Advice on figuring out needs & course of action

Hi all ! Nice to meet you. Brand new member here, and other than a post in the introductory thread, this is my first one, yay!

Basically, this is going to be a monolith of a post, so bear with me. Anyone who makes it to the end gets brownie points, people who then take the trouble to respond doubly so ^^.

So a brief history of me relationshipwise. I had a long term mono relationship (5 years) when I was quite young, that turned open, then mono, then broke. After that I had a string of casual and less casual lovers, sometimes one, sometimes more at a time, and extended periods of being very contentedly single. I ended up with a wonderful lover, who is still one of my best friends today, and fell for an exceptionally monogamus guy at the same time, who made me choose him and only him versus not him at all. I was very happy with him for some time, we worked through issues and I learned a lot, but in the end there were too many things I was missing, and since he was completely inflexible on the mono front, I could not get these things elsewhere, and for that and many other reasons, I left after about 3 and a half years of being with him.

For a long time now, I've had a mayor crush on a friend, which has in recent months been turning into more. However, both of us have recently broken our long term relationships (his was 8 years), and so we are very careful, being friends first, prioritising that bond, and lovers second. However, I find myself falling for him more and more, feeling like I am back at that point with my ex, because again, this is a deeply monogamous man. He has not asked me to choose, he wants me to be me, but he's also said he cannot imagine himself dealing with having a long-term connection with me while I have connections elsewhere. Although he cares for me a lot, and has been growing closer to me, he is still very much processing his break up, and has some trouble detangling whether his feelings for me are just reboundy, because being with me feels nice, comfortable and natural and I adore him, or more durable in their own right. Although the relationship with his ex is very definitely done, obviously he still loves and misses her. To me, that is not scary, once I love someone I never stop, whatever that person ends up being to me, or even whether they are in my life at all. I do not mind him loving her, to me it seems natural and right, I would be scared if he didn't. However, for him loving someone excludes loving anyone else in that way,and he feels very conflicted about developing strong feelings for me while he still loves her very much. Even though it sometimes hurts me, I care for him so much I am honestly happy to give him the time and space to work it out, walk beside him, and enjoy what we have now, slowly, carefully and respectfully. If he finds in the end he wants to walk a different road it will hurt, but I cannot blame or resent him for it. We've both been very open and honest, and we chat a lot about these things. Lets call this complication number one.

Complication number two is that I am trying to figure out what I want and need from my next relationship, whether with him or others, what is truly essential for my happiness, and what is not. Reflecting back on my relationships, I see a clear pattern of a VERY strong need for security, love and safe harbour on one hand, the side of me that is happy being monogamous and being homey, and a profound wild streak on the other side; I have a need to explore, push my boundaries, kick myself out of my comfort zone often. My life needs to be in motion, if I am in the same situation too long with no challenge or change my spark dies and I become very uhappy. This side also has a strong need for intensity, which manifests in some pretty intense exercise habits (weight lifting, endurance cycling) but also a profound kinky side that loves impact play, fighting, biting, and wearing bruises and welts puclicly, with pride and reverence. The problem so far is that these two needs/sides of me are so opposite I seem to always have one, but not the other in my relationships, and so I grow and develop in one way until the lack of growth in the other becomes so hurtful I cannot go on, say goodbye to the people I love, and go the other way. I have not been able to strike a balance. Right now, I have no idea whether a person could be safe harbour AND challenger for me, I certainly have not met him yet. So ultimately this leaves me with either finding a mate that does feed both sides of the spark, or lloving multiple mates.

So lets rope this back to my current situation with my mono lover and friend. I have no clue whether he could be that person, as I have not had a chance to try truly being with him. I'd love to grow closer to him and explore that. If he decides he wants that, too, I'd also like to chat to him about the needs underlying his ultimate goals. On the surface we seem partly compatible, partly not, but it's been a long time since I met someone whom I like, respect and appreciate this much. I'd love to figure things out with him. Not something he and I are going to do tomorrow, or even next month, but it makes sense to me to think ahead and do my homework. I don't know how flexible he will turn out to be when it comes down to it, what he would be willing to explore. I am also unsure whether my wish to explore poly is purely because I have not found someone that actually fits all of me, or whether it is a more primary need to just have multiple connections. I've never really had the opportunity to find out. Basically, I do not know whether I am poly-flexible, or just plain poly.

As my life has been a total rollercoaster in recent months, becoming homeless, unemployed and single basically all at once and moving internationally twice in one month (tried to leave the place I currently live, but failed, haha! Too many unfinished stories), for now I am taking things easy, enjoying our time together but not getting too enmeshed. I too, need more space to figure things out before I dive in. However, being me means following my heart, and right now, my heart says him, and only him. I've told him that, but also been very clear that I cannot promise whether that will last, and if it does, whether it'll be enough. I am trying very hard to be open, honest, vulnerable, yet strong in my commmunication of wishes, needs and boundaries. If anyone has any advice to give, or any experiences to share, I would be profoundly greatful!

Love, and even more browniepoints,
TheRockierRoad

I can see a lot of ways this could end in heartbreak, but as long as you both keep up not only the open and honest communication, but also the honest self-assessments, I don't see why it isn't worth a shot.

Hi TheRockierRoad,

Re (from OP):

"Reflecting back on my relationships, I see a clear pattern of a *very* strong need for security, love and safe harbour on one hand, the side of me that is happy being monogamous and being homey, and a profound wild streak on the other side; I have a need to explore, push my boundaries, kick myself out of my comfort zone often ... if I am in the same situation too long with no challenge or change my spark dies and I become very unhappy. This side also has a strong need for intensity, which manifests in some pretty intense exercise habits but also a profound kinky side that loves impact play, fighting, biting, and wearing bruises and welts puclicly, with pride and reverence. The problem so far is that these two needs/sides of me are so opposite I seem to always have one, but not the other in my relationships, and so I grow and develop in one way until the lack of growth in the other becomes so hurtful I cannot go on, say goodbye to the people I love, and go the other way."

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Have you told your friend this?

kdt26417 said:

Hi TheRockierRoad,

Re (from OP):


Have you told your friend this?

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Yes, in the sense that we've had discussions in which these things have come up, and I wrote him a letter that basically communicates this and some other things in a more structured way, like it's written here, that I left on his pillow this morning (I tend to do that to help me think things through clearly, and communicate them without getting lost on the way).

@ AutumnLeaves, thanks for your response, as well!

Sounds like you've communicated it to him in a couple of ways; that's good. Has he responded to it, this need you have to maintain a tame side and a wild side, and if he has, what did he say?

I don't mean to nag; I am just zeroing in on what I think is the core issue.

He's followed my wild side on some occasions, not on others. I generally feel safe to let myself get a little wild around him, but not too much as of yet. As to the letter; no response yet, as I left it this morning and he's at work . I see him again over the weekend, I suppose we'll chat about it then & I'll get back to you .

Okay, that sounds good.

I can totally relate. Being kinky AND poly definitely has it's downsides. My only advice is to not settle for less than you need. Been there, done that. No matter how great it was in the beginning it usually didn't end well. I hope your friend can be what you need him to be.

vinsanity0 said:

I can totally relate. Being kinky AND poly definitely has it's downsides. My only advice is to not settle for less than you need. Been there, done that. No matter how great it was in the beginning it usually didn't end well. I hope your friend can be what you need him to be.

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Thank you for your response. I have also been there, and done that, and it ended it me breaking the heart of a very good man who did nothing wrong into a million little pieces. Not an experience I want to have again, to be sure. Hence a shitload of soulsearching and posting here, asking friends to think with me, building and exploring sloooooooowly etc...

It will be really helpful to hear what he says to the letter.

I'm also poly and kinky, of the two, depending on the person, I could potentially live without sexual poly (in the past, one of my longest, most loved partners was a non-sexual partner), but I definitely can't live without kink. That lack in my life made me feel like I was dying.

The thing that stuck out to me the most was that while you did learn and grow and find a lot of good times and love in your first guy, you did ultimately have to leave him because of his inflexibility in poly. Now, had he met your needs sexually, was there anything else, any other absolute NEED that he wasn't meeting? If there was, then I think I'd tentatively say that maybe you do really need to stay poly to have all of your needs fulfilled.

I also really really worry that you're playing with fire with your friend, given the pain he's in about his ex-girlfriend. For the record, I don't think you're doing anything *wrong* and I absolutely see that you're trying to go slowly and be careful. Buuuuuuuut...I worry about your heart. I worry that as much as you try to go slowly and be careful, that your heart is galloping off (who can stop hearts from doing that?) and that it's going to get broken, even if your mind is trying to be as cautious as you can.

So one thing I'd tentatively suggest is maybe to really try to put the brakes on how much you see him, and how much energy you direct towards him, until he's had another few months to get over his girlfriend. I wouldn't say "stop seeing him entirely", just...if there are any particular activities or crafts or something that you really love, making more of an effort to really put time into those things and set up dates with yourself that feel awesome, while you navigate through this tricky time and try to get the time to pass, to see where you are.

Anyways, looking forward to hearing what he says back, and welcome!

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. In regards to my heart it's pretty much too late I'm afriad, has been for a while now, but I have been trying to focus more on other things, like organising small stuff and getting more involved in my local kink community, funnnily enough, and not have contact with him much while I am not actually there.I will continue trying to improve that bit and let it be .

No decent update as of yet. I felt there'd been enough heaviness and drama for a bit so just enjoyed him and us as we are. Things are definitely growing closer, I'll leave the actual explicit chat be for a couple of weeks. Thanks all, I'll post back at some point about it .

RR, I can only offer you that you are not alone. I was always poly, but hid it because it was not the norm. I am very kinky at times, ok a lot of times, but am also homey. My wife jokes about me being the better parent, etc. But I am so much more comfortable with two women in my life (been there). And don't tell me to act like a Puritan, they are all dead.
Take your time, but do it your way! find a guy, or two or guy and girl, whatever and if you want your home decorated in black and read and kinky... call me we do that stuff, nice spanking bench, embroidered leatherwear... have fun

Being poly and kinky can be tough but so worth the e#ort when the pieces come together.
Don't give up on him we were all monogamous at some point, it's the same for kink everyone starts vanilla. Keep communicating with him, keep expanding his exposure to both. With time love and experimentation he will find himself and learn to let go of his socially taught boundries. Good luck.

@TheWind, thanks for your encouragement.

thequickbrownfox said:

Being poly and kinky can be tough but so worth the e#ort when the pieces come together.
Don't give up on him we were all monogamous at some point, it's the same for kink everyone starts vanilla. Keep communicating with him, keep expanding his exposure to both. With time love and experimentation he will find himself and learn to let go of his socially taught boundries. Good luck.

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First off, thanks for taking the trouble to respond, and wishing me luck, it is much appreciated! However, I do feel this post is a bit disrespectful. In my world vew, monogamous people are not poly people repressing their true feelings, and vanilla people are not kinky people repressing theirs. Although some of them might be, many are genuinely wired monogamously or vanilla. That is just as valid a way to live your life as my wish to live with my heart wide open, even though I might already have someone in my life, or my bone-deep craving for kink. I would also like to debunk your 'everyone starts vanilla/monogamous'. You know how everyone has a childhood crush/puppy love? Mine was with two girls, who both were my 'girlfriend' at the same time for a bit, this was kissing and no further stage though, after which I found out I am unfortunately not bisexual, but hey, it was lovely then! I was also kinky long before I realised sex existed, experimenting with and loving how my body responded to pain as early as age 4 or 5, and extensively exploring impact play before I lost my virginity. If anything, I think respect for eachothers wiring will be the way forward. Experimentation is great, it's epic, and I am very much enjoying having him explore certain things with me, but only up to a point he's comfortable with, a point that fits HIM, not me or my wishes, and I will respect and honour any boundaries we find together. If those boundaries are not livable for me, I should give up the idea of being with him, rather than push him towards being something he's not. I adore being the person that has him open his eyes and see parts of himself he'd not previously explored, but it's a thin line towards pushing someone to change, and I have no wish to do that.

I don't think thequickbrownfox meant to say or imply that monogamous people are secretly repressed polyamorous people, or that vanilla people are secretly repressed kinky people. I think they meant what you address later on, that all--or at least many, I wouldn't say "all" personally--of us who now are acting polyamorous and kinky once acted monogamous and vanilla.

I say "act" because as you note, I believe that for *some*, monoamory and polyamory are "hard-wired" romantic orientations, just as heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, and a number of others are "hard-wired" sexual orientations. Kink might also be a hard-wired preference. There's debate about whether polyamory/monoamory are hard-wired, and I'm sure there is about kink as well.

For *some* of us, though, they absolutely seem to be something that is set within us just like our sexual orientations, gender identity, whether we like pizza... etc. But for others, it doesn't seem to be; some people consciously choose to live polyamorously and kinky even if it isn't the way they would typically skew.

By the same token, some of us who are living polyamorously and kinky once were unaware that those were options, so we made the conscious choice to act like we were monoamorous and vanilla even though it was counter to our "hard-wiring." I didn't even fully realize polyamory was a thing that existed until a little over two years ago, but I knew at age 10 or 11 that being married to or romantically involved with one person and one person only for the rest of my life made absolutely zero sense, and I used to rant at the authors of so-called "teen romance" novels for always resolving the love triangles in those stories by having the girl choose one of the boys, when to me it would have been so much more logical for her to just have both of them.

I've known about kink longer; I've known with certainty for about a decade that I'm submissive. And I vaguely remember making up stories at about 10 or 11 in which I was submitting to someone, or had my hands bound, or so on. At 10 or 11, I didn't know kink was a "thing". At 35 or so, I found out it is, realized it's part of my hard-wiring, and recognized myself as submissive, but I continued living vanilla because I was with vanilla guys (consecutively, not concurrently) and didn't know how to go about finding someone who wasn't vanilla so I could be not-vanilla. That's something I've only just really started.

As you say, respect for others' "hard-wiring" is important, especially that of the others you're involved with. One of the things I love about Hubby is that even if he doesn't understand why I'm the way I am, he accepts and respects it. Since we opened our marriage, he has not opposed anything I've brought up to him. We've gone from an original "you can have sex with other men so you can try sexual things I don't want to do, but you can't have feelings for them" (which even he realized was ridiculous as soon as he said it) to "oh, you've fallen in love with him? Don't cut contact with him, that just means you're bringing more love into the world and I'm okay with it". We've gone from "I think I'm dominant, so I'll do the D/s thing with you but I don't want you to do it with anyone else" to "I feel kind of silly about acting dominant with you, and you say you want to explore other kinks you're realizing you have, so I'm okay with you finding someone else to explore those things with, just be careful."

Meanwhile, I respect that Hubby is monoamorous, and I accept and respect the things he's told me about his sexuality and interests-bordering-on-kinks.

So yeah, getting back to your point, if you're with a partner who isn't comfortable with or willing to explore what you want to explore, it isn't completely fair (for want of a better word; it's way too early here for me to think of better words) for you to expect him to go along with what you want. By the same token, it isn't completely fair for him to expect you not to explore those things at all, only to expect you not to push him on them. (I'm agreeing with you...)

RR I was a little Vanilla, it was mf, some playful, but I had a gf that opened me up. Do not underestimate you ability to encourage him to explore. If you do things and he tells you 'that is disgusting' you may be with the wrong person. I have known guys that are so straight up they are missing it. My wife isn't big on vehicle sex, I love it, semi public is with in my fortay. But she introduced me to my first 3some, more bondage, and some other things. I have coached a few women bring out the more playful side of their bfs.

I took quickbrownfox's comment to mean it's great to explore because one never knows. I don't recall ever being truly vanilla either. I've explored it with various partners. Some took to it, some not so much.

What thequickbrownfox meant was that for some being monogamous and vanilla are the only thing that they know or where taught is acceptable.

Until he meet me he had no idea what polyamory was and had no idea that he would enjoy kink. It took years of me talking to him, to showing him and him experiencing kink before he decided to explore and learn about it.

His first experience with polyamory was horrid and broke all of our hearts. It was just brutal. We took three years to heal, just us, and recently opened up our relationship again. This time we are going a LOT slower, being MORE open and honest and enjoying what we are doing.

*ETA*
I've never been monogamous until we took that three year break. To me the idea of only one love seemed so odd. I am submissive but have a bratty side at times

My apologies to thequickbrownfox then, for taking the post the wrong way possibly . Thank you all for your comments!