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  #21  
Old 06-06-2010, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Emaretta View Post
sigh...so true so true... I've brought this up to him many times when he asks why i want to see my other bf or why i don't get mad at him like i do my primary...and i say it's because he respects my freedom and he knows he doesn't own me. But my primary just sees this as my bf being desperate and just taking what he can get and that he can allow me to have other lovers b/c he doesn't really love me like him.
um, this is a bit hypocritical no? he says that he doesn't own you, yet he ALLOWS you to have other lovers? how can he say that your other love doesn't love you as much, how would he know that? No one knows that and it's irrelevant really
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  #22  
Old 06-06-2010, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Emaretta View Post
yeah i'm worried of that too. Especially since I think his negative opinions of my secondary are founded in jealousy so why would anyone else be any different? And when I say, ok, let's stay i stop talking to my secondary...and let's say I meet someone next week...then what? And my primary just says well that isn't going to happen...not a good answer i think...

I have a friend who lives in seattle actually that has sent me to their online forum lol
I never got a chance to go to a meet up because my ex was so controlling... It seemed like a lot of fun. While I would always advise you to be careful... the Seattle folks did seemed really nice. They also seemed to be well known in the poly world. As I stated earlier... I had to leave my ex. When I told him of my plans to leave he became violent. I knew then that his jealousy and controlling ways were just warning signs. I don't want to scare you... your guy may not be like my ex. I just want you to really try and figure out if being with him is worth all the stress. I spent the last three years of a four year relationship dealing with a similar man.... in the end I just had to get out. I have no regrets about leaving.. It was hard at first... but now I have an awesome primary and great supportive friends. I'm still new and growing so I can't brag too much...lol. I just don't want you to give up on something that makes you happy because some man tells you 'he knows best'.

be careful and good luck
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  #23  
Old 06-06-2010, 06:29 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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I really hate that kind of arrogant, holier-than-thou attitude. First, I think it's crap to think that any person is better than any other person. So I think it's even more crap to think that being associated with some so-called-lower-person brings you down.

You've got two guys here. One is perfectly willing to share you with whomever makes your heart dance, is kind to you, accepting and not controlling. The other is telling you what to do, who to associate yourself with, questioning your judgement...

I know what I'd do!

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Originally Posted by Emaretta View Post
I don't know Mono b/c these same friends talk to my secondary all the time and are his friends. I asked my primary why would they still talk to him if they didn't like him or are they all just being two-faced? And i've known my secondary now for 10 months so I don't think the new thing is still there.
Have these friends said anything negative about your secondary to you, or just to your primary? Is it possible primary's making up the things they're supposedly saying about secondary?

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Originally Posted by Emaretta View Post
sigh...so true so true... I've brought this up to him many times when he asks why i want to see my other bf or why i don't get mad at him like i do my primary...and i say it's because he respects my freedom and he knows he doesn't own me. But my primary just sees this as my bf being desperate and just taking what he can get and that he can allow me to have other lovers b/c he doesn't really love me like him.
There's another red flag, saying that the secondary is only dating you because he's desperate -- which sounds to me like he's putting you down, that someone would only go out with you because they're desperate. But if you've got two guys wanting to be with you, then you're obviously very "relationship-worthy."

Actually, it's reminiscent of an abusive personality -- the whole "you can't leave me because no one else would have you" kind of crap. Except, you've already proven that wrong, so he's got to make it sound like this other guy isn't worth anything. But if you have feelings for him, then he's probably worth something to you
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  #24  
Old 06-06-2010, 02:44 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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......... i really think he's just saying them to make him look like a villian...and i think at this point, he honestly believes the lies himself. He's brainwashed himself into thinking what a horrible man he his and just refuses to look at him with new eyes.
Yep Emaretta - I suspect (as I said at first) that you are right on.
And I see the other posters have pointed out lots of support for that theory too. From all we can see from your writing it seems pretty typical.

Autumnaltone hits on a lot of sensible likelihoods !

My only caution was just intended to prevent you from making some 'assumptions' - which you seems to be doing - and discovering later that there was some substance to primary - or anyone's - concerns. people usually put on their best faces in the beginning and sometimes uninvolved parties are better at seeing through them because of their distance.

From your writing I'd guess that you are navigating in a particular 'culture' where this kind of crap is pretty much par for the course. A lot of games, backstabbing etc. It is what it is. Hopefully at some point you can extricate yourself from this and attach to a culture where sincerity, honesty and compassion rather than competition are the norm. But until then just watch your back.

GS
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  #25  
Old 06-06-2010, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
um, this is a bit hypocritical no? he says that he doesn't own you, yet he ALLOWS you to have other lovers? how can he say that your other love doesn't love you as much, how would he know that? No one knows that and it's irrelevant really
I agree RP, but my primary is still in the mono view of love. That when you truly love someone you don't want to share. He keeps saying he loves me too much to share me. Of course I tell him sharing implies you own me and he's tired of hearing me talk about the ownership issues. And also my primary has been with me almost 3 years and has been through a lot of difficult times with me, so he sees my new bf as NOT going through all this with me hence he hasn't put in the "work" for me...oy vey! Now in the last 10 months my secondary HAS been through a lot of crap...dealing with my inability to see him as much b/c of the feelings of my primary, receiving nasty emails and texts from my primary, listening to my primary bad mouth him to other people...oh yes even my secondary's friends have asked him why he just doesn't walk away from me. But my secondary and myself and no issues with each other...it's just others that have issues with us...
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  #26  
Old 06-06-2010, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by girlcaleb View Post
I never got a chance to go to a meet up because my ex was so controlling... It seemed like a lot of fun. While I would always advise you to be careful... the Seattle folks did seemed really nice. They also seemed to be well known in the poly world. As I stated earlier... I had to leave my ex. When I told him of my plans to leave he became violent. I knew then that his jealousy and controlling ways were just warning signs. I don't want to scare you... your guy may not be like my ex. I just want you to really try and figure out if being with him is worth all the stress. I spent the last three years of a four year relationship dealing with a similar man.... in the end I just had to get out. I have no regrets about leaving.. It was hard at first... but now I have an awesome primary and great supportive friends. I'm still new and growing so I can't brag too much...lol. I just don't want you to give up on something that makes you happy because some man tells you 'he knows best'.

be careful and good luck
thank you caleb...my husband was actually like this. Jealous to the point of insanity and violence. That's why now my freedom is more important to me than ever. I've always been a flirtatious soul and i've lost relationships b/c i had developed interest in others, not b/c i stopped caring fro my primaries. But I had no idea this other option was out there. So i will most definitely NOT give up on this for myself. I've been through 2 men who tried to constrict me, never again. And i have told my primary that my freedom is more important to me than anyone or anything and I love myself the most before anyone else. So we either need to work this out, or we will have to part ways which is really my worst nightmare b/c we love each other so dearly.
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  #27  
Old 06-06-2010, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
I really hate that kind of arrogant, holier-than-thou attitude. First, I think it's crap to think that any person is better than any other person. So I think it's even more crap to think that being associated with some so-called-lower-person brings you down.
I agree...but my primary says he's lied and is a drunk after one incident he had too much to drink and there were words exchanged which was in the very beginning and nothing of the sort has happened since.

Quote:
You've got two guys here. One is perfectly willing to share you with whomever makes your heart dance, is kind to you, accepting and not controlling. The other is telling you what to do, who to associate yourself with, questioning your judgement...

I know what I'd do!
well we live together and i do love him very much. I enjoy our home together and am not ready to give up on this since I do believe people can change their views on this.

Quote:
Have these friends said anything negative about your secondary to you, or just to your primary? Is it possible primary's making up the things they're supposedly saying about secondary?
When the very first incident arose...I said why if this involves me would this "Friend" come to you and not me...are they just trying to cause trouble? He said they felt awkward coming to me and at the threat of leaving him he would NOT tell me who this person was so that I may speak with them directly. And furthermore there was a picture in question that my primary could never reproduce for me. All of it seemed very contrived to me.
The other problem is that my secondary relationship is totally hidden. My primary and i are well known in our area and 95% of people we know think we are the perfect monogamous couple and for his career it's better that way. So normally when I would just go straight to people myself to ask what's going on, I can't do this b/c I don't want to bring up any questions about me and my secondary if no one is aware of what's going on. So i'm at the complete trust of my primary and secondary which of course puts me in the middle of having to believe one over the other. And quite honestly with how my primary had been acting, it's hard to blindly trust him now.



Quote:
There's another red flag, saying that the secondary is only dating you because he's desperate -- which sounds to me like he's putting you down, that someone would only go out with you because they're desperate. But if you've got two guys wanting to be with you, then you're obviously very "relationship-worthy."

Actually, it's reminiscent of an abusive personality -- the whole "you can't leave me because no one else would have you" kind of crap. Except, you've already proven that wrong, so he's got to make it sound like this other guy isn't worth anything. But if you have feelings for him, then he's probably worth something to you
My primary sees him as desperate not b/c i'm not good enough but b/c i'm soooo good that he will take whatever he can get with me, ie sharing me. He thinks I'm just sooo out of his league that he'll take whatever I give him, seeing him as a chump for being with a woman who goes out with other men which is how my primary feels as well. It also doesn't help that he talks to his mono friends who all say I'm crazy to be throwing him away, and no guy would put up with how i'm behaving. He feels weak and less of a man that his woman is out galavanting with other men while he sits at home alone and i expect him to welcome me when i get home and cuddle with him in our bed after some man's hand and lips were all over me.
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  #28  
Old 06-06-2010, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
Yep Emaretta - I suspect (as I said at first) that you are right on.
And I see the other posters have pointed out lots of support for that theory too. From all we can see from your writing it seems pretty typical.

Autumnaltone hits on a lot of sensible likelihoods !

My only caution was just intended to prevent you from making some 'assumptions' - which you seems to be doing - and discovering later that there was some substance to primary - or anyone's - concerns. people usually put on their best faces in the beginning and sometimes uninvolved parties are better at seeing through them because of their distance.

From your writing I'd guess that you are navigating in a particular 'culture' where this kind of crap is pretty much par for the course. A lot of games, backstabbing etc. It is what it is. Hopefully at some point you can extricate yourself from this and attach to a culture where sincerity, honesty and compassion rather than competition are the norm. But until then just watch your back.

GS
yes GS...although we have worked around adult clubs, swingers, etc, our friends are all pretty vanilla mono. We only have one friend that has been living happily with 2 gf's for the last 6 years, yet my primary will not talk to him about his lifestyle. I don't know why. But i have no support network which is why I joined this forum. I wish I had discovered this sooner b/c I have made many mistakes that have made my situation more difficult right now, but I didn't realize I was poly when all of this started, so hind sight is always 20/20. I've found this amazing network now and can only move on from this point forward.
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  #29  
Old 06-06-2010, 08:23 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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The other problem is that my secondary relationship is totally hidden. My primary and i are well known in our area and 95% of people we know think we are the perfect monogamous couple and for his career it's better that way.
I understand the need to keep your relationship private. But you're allowed to have friends, right? So you ask your mutual friends what they think of Secondary as a person, "because you're friends with him and your Primary has concerns about that, and you want to know if they're justified."

I would add that you insist your primary tell you who is saying these things. Tell him that given the circumstances, his word is not enough, and that you believe he's making them up to sabotage your relationship.

Keeping in mind that your friends believe Secondary is just a friend, there's no good reason for them to keep it a secret from you if they think he's bad news. And if he's so rotten, why are they friends with him?

Basically, you have to refuse to believe him, and make it clear that you're not going to tolerate his poisonous behaviour.

Quote:
My primary sees him as desperate not b/c i'm not good enough but b/c i'm soooo good that he will take whatever he can get with me, ie sharing me. He feels weak and less of a man that his woman is out galavanting with other men while he sits at home alone
Ahh, gotchya. So in other words, classic insecurity. He's afraid that you're going to leave him, and the only way he can see to prevent that is to spoil it for you. Which means, whether he intends it or not, he'll spoil it for you no matter who the other guy is.

This definitely has nothing to do with the other guy, it's all about your primary. Since I don't know him, I don't know the approach to take. But the result is you need to make him see that his objection is not to this particular other man, it's an objection to your lifestyle in general. That he needs to deal with his feelings about what you're doing from his own perspective, how it relates to his life, rather than projecting it onto the other man.

He also needs to understand that even if he's successful in driving away the other guy, it will only cause you to become resentful and that you will later get together with someone different and the cycle will repeat. That you're not poly just because you met this other guy, and driving away this other guy won't make you stop being poly.
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  #30  
Old 08-18-2012, 02:47 PM
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DO all of your other friends dislike him? This guy may be trouble... I've been in the situation before (not with relationships but with incredibly close friendships) where nobody seemed to like my two closest friends and they turned out to be emotionally manipulating and abusing me and I didn't realise it at all. My family and close friends saw it at once and did not like them at all.
Or your primary could be jealous.
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