Completely frustrated

A little background about me. My husband and I are in a semi-closed relationship where he has agreed that we can have lovers as long as they are of the same-sex. My husband who is bi-curious has taken advantage of this arrangement with at least 4 other lovers (one of which was without my consent, but being the forgiving person that I am, I tried my best to let it go) while I've yet to do anything other than a few failed attempts at flirting, mostly because I'm straight and not really into doing anything with another woman.

Anyway, let's get to why I'm here. I'm frustrated, mentally, physically, and emotionally. I love my husband and have no intention of leaving him, however I've always wanted to be in multiple relationships out in the open at one time. Why? I don't know, but the want (maybe even need) has always been there since I was at least 18. My husband says he's okay with this but that my lover must be a female as the thought of me being with another male upsets him. However the idea of sharing my bed with him and another girl at the same time and the possibility of a threesome doesn't upset him (go figure).

My problem is that I'm at my wits end with this and although I do not want to get divorced, I don't see myself being able to live like this with his double standard for the rest of my life. He's a great guy, but I have a high sex drive and the potential to be sometimes "emotionally needy" as he puts it so eloquently and he honestly can't keep up. I've told him about my wants and he just shuts down and refuses to speak about it as if he hopes it will fade away into the wind. So I don't even know what to do now. I feel stuck and when I tell him I'm frustrated because he won't even consider the possibility of us exploring this together, he always throws it into my face that if I didn't want to be monogamous I should've never gotten married. Which I still find funny since he's the one whose been enjoying his lovers throughout our relationship while I've stayed faithful the whole time.

Anyway, I'd love some advice right now on what I might be able to do to speak to him. We haven't spoken about my want to be with someone else in the past two weeks or so and I think he thinks it's been settled, but if only he knew.

Okay, firstly, this isn't uncommon. It's usually based on the misogynistic notion that sex and relationships between females aren't real because there isn't a penis involved. So females do not pose the same threat as a man.

Of course, to a bisexual woman, this is nonsense. A woman is as capable of tempting her away as a man.

The added thing in your relationship is that you've got no interest in women so what he is offering you doesn't even partially meet your needs. Just because he is interested in people of the same sex, it doesn't mean you are. I don't think he cares though.

This situation is one where he just has to get over it. There isn't any magic tricks or anything. He just has to realize that it's horrible to push someone into sexual relations when they have no interest and that men aren't inherently more of a threat than women. Nobody can steal someone who doesn't want to be stolen. Failing that, I'd leave or close the relationship.

He's got this set up so only he can be fulfilled. You have no interest in women, so why would his arrangement appeal to you? And why does he think he should be involved in a threeway with you and another woman when he has not invited you to join him with his male lovers?

Why on earth are you agreeing to this? If accommodations are being made for his sexuality, accommodations must be made for yours.

I am sorry you are struggling with frustration.

My husband who is bi-curious has taken advantage of this arrangement with at least 4 other lovers (one of which was without my consent, but being the forgiving person that I am, I tried my best to let it go)

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This is a separate problem. Esp if it was cheating on agreements.

My husband and I are in a semi-closed relationship where he has agreed that we can have lovers as long as they are of the same-sex.

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This seems the main problem. This agreement does not sound fair. (I am not sure why you would agree -- maybe you thought it would loosen up over time? Next time do not agree to unfair parameters on the outset.)

In the present time? He gets to have lovers in the way he likes (bi -- you + other guys) and you do not get to have lovers in the way you like (straight -- him + other guys). That agreement could be corrected.

I suggest you tell him you can no longer keep this agreement. You prefer to go with "we have outside lovers that match our style" so it is more fair and more accurate a description.

If changing agreements to be fair upsets him? It upsets him.

You can ask if he is willing to work through that upset so things can be fair to both. With couple counseling if needed so this change toward "fair" can be smoother. If he says no, he is not willing to be fair and not willing to work through his upset?

Then the only ethical way I can see for you to meet your want for multiple lovers is to break up with him and then poly date as you wish. Cheating would not be ethical.

Would you prefer both Closed? If so you could suggest that. But to me you sound like you prefer Open.

My problem is that I'm at my wits end with this and although I do not want to get divorced, I don't see myself being able to live like this with his double standard for the rest of my life.

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This is not a problem with no solution. This is a regretful solution to a problem.

He alternates from (stonewalling and refusing to talk) to (acting out at you to shut you up.) Both behaviors avoid actual discussion. This is not loving behavior toward a spouse who is bringing up concerns within the marriage. What other spouse would you talk to? He's falling down on the job there.

You seem to understand that you cannot live under a double standard your whole life. (hard limit) If he is not willing to work with you, you may have to divorce in order to be free of the strain this situation is causing you. (solution)

It is just not a solution you love. I get that.

It sounds like you are dealing with some anticipatory grief that it may come down to that. Also dealing with loving someone who is not behaving lovingly toward you right now -- neither with the unfair agreement, the stonewalling, or the acting out.

But keep moving this forward. Ask what you need to ask him. If he doesn't want to talk, and you go down the list os possibilities and he shoots them all down? You end up at "Divorce" because he's just not willing to work with you and have fair agreements. It is what it is. You gave it every attempt. He did not.

You do not have to choose to participate in a marriage with unfair agreements that cause you strain for the rest of your life. You deserve to be treated well. Not poorly. So you treat you well.

Don't let frustration and grief prevent you from doing what needs doing here -- ask him, go down the list and if he's flat out "No" on everything? Work on acceptance that you want fair and he does not. Then let him go because you deserve to be treated well. Unfair, one-sided agreements in a marriage are not treating you well.

When all the choices stink, pick the least stinky. In this case a split is less stinky than you being stuck for life with this unfair agreement.

Galagirl

LostInCanada said:

My husband and I are in a semi-closed relationship where he has agreed that we can have lovers as long as they are of the same-sex . . . I've yet to do anything other than a few failed attempts at flirting, mostly because I'm straight and not really into doing anything with another woman.

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You're straight - so why did you even agree to this ridiculousness? Yes, time to put your foot down and renegotiate! Tell him your needs must be met in this arrangement or the whole thing is over.

He does not sound like a good, caring, understanding partner to you. He sounds very selfish and controlling. Why stay?

I agree with everybody else. You're getting a raw deal out of this and he should give up his other lovers if you can't have them yourself. I feel your frustration.

Of course this arrangement works for him! He's bi so he gets additional lovers. And, it sounds like he may also have the idea that if you take a female lover, he would get access to her, too (through a three way.) That's a win-win for him... male and female lovers. Meanwhile, you get the consolation prize of sex with women when you're straight!

Being open isn't easy. It requires a lot of personal work to work through insecurities and jealousies. Refusing to do that himself while expecting you to is selfish and not very loving, imo (especially in light of the fact that you also had to work through the trust issues surrounding his affair.) I agree with the others. Renegotiate for what you want. If he's unwilling to renegotiate, then consider whether this is the right relationship for you. My opinion is that just because we love someone does not mean that we get to (or should) be in relationship with them. Sometimes the most loving thing we can do for ourselves and others is to let them go.

Thank you for the replies everyone. To answer a few questions , I originally agreed to this because I was happy, very happy in fact, seeing him with another guy. Initially I was a little jealous because I felt like I couldn't give him everything he wanted sexually, but as time went on that faded and I loved our arrangement but I also began to wonder what it would be like to have someone for myself as well. He says the thought of me being with another man makes him feel emasculated but refuses to see things from my point of view. He wants to go back to being closed just so I can't be with someone else, but that isn't what I want at all and he knows this. I don't want a divorce but I don't want to feel trapped in a marriage with someone I resent, which is what will probably happen if we stay together.

I think I'd be tempted to set out a firm but compassionate timeframe for him to come to terms with you dating another guy. Think about how long you are willing to wait (one month? three months? six months?) and then tell him that whilst you love him, want to give him time to prepare and deal with his emotional responses, and very much hope that he wants to stay married to you, you are not going to be happy closing your relationship OR living with a double standard. If he wants your support to help him root out his insecurities, or if he wants to see a counsellor, or do his own research on polyamory and jealousy then he has some time to do that in - a luxury he did not afford you. If he chooses to bury his head in the sand and not use that time wisely? Then you have been honest and upfront, and should begin to look to date another and let the chips fall where they may. If he really cannot or will not deal, then he must decide for himself if divorcing you is the answer. You can't do the work for him, or change his opinions, but you don't have to do what he tells you either, especially when you know full well that you dating other guys is not the threat he fears it is.

LostInCanada said:

...I don't want to feel trapped in a marriage with someone I resent, which is what will probably happen if we stay together.

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You've answered your own question here.

So I sat him down tonight and talked to him. I told him in no uncertain terms that I deserve to be happy and part of that is to no longer deny that I am polyamorous. I told him that he needs to either explore this with me or we need to part and although I didn't expect an answer from him today, he needs to figure out if he wants to proceed with me. I also told him that I want our marriage to work because I love him and us but that I need to make myself happy even if it may mean the end of our marriage. We hugged and haven't spoken about it since then so we'll see what happens.

Good for you -- laying it out there plain.

I hope he takes the time to digest it and regardless of how exactly it turns out (together or apart) that you are each able to reach a place free of this stress/strain.

Hang in there!
Galagirl

One Penis Policy, or OPP, as others have said, is inherently sexist. And if hubby would feel "emasculated" just at the thought of you dating a man, he does not have a very firm grip on his masculinity, or even his confidence as an attractive mate in general. Men whose wives date other men are often full of fear the other guy(s) will be taller, fitter, have a bigger cock, more stamina in bed, more sexual tricks up his sleeve, with a better job and a better car and more hair on his head!

Even if you were bi (which you are not), an agreement where you just date women is still wrong. And to spin that out further, what happens if your bi guy falls for another woman? I'd bet my bottom dollar, if (when) that happens, all of a sudden it would be OK for you to date/fuck men! lol

Just to be fair, it's not only men that force this double standard on their mate. There are women out there who try to impose a OVP on their male mate as well.

I once attempted to date a guy who told me he and his wife were poly, but after months of foot dragging on her part, she vetoed me, and they agreed that while she could date guys (they even once had a male lover of hers living with them for a good amount of time), he could only date guys, and only casually. I sometimes wonder how that worked out for them, since the man was a loving type, who didn't seem to me to be able to keep "feelings" for his sex partner at bay.

There are also poly people of both sexes who prefer to mate with a mono partner who has no desire to see others, thereby taking any jealousies the poly partner might have out of the equation altogether.

Your husband isn't seeing the whole picture here, so kudos to you for insisting he take your needs into account! Rather then kowtow to his fears and attempts to hold challenges at bay, renegotiate, and start taking offers from men, and then let your husband learn to deal with his fears of loss (where jealousy comes from). Eventually, once you start seeing others, while his "masculinity" might take a hit at first, he will learn that you are not looking to replace him. You are poly! You want to be with him AND others, not be with another. Even if a guy you date has a bigger dick, better car, etc., does not mean he will lose you to him. And if another guy was out to steal you away, that makes him a cowboy and I think you'd notice that and dump him.

By the way, the threesome fantasy is the most common of all male fantasies. The reality of threesomes never matches the perfection of the fantasy. In his mind, while masturbating to the idea, the women are perfect sexbots servicing him. In reality, they are actual human beings with needs and even jealousies, of their own. BTDT... ugh.

Re (from LoveBunny):

"Why on earth are you agreeing to this?"

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That's what I was wondering ...

Re (from LostInCanada):

"He says the thought of me being with another man makes him feel emasculated ..."

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Too freakin' bad (for him).

Re (from LostInCanada):

"We hugged and haven't spoken about it since then so we'll see what happens."

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I think that'll play right into his hands. No due date was given.

The arrangement as it stands -- the bi partner gets same-sex dates while the straight partner also only gets same-sex dates -- is plain crazy. Do away with it as quickly as possible. I think the best arrangement would be, both partners can date either sex. The restrictions have been counterproductive.

I don't mean to be rude, but I think you deserve a lot better.

kdt26417 said:

Re (from LoveBunny):


That's what I was wondering ...

Re (from LostInCanada):


Too freakin' bad (for him).

Re (from LostInCanada):


I think that'll play right into his hands. No due date was given.

The arrangement as it stands -- the bi partner gets same-sex dates while the straight partner also only gets same-sex dates -- is plain crazy. Do away with it as quickly as possible. I think the best arrangement would be, both partners can date either sex. The restrictions have been counterproductive.

I don't mean to be rude, but I think you deserve a lot better.

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No you're statement was okay. In fact, I need this kick in the pants by all of you to stand up for myself finally. He claims he tried being poly with an ex, but it was based on so much lying and deceit that I consider her to be a cheater poorly attempting to masquerade in polyamory clothing. He left for a job today so when he gets back on Monday I'm going to touch base with him again. I've already decided that if he won't even look into things with me that I'm moving back to my home country which is another reason why I'm even more frustrated. I've given so much for him and our relationship including leaving my home country behind with my friends, family, and a good job offer that I got literally two days before I moved and yet he's just sitting back getting everything he wants while I only get crumbs. Honestly, I'm sick of it and I want to be happy in every facet of my life and I'm finally taking life back by the reigns and have decided that I'm going to make myself happy come hell or high water.

That's the spirit.

Good for you!

You sound like you a have a rudimentary plan in mind. Keep going!

I hope you achieve happiness in every facet like you wish.

Galagirl

LostInCanada said:

I've already decided that if he won't even look into things with me that I'm moving back to my home country which is another reason why I'm even more frustrated. I've given so much for him and our relationship including leaving my home country behind with my friends, family, and a good job offer that I got literally two days before I moved and yet he's just sitting back getting everything he wants while I only get crumbs. Honestly, I'm sick of it and I want to be happy in every facet of my life and I'm finally taking life back by the reigns and have decided that I'm going to make myself happy come hell or high water.

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Right on! We girls gotta look out for ourselves!

That was disappointing

So I talked to my hubby tonight to see where he was with everything and he said that he sees where I'm coming from but that he's still not okay with being fully open. I told him that was fine as he's entitled to feel how he feels and to be happy just as I am. I then told him I'm leaving in January once I have enough saved up to get myself back onto my feet as I deserve to be happy. He hasn't said much since then so I don't know if he's in shock of what, but it feels good to be truthful to myself again.

Good! Now do your thing to get ready to leave him and see how he acts. If he starts getting pissy, or wanting you to feel his feelings for him (men do this), refuse, and leave the room. Let him deal with the consequences of his preference to impose a double standard on you.

When we first opened our marriage, my ex h also wanted an OPP. All he wanted was a FFM threesome. When his chosen gf took no interest in me, he still was saying I could only date women. But soon his (feminist) gf made him see the light. Of course, when she said Mags has a right to date either sex, then it was OK. If it came from my lips it was wrong. If it came from hers, it made perfect sense! smh