New and a bit confused!

Hello everyone! Let me preface this introduction by saying; I’m writing this as a man whom before yesterday had never heard the word polyamory, much less understanding it is a lifestyle for some. I will also apologize in advance for the length. I just think it’s necessary to understand the complete situation in order to receive proper feedback!
First a little bit about the parties involved. Me and my wife are in our early 40’s and have been married for 10 years. We are pretty boring to be honest. We both have normal jobs, I’m in real estate and she is a nurse. We have a wonderful 10-year-old daughter. We have a pretty normal, average everyday life. I love my wife and consider her my best friend. We have what I would call a downtrodden sex life. When it happens, it’s great and we fulfill each other. However, like so many after taking care of our daughter, home, work and everything else it seems like we have lost something. The drive to do it really. This is probably more me than her. Hey I’m a middle aged man…don’t judge me. ;-)
My wife and I have a friend, let’s call her “Stacy”. Stacy has been a friend of ours for a little over a year. We met Stacy and her (soon to be ex) husband through some mutual friends. We live in a small community, but are all transplants from larger ones so we had a lot in common and hit it off immediately. Not so much with her husband but with her. So Stacy and her husband are going through a divorce. Stacy has a daughter close to our daughters age but this is her second marriage and the little girl is from her first one. We love hanging out with Stacy. It’s hard for me and my wife to find friends we actually like hanging out with so finding her in the same town as us was wonderful.
So here is where things start taking a turn. This Thanksgiving, Stacy’s daughter was going to be spending the holiday with her dad out of town. Like I said earlier her and her current husband are going through a divorce. She is in the process of buying a home, however until she does she is still living with her soon to be ex. Not wanting her to have to stay all weekend in the house with him in this uncomfortable situation me and my wife invite her over to stay with us. She has spent the night over here a bunch of times so it was really no big deal. So Thanksgiving evening we are sitting around and drinking some wine. Stacy was getting quite a buzz and so was my wife. I notice that Stacy has her hand on my wife’s leg, she has her comfy house shorts on. No big deal, but I had never seen her do this before. A little more drinking and we decide to call it a night. Me and my wife lay down and Stacy is in the restaroom. My wife gets up to make sure she has everything she needs…. after a few minutes and she hasn’t come back to bed I get up to investigate. Well the door is shut but not completely closed. There stand my wife and Stacy kissing. I was shocked. I walked back down the hall and sat on the side of the bed. I began to get really angry. I was like, I just caught my wife cheating. I got up walked back to the door and they were still kissing. I opened the door and Stacy pulled away and looked shocked. My wife smiled at me. I couldn’t believe it. Whatever the look on my wife’s face was I had never seen it before. Instead of blowing up and getting mad I just said “If you’re going to do that, then you both need to come in here and do it” motioning toward the bedroom. Well next think I know we are all in the bedroom and having a great time. I’m trying to keep things evenly spaced out for both girls and at the same time giving them some time as well. It was one of the best nights of my life. I was very nervous at first. I mean this is two women to please…talk about pressure. They both seemed to want more of me than each other, which surprised me being that I caught them kissing first. So anyway without going overboard with details, that happened. The next day Stacy went home and it was all me and my wife could talk about. My wife said she has never been turned on so much as watching me with Stacy while Stacy was playing with and kissing her. In a million years I never thought I would hear my wife utter those words. The next day we called Stacy and ask her to come back over. We all sat, like adults, and laughed and discussed what had happened. Long story short…. Stacy stayed over again Friday night with a repeat. Then again Saturday night with a repeat. I’ll let you fill in the blanks for the next two nights. It was great!
Now here in lies my question. Last night me and my wife are talking about these turn of events. It seems to be all we have talked about the last 4 days. We really care for Stacy and want to make this a more regular thing. We jokingly were asking “Is Stacy our girlfriend now?” I started doing a little online reading and here I am. How do we go about asking Stacy if she would be interested in being with both of us as a couple? I know it happened 3 times, however I’m not sure how she feels about it or if we were just a sort of wild weekend fling for her. We don’t want to freak her out and send her running because we value her friendship. If it comes down to one or the other, we still want to be her friends. Maybe we are chomping at the bit a little, and should give her some time. However, we handle this if must be handled delicately. We are in a very small town. It is not full of people who will accept this type of relationship and there are our kids to think of. How in the world could we keep them out of the loop? Anyone who has children knows, the see more than they let on. Our daughter and Stacy’s daughter are the most important things in all of our lives and we don’t want to cause them any harm. I can’t speak for my wife but to me it feels like something was woken inside me that may have been there, but was asleep. It in no way diminishes the way I feel for my wife, if anything the last few days my feelings for her have been supercharged! I’m not sure if this in “normal” or not, but any input would be greatly appreciated. I was hoping some of you who have been through similar situations and circumstances could maybe help guide us through this exciting yet awkward time. Thanks in advance and thank you for your time.

So long story short, you and wife had some Thanksgiving threesome time with friend Stacy. I think it's normal to be riding a "high" after a positive new experience.

Now that Thanksgiving is over, you are not sure how Stacy feels about it.

• Was it just a sort of wild weekend fling for her? End of story?

• Is a poly relationship something she wants to pursue here?
  • With just you?
  • Just your wife?
  • Both?

• If yes, is this the best time to pursue it in?
  
  • Is it better to wait til active parenting is over? Since you have concerns about the kids.
  • Is it better to wait til divorce is final? Since she's dealing in divorce right now.
• Is this the best place?
  • You live in a small community. Does she have the same concerns with being "out" as you do?
  • She doesn't yet have her new post-divorce home established. (Do not move her in in a rush only to regret it later.)

Since you have all these questions, I think the simplest and most direct way to get answers is to ask Stacy if she's willing to come over and talk about what happened. So everyone can put their cards on the table and see what lines up and what does not.

If not something you all are interested in, you can let the idea go, and enjoy being friends who once had a wild weekend.

If there is interest, then you can have subsequent conversations over time. Like do you all have the skills required? How about resources? (time, money, etc) How do you see it ending if it has to end? And so on. Enjoy the "whee" but take it one thing at a time. It doesn't all have to be solved in one talk.

Galagirl

GG-thanks for your response.

We are going to do just what you said. All sit down together and talk. I'm hoping that it doesn't send her "running for the hills".

My wife is pretty adamant that if this is to work for her, then we will all be involved. At this point she is not comfortable at all with the thought of 2 going off to ourselves for romance. Not at first at least. So we just need to sit down and all talk it over and see where she is with all of this.

There is one thing you said.

If there is interest, then you can have subsequent conversations over time. Like do you all have the skills required?

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I'm curious as to what you mean by "skills required".

Resources we are fine with. We are not rich by any means but are stable. Time isn't really an issue. The new house Stacy is buying is also just about 10 min away from ours so that's all the better if this works!

Thanks again for the response!

Newones

Newones said:

I'm curious as to what you mean by "skills required".

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Hi, newones. I was in a triad for a while (~6 months.) It was really nice while it lasted. I'm still with the male partner (it was also mff). Skills that helped in our triad were:

• open, honest, clear communication among all parties
• ability to communicate without added drama
• ability to consider the needs/wants of the other partners, even when that conflicts with your own needs/wants
• willingness to work on one's self (especially in regards to jealousies and insecurities which, in my experience, will arise.)

I'll also add that we found it really important to feed each individual relationship (Me+Blue, Blue+Snow, Snow+Me.) This meant alone time with each couple and yes, couple's sexy time, too. Yes, it can be scary for you and your wife, but limiting all time to "group" time doesn't allow the individuals to connect, in my opinion. It ends up limiting the relationship.

We made a lot of mistakes, some that we easily corrected/recovered from...some that were more critical. In the end, our triad just really had an expiration date. Snow & I were adjusting to major changes in our lives...hers even more recent and more significant than mine. That's my caveat with this relationship you're considering: Stacy's life is in transition...lots of changes physically & emotionally for her. What she wants when she's on the other side of these changes, may not include either of you. I'd agree that considering how an ending might look is as important as considering how the relationship might look.

Of course, if you're just wanting a temporary fwb type situation, that may be easier to navigate than a full-on triad

Communication skills.

• Can you say what you mean? Verbally, nonverbally? Broadcast the message clearly in a way the other person gets it? What are your communication styles? Do those play nice together?
  
• How are your listening skills? Some people have poor listening skills.
  
• What about your paraverbal skills? Not what you say, but HOW you say it? Would non-violent communication help?

Conflict resolution style.

• Are they compatible?

Perspective. Can you see things from the other guy's POV? Or not?

Emotional self management. Can you take a time out and cool your own jets so you can respond rather than react to things? Not being able o see over your own emotion could impair the other things -- perspective, communication, conflict resolution, etc.

Knowledge. Are you guys poly educated enough to avoid common pitfalls?

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html
http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell
https://www.morethantwo.com

WHAT ARE YOU SIGNING UP FOR?
Do you all agree on the open model you will practice and understand its limitations? How will it change over time if it needs to change?

Baggage

Do you guys come with baggage that needs to be resolved first? To me, this would be a yellow or red flag.

My wife is pretty adamant that if this is to work for her, then we will all be involved. At this point she is not comfortable at all with the thought of 2 going off to ourselves for romance. Not at first at least.

Click to expand...

Why adament? What's she afraid will happen? Exactly how does she plan to get comfortable with you two being alone if you two are never alone? This is an old post, but perhaps that sheds some light on the need for each leg of the triangle to have time on their own. If you can't be ok with that before going in, maybe it's enough to not go in for a triad right now and work on that issue first?

Intensity of the "poly math"

Are you prepared for the intensity?

In a 2 people thing, depending on how you want to count there are layers of relationship.

SOLO (2)

• you <--> you (<-- how you relate to yourself. Some people lie to themselves or talk "less than" in their heads. This colors their other relationships.)
  
• wife <--> wife

SINGLES (1)

• you <--> wife

DOUBLES (1)

• (you + wife) as a team.

Not so bad. 4 layers to juggle.

In a V where you would be the shared sweetie and the ladies are not lovers it intensifies.

SOLOS (3)

• you <--> you
• wife <--> wife
• GF <--> GF

SINGLES (3)

• you <--> wife
• you <--> GF
  [*]wife <--> GF

DOUBLES (3)

• (you + wife) as a team.
• (you + GF) as a team
  [*](wife + GF) at least polite to each other, if a V.

TRIPLES (4)

• GF + (you + wife) <---how Gf relates to you and wife as a couple
• wife + (you + GF)
• you + (Wife + GF)
• (You + Wife+ GF)<-- how you interact as a group, not necessarily all sharing sex together

Boom. Suddenly went to 15 layers. More intense than 4.

I believe a polyship is only as healthy as all the little "mini relationships" inside. When problems occur, some people can't figure out what layer the problems originate in, and what layers are getting "domino effect." And if they don't have good perspective, conflict resolution skills or communication skills it can blow up or people give up before they can sort it out.

A triad is essential 3 V's stacked up on each other. You are ALL hinges. You are ALL lovers. You are ALL metamours. I'm too tired too write it out, but I can tell you it is a bit more than (3x15 =45) layers.

So... going from a 2 person (4 layer thing) to a 45+ layer thing... that's a huge leap. It takes up time and energy to maintain that many intense relationships even when things are going well. Add a monkey wrench in there like "wife is uncomfortable for X reason. She doesn't want us to be alone" and anywhere wife's name shows up, the effect could be felt.

I highlight her name in the V example. 9 out of 15 layers would feel some domino or ripple effect. Imagine it in a triad.

Emergency preparedness

Some people do not think ahead for this: "How do we agree to handle it if there is a break up?" Original groupings or all the way down to everyone single?

What if it starts out triad, but it wants to be a "V" -- can each of you be ok being broken up with while the others continue together?

Conclusion

That's what I mean by "resources." There's going to be nonhuman resources (ex: money, time) and there's going to be some human resources (ex: communication skills, conflict resolution skills, ability to deal with poly math, etc).

Part of the joy in relationships is the unfolding and the discovery process. Just don't bite off more than you can chew or jump in unprepared. If this group wants to be together as a triad, go in knowing that it is one of the hardest models to attempt. Make sure you know what you are signing up for, where the pitfalls may be, and that all are willing AND able to go there with enough resources. YKWIM?

Galagirl

As always for a couple looking to "add" someone to their relationship and limit that person's interaction to only when it can be all three together, I highly recommend you ALL read "So someone called you a unicorn hunter.

That you have already set up rules for engaging, sex, etc. without the input of your "third," you've already wandered into the territory of couple privilege, treating your "third" as if she is an object or a child rather than an adult with her own wants and needs, etc. Since she's not allowed to have interactions with either of you separately, will the two of you refrain from interactions when she is around? Of course not. If you expect an emotional attachment, as opposed to once-in-a-while hot threesome sex, those kinds of stilted expectations feel pretty dehumanizing and unbalanced. These are common mistakes to people new to poly, and are part of the (many) reasons triads often fail so spectacularly.

It is also worth saying that if either of you are uncomfortable with the idea of one-on-one time, intimate sexy time or just hanging out, you probably are going to run into some serious issues with poly that you should be prepared to deal with. People tend to think if they "do it together," it will stave off jealousy and fears. That isn't how it actually works in reality, however.

Take some time to really read up on poly in general, but triads specifically. It is a fun fantasy, but it's very, very difficult to pull off. Just do a search here on "Triads," and "unicorns," and you'll see a lot of the difficulties (which can help you not make the same mistakes).

Hi Newones,

I think it is hopeful that the three of you can form a blissful triad, but the key thing, probably, is to take it slow and learn as much as you can along the way. And of course, make sure Stacy is onboard with the idea!

If you'll keep us posted on how things are going, we'll be able to give additional advice. I hope the talk with Stacy goes well.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.