Ask a triad - advice column

I am part of a FMF triad. It started as a V that moved to a triad. If anyone has questions for us on pretty much anything, please ask away. We have learned a lot about what works for us and what doesn't, so I'd love to help others looking at starting this kind of configuration, are having trouble, or just want to spread some triad cheer.

I am the wife in the triad, but if you have questions for our girlfriend, or my husband, I can pass them along and get you their answers.

That's cool that you're starting this thread. I'm not in a triad (I'm in a V), but I know that many people dream of being in a triad.

Thanks. We started as a V but evolved to a triad. We have had our ups and downs, and I thought about starting this thread after reading about such bad experiences with triads. I thought it might be a good place for those interested in learning what has worked for others. Of course, what works for one doesn't work for all, but if we could help those looking for advice, we are glad to do so.

What's the first bit of advice you'd give a couple who was seeking a third to add to their marriage?

kdt26417 said:

What's the first bit of advice you'd give a couple who was seeking a third to add to their marriage?

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My first advice is to discuss between yourselves why you want a third.
Is it for sex?
Is it for both of you to find someone compatible?
Are you looking for the same traits, or are you looking for different traits?
Are you wanting something long term or short term?
Would you like someone else to live with you?
Would you be open to starting relationships with each of you separately as a V, then moving to a triad?

The list can go on and on. The reason you both should discuss this is to know what you are willing and not willing to do. Maybe you thought a triad was best, but after discussion, maybe another configuration would be better. Maybe swinging would suit your needs better. Also making a list of things you would like or not like can help you open the discussion with a potential match.

When you have done your homework, and you have looked, etc., and you find someone who you think might be a good fit. Now the real work begins. Everyone needs to sit down and talk. Lay it all out. Everyone should have a voice, most of all, the person who is considering being with the two of you. Their opinion and needs should be valued as much as the person that you are currently with.

If you do decide to give it a try, now even more real work begins. You can not expect her or him to fit into a tiny neat box. The new person will develop relationships with each of you at different rates. They might not form a romantic relationship with one of you at all. This might be disappointing, but it doesn't have to be the end of the world. You might end up with a best friend who you can still hang out with, live with, if you chose, etc.

I will say that my gf and I were FWBs for a long time before love developed. It happened much slower than her relationship with my husband. But then again, we started as a V with him in the middle. But over time, and with the understanding that gf's and dh's relationship was just as important and mine and dh's, things worked out. We didn't really date as a triad before she moved in, so my gf and I had to do our dating stage while living together.

happytriad, good idea for a thread.

Would you like to choose nicknames for your husband and gf? Just using those terms seems rather generic.

I'd like to add this article to the thread in case it attracts long-term couples seeking to "add a third to their relationship."

"So Someone Called You a Unicorn Hunter?"

http://davidlnoble.livejournal.com/176039.html

Giving the nicknames is a good idea. I hadn't thought of that. I'll do that.

And yes, that article is a good one.

What would you say to a couple that only wants to date as a couple? What about a couple that only wants to have sex (with their third) as a couple?

Ugh, I just hate the term "their third," even used hypothetically. It sounds so possessive and patronizing of that member of the triad. The third sounds better than their third.

Well for the record, I don't like the term "third" either (let alone "their" third). What is that person, a number? Third place? Third in line? Nevertheless, it's such common terminology among unicorn hunters that I figured I'd speak their native lingo for purposes of this thread.

I suppose "the newer partner" would be more respectful.

The couple may think the newer partner belongs to them, so they're not just saying it. If the couple is coming from a monogamous paradigm, they may think the two of them belong to each other as well. Monogamous conditioning carries with it a lot of people belonging to each other.

Which is one of the reasons I'm skeptical about marriage as well.

I think that it isn't enough for a couple just to ask themselves what they want. They should also talk about why they want it.

So many people who are part of a couple looking for a third partner come here with a long list of rules that they either demand or felt pressured by their established partner to agree on, and they never thought to question those rules, nor negotiate.

We have seen these rules, which generally seem to come out of the swinging community, or just plain brainwashing from our monogamous societies and families, which really do not work well at all for polyamory, stated by members here so many times they have become a stereotype:

"We only date as a couple."
"My husband will let me have a girlfriend, but I am not allowed to be with another man."
"Our girlfriend can have sex with my husband only when I am present."
"All communications between our girlfriend and my spouse/partner will be shared with me."
"Anyone we get involved with is not allowed to have any other relationships with anyone else."
"Sex is allowed (as long as it is all three of us together), but falling in love is not."
"My spouse/primary partner is not allowed to have a baby with anyone but me."
"My spouse will always be primary and the gf/bf will always be secondary. If anything threatens my primary relationship, or if my primary is unhappy, I have to end things (aka veto) with the secondary."

WHY, WHY, WHY? Fear of competition? Sexism? Insecurity? A need to feel in control? A belief that this is how polyamory "should" be done? Something else?

Anyone who is looking for a triad and has these basic rules should not stop at just knowing what those are. Drill down to the nitty-gritty and figure out the why's behind them - that is where real partnership and discovery of what will satisfy each person will come. It is not enough to let the self-examination stop at just "this is what we/he/she want(s)" or "this is what I agreed to." What is the reason behind it?

Re:

A belief that this is how polyamory "should" be done?

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And if so, where in the world did they get that belief?

I also hate the term third. Even in hierarchical terms (which I loathe), I would see the non-legally married/later arriving person as a second relationship to each person in the preexisting couple. Being labeled third in this instance would mean that person is categorized as lower priority than not just the other members spouse, but also the idea of their relationship. Like this:
Importance:
1. Spouse (person)
2. Preexisting coupleness (relationship)
3. New member (person)

It automatically presumes that the new person is less and will always be less than the couple.

My V flirts occasionally with being a triad. Were we to attempt that configuration, the dyads would be given equitable standing. I'd never feel truly respected or valued as a person if I were considered third priority in a "primaryish" relationship.

kdt26417 said:

What would you say to a couple that only wants to date as a couple? What about a couple that only wants to have sex (with their third) as a couple?

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I think this is the easiest way for an established couple to step into poly, which is why it's so common. If that is how they want to date, then that's perfectly fine, but they need to know that it will dramatically decrease their chances of finding a new partner or partners.

I'd also ask them why this setup is what they want. Is it because they are scared their preexisting relationship will suffer if they don't? Is it just because they want to? I would suggest keeping an open mind about other dynamics being a possibility.

I still don't understand how we all came together, and it just fit, to be honest. We definitely beat the odds.

As far as only have sex as a triad, with no one pairing off, I would have to ask again, why? More than likely, they have a fear that it will damage their preexisting relationship.

Also, I have to say that this isn't fair to the person joining, unless it is what they want.

Also, multiple-partner sex is demanding. It's wonderful, but demanding. I love threesome sex, but I don't think I could do it every single time we have sex. It's draining, mentally and physically. Sometimes it's nice to just have to focus on one person's needs during the act. Also, I think that having paired-off sex with everyone is important because it gives you a chance to connect in ways you can't in threesomes or multiple-partner sex.

Magdlyn said:

Ugh, I just hate the term "their third," even used hypothetically. It sounds so possessive and patronizing of that member of the triad. The third sounds better than their third.

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kdt26417 said:

I suppose "the newer partner" would be more respectful.

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I think "third" is just a term. I can see how it could be disrespectful in ways. But I think it's just really hard to pick ways to describe poly situations. There are only so many pronouns in the English language, and sometimes it can get confusing. When I use the term "third," it isn't meant to demean the other member in our triad in any way, but just as a way to keep everything straight when explaining. We don't have the hierarchy some relationships do, because that isn't what we want, but it's easier when explaining our situation, because we were a couple first. Then they became a couple; then we all joined together. It's not that she comes in third place from a relationship status, just that it is an easy way to keep everything straight when trying to explain things.

I like the term New Partner.

nycindie said:

I think that it isn't enough for a couple just to ask themselves what they want; they should also talk about why they want it.

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I totally agree. I was trying to have that come across in my post. Also, I think a reason there are so many rules initially set is because people are fearful that their existing relationship will be in danger if they don't have a long list of rules.

We had way more rules that all three of us agreed to, in the beginning. They weren't as drastic as the ones you described, but one reason we had them was to avoid pushing boundaries we were not comfortable with being pushed. We also discussed them every couple of weeks, to see if anything had changed as we got more comfortable with our new dynamic. Over the last year, they have changed drastically. The key was that we made sure to all talk about things often, discuss what everyone liked and didn't like, and ways to improve.

happytriad said:

And as far as only have sex as a triad with no one pairing off . . .

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Well, what we see most often is that the existing couple thinks it is perfectly fine to have sex with each other as a pair, while the new person/unicorn/third is only "allowed" to have sex in a threesome with the couple, and can never fuck one of them alone, except perhaps with the wife/female partner, if the "third" is a woman. So there is pairing off, but it is incredibly couple-centric and unfair to the new person they "added."

Because, you know, she only exists to serve their needs and should not be allowed any of her own.

@ happytriad ... one scenario that I've seen here (on the forum) that troubled me was this. A husband and wife had a third (a woman). The wife wanted to have children with the husband, and they planned to do so. However, they didn't want the third to have children with the husband ... nor with anyone else.

What is your opinion on this type of setup, and how would you advise the husband/wife couple in that scenario?

nycindie said:

What we see most often is that the existing couple thinks it is perfectly fine to have sex with each other as a pair, while the new person/unicorn/third is only "allowed" to have sex in a threesome... So there is pairing off, but it is incredibly couple-centric and unfair to the new person they "added." Because, you know, she only exists to serve their needs and should not be allowed any of her own.

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I personally don't understand how anyone can think this is okay. I know it happens and it blows my mind. I think people attempt to do this out of fear.

For us, what works is this: if the third member isn't home, or has expressed no interest in sex that night, it's fair game to pair off with whoever. If all three of us are home, we ask if the other cares. Sometimes they do, but most of the time they don't. If they do care, it's usually due to an emotional issue going on (in our situation), and the other two are respectful and give the emotional one extra attention, because that is what is needed, and we care more for the additional partner's feelings than hurting them to have sex.

Sometimes we pair off because someone is emotional. Say Lovie is feeling disconnected from Champ. She really needs a few minutes to reconnect in whatever way she needs. All she has to do is ask. I am understanding of her needs, and am happy to stay in the other room, if that will make her feel better, and give her what she needs.

kdt26417 said:

One scenario that I've seen here that troubled me was this: a husband and wife had a third (a woman). The wife wanted to have children with the husband, and they planned to do so. However, they didn't want the third to have children with the husband ... nor with anyone else.

What is your opinion on this type of setup? How would you advise the husband/wife couple in that scenario?

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This is a tough one, and one that we are kind of going through. Lovie doesn't necessarily want kids, but being with me and Champ kind of limits her possibilities at the current moment. I am not in a place emotionally to handle another child brought in by me or her. Champ isn't interested in any more kids, either. I'm not saying one day we might decide to have another kid, either her or me, or both, or whatever. But for now, Champ and I are finished. Champ and I have a 6-year old together and we decided a long time ago neither of us wanted more kids.

If this is something that Lovie decided was important to her, then we would all talk and decide what is best for all of us. I'm not going to lie and say it would not feel weird to me for her to have a child with Champ, because it would. But if it is something they both wanted, I'd be open to the idea, just like I would want her to be open to the idea, and consider it, if the roles were reversed. I can't control what they do anymore than you can control any other man who fathers a child that isn't your biological child. But I would hope that before they did anything that would affect the family, we would all discuss why we did or didn't want the proposed pregnancy. I can't control Lovie's body, just like she can't mine, but we have enough respect to involve everyone in matters that affect the entire family.

My advice to that couple is that you are not only dealing with yourselves, but also the person you brought into the preexisting relationship. She should have just as much as as either of you in things that affect the family. Everyone needs to talk, listen, express their feelings and dig deep to see if there is a way to compromise.

Sounds good.

Okay here's another one. A husband and wife bring a new woman into their marriage, and they decide they want a closed triad. This means the new woman can be intimate with the husband and (or?) wife, but they do not want the new woman to go out and date outside the couple, nor do they want her to get her own boyfriend outside the couple.

Is this an arrangement that could work? How would you advise the couple that had established this rule?

kdt26417 said:

A husband and wife had a third (a woman). The wife wanted to have children with the husband, and they planned to do so. However, they didn't want the third to have children with the husband ... nor with anyone else.

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This subject came up in the triad I was in, when we discussed boundaries. At that point, Blue & Snow had been dating for a while, and Blue & I had been dating a couple months longer. There was no hierarchy, no 'adding.'

When it looked like we were heading towards a triad, as opposed to the V we all thought we were in, we discussed our boundaries, our needs/desires from the relationship, and our personal goals.

Snow really wanted another child. She knew she wasn't in a place to have one at the time, and she knew that it was way too early in her relationship with Blue to consider adding a child. She just knew that she eventually wanted one. Blue was open to the idea, but undecided either way. My initial reaction was that it was a dealbreaker. This is where I have to agree with this:

nycindie said:

I think that it isn't enough for a couple just to ask themselves what they want; they should also talk about why they want it... Anyone who is looking for a triad and has these basic rules, should not stop at just knowing what those are. Drill down to the nitty-gritty and figure out the whys behind them - that is where real partnership and discovery of what will satisfy each person will come. It is not enough to let the self-examination stop at just "This is what we/he/she want(s)" or "This is what I agreed to." What is the reason behind it?

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When Blue questioned why I felt so strongly, I had to examine my motives. Some were insecurity/fear-related: i.e., fear that the child would bond him more closely to Snow than to me. Another motive was child-related: believing the child would be better off with two parents as opposed to three. Also, there was fear of being 'outed.' Once I understood my motives, I could dissect them and determine whether they were valid or not.

Snow has since moved away, and our relationship with her has transitioned to friendship, but I've determined that this is no longer a hard limit for me.

Also, it wasn't ever a case of 'veto,' as there was/is no veto power in my relationship with Blue. It was more like a rigid boundary-- if this happens, then I will walk away.

Self examination isn't unique to people in poly relationships, and it isn't something that I'm a stranger to, but I will say that I've found myself examining my thoughts, feelings, and motives much more closely since my relationship with Blue. All good things.

@pink - thank you for sharing your experience. And I totally agree figuring out the root of why you feel for or against something is very important.