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Old 05-11-2010, 12:37 AM
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Default The Rules/Foundations of Poly

I am starting a new thread on this below topic as I think it warrants further discussion.... here is what was written on another thread to start us off.

What do you see as being the Rules/Foundations/Principles of Poly that anyone in or going into a poly situation should know about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
The only foundation of poly that I can think of, and I think *foundation* IS the word to describe it, is that poly is based on open communication, empathy, mutual respect, love, caring, self confidence and honesty.

This is not unique to poly, but any solid relationship. That doesn't make it a rule, but the foundation to a good relationship.
As mentioned by Capricorny.....to start us off....there is some discrepancy behind terminology and that communication has aspects of a game.... any thoughts on that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorny View Post
There you are. Foundation. Principles. To me, it is a bit of hair-splitting to insist on the principal differerence between basic principles and rules. Because if this foundation isn't in fact built upon, i.e. the principles given any power, we talk about intentions, not a foundation. And when the principles are given power, for instance I stick to communication in a situation where I might have been inclined to do something else, what then is the difference between a principle, foundation, and an (internalized) rule?

Rules come in all flavors. Some could be considered more restrictive, like the law of Moses, some more enabling, like grammar rules for communication.

And re games: Don't all forms of communication and interaction have an aspect of game to them? That your life has an aspect of game to it, doesn't make it a game. And if your life has no aspect of game to it whatsoever, I really wonder what it looks like
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Last edited by redpepper; 05-11-2010 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:55 AM
capricorny capricorny is offline
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Default Where did you get it from that someone thinks polyamory is a game?

Where did you get it from that someone thinks polyamory is a game?

When Mono says: "Playing the Game of Life with Monopoly rules." Does that mean that his life is simply a game?

Communication is basic to polyamory, communication has many aspects of game to it, communication is always based on rules. Rules of grammar, concepts etc. These rules are internalized by the participants, and they are enabling for the process. As long as they are not fully internalized, the process may be hampered by that, just demonstrating that the rules are not restrictive, they are enabling. And they are never completely fixed, they develop all the time.

And when communication is part of the foundation for poly, communication having a game aspect and being based on enabling rules, how can polyamory escape from this?

When did having some male aspects make you a male?
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:48 AM
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Poly relies on the same ideas that create any other healthy relationship. Communication and Honesty. Beyond that, there is no one person or group that has "established" the way to do poly or what the principles or rules are because to apply such concepts to a free way of loving is bullshit. There might be people who claim to have such moral authority or experience driven knowledge but they serve only as guides and examples of their poly, no one elses.

There are incredible people who devote extreme work to shedding light on non-monogamy in many forms. They should be thanked for their work and sharing. They should not be idolized or assumed to have figured it out....because that is them.

My poly is not your poly I believe is the term. And that's about as accurate as it gets.

This is a major pet peeve of mine; the constructs and "leadership" of a community that doesn't need "leadership" that acts as a parental influence. The funny thing is I am painfully monogamous in how I love intimately and yet I lose my mind when I see structure applied to the concept of poly or the communities that form. Why is that? Because I see it as laughable that some one would rant about the restrictions of one community only to willingly submit to that of another. I may be considered a sheep for some of my traditional views, but I am a self aware sheep and know full well that I am in a constructed pasture. Unfortunately some of the enlightened sheep are actually the least aware of their confinement.

So as far as rules go...they don't apply to me or "my poly". I do what I please and call it what I want and no one has any authority or ability to make me do otherwise.
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorny View Post
Where did you get it from that someone thinks polyamory is a game?

When Mono says: "Playing the Game of Life with Monopoly rules." Does that mean that his life is simply a game?

Communication is basic to polyamory, communication has many aspects of game to it, communication is always based on rules. Rules of grammar, concepts etc. These rules are internalized by the participants, and they are enabling for the process. As long as they are not fully internalized, the process may be hampered by that, just demonstrating that the rules are not restrictive, they are enabling. And they are never completely fixed, they develop all the time.

And when communication is part of the foundation for poly, communication having a game aspect and being based on enabling rules, how can polyamory escape from this?

When did having some male aspects make you a male?
I'm sorry, I posted too fast because I was distracted... I was trying to figure out what the heck I was trying to say ... oops.

There was no indication that you said poly was a game.. I understand entirely that it is communication that has some aspects of a game.

(going back to edit now)
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:56 AM
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OK....I ranted on my last post...true to how I feel but still a bit of a rant.
I think this is a great thread and the opinions of everyone are valid and look forward to hearing others.

*No sheep were harmed during the typing of this comment.
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
Poly relies on the same ideas that create any other healthy relationship. Communication and Honesty. Beyond that, there is no one person or group that has "established" the way to do poly or what the principles or rules are because to apply such concepts to a free way of loving is bullshit. There might be people who claim to have such moral authority or experience driven knowledge but they serve only as guides and examples of their poly, no one elses.

There are incredible people who devote extreme work to shedding light on non-monogamy in many forms. They should be thanked for their work and sharing. They should not be idolized or assumed to have figured it out....because that is them.

My poly is not your poly I believe is the term. And that's about as accurate as it gets.

This is a major pet peeve of mine; the constructs and "leadership" of a community that doesn't need "leadership" that acts as a parental influence. The funny thing is I am painfully monogamous in how I love intimately and yet I lose my mind when I see structure applied to the concept of poly or the communities that form. Why is that? Because I see it as laughable that some one would rant about the restrictions of one community only to willingly submit to that of another. I may be considered a sheep for some of my traditional views, but I am a self aware sheep and know full well that I am in a constructed pasture. Unfortunately some of the enlightened sheep are actually the least aware of their confinement.

So as far as rules go...they don't apply to me or "my poly". I do what I please and call it what I want and no one has any authority or ability to make me do otherwise.
It may seem that you are arguing against me. But are you, really?
I don't think so
Something about inner and outer authorities, maybe?
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:07 AM
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I actually think that there may be some principles that have worked for me.

One is the idea of compersion. I am unable to be healthy and happy in my poly relationships without it. In fact, keeping my emotions in check at all times is a must... analyzing them before I speak and act is very important.. more so than any other area of my life. Compersion and jealousy/envy are at the top of the list of things to consider. That would be first for me.

I also think that communication has to be beyond everyday. For me it has to be about the simplest of things... for example I just told Nerdist about an email I am about to write her just to let him know. It would not be necessary if we were mono, but as we are not and she is an interest of his, it is necessary that he know everything that transpires between us and how I feel about it and what I think...

The third would be time. Time balancing and prioritizing is huge in poly and something of a talent. It has to be an interest of those involved if we are ever to manage to see each other. Quality time is so important. Prioritizing time is so important. Really I think quite often time constraints is the biggest deterrent over all from having poly relationships.

hmmm..... there is more for me, but I am mulling for a bit.
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorny View Post
It may seem that you are arguing against me. But are you, really?
I don't think so
Something about inner and outer authorities, maybe?
I didn't intend to argue I don't think...hmmm I should look at that because I can come off a bit aggressive at times around certain topics. Outer authorities is definitely the sore spot for me.

I am the oddest person when it comes to poly honestly. I don't understand it from a poly persons mindset, live it quite happily, believe in traditional relationships as the continued way of the world and yet aggressively defend aspects of poly like some deranged Don Quixote with a pot on my head LOL!

I'm similarly triggered by religious debates..I am Catholic but don't practice at all but am a raging crusader when it is attacked....shhhhhhh don't tell anyone but I have some major issues
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:17 AM
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I have an idea...Let's write in a different context.

What if a rulebook existed? Paraphrase; use links to articles; and explain why it should be a rule :P Make your own rulebook, or just post a rule you would like to see hahaha.

I'm not that much of a pro seeing as how i'm still in a monogamous relationship lol, but i'll start it off super vague hahaha.

THE 5 RULES OF POLY!
The presented steps are in a hierarchy from top to bottom. Do not do skip ahead :P

1. oh snap?! you love another person, or you discover you're a hippie!!??? Figure yourself out. Take a hike, go soul searching for however long it takes until you figure that IS true and undeniable...you can like, and love more than one person. Once you do...learn SELF-CONTROL, and don't continue until you do!!!

2. Learn to communicate (click on link) with your partner. However long it takes. When you find that your partner understands you, and you understand your partner, go on to #3...

3. Tell you're partner your poly. THAT'S RIGHT, go right ahead be HONEST! "honesty? what's that? is it safe/convenient?" IT DOESN'T MATTER!!! MWHAHAHA! If you've learned to communicate, you should be able to tell your partner that you're poly and discuss the dynamics of you're future relationship. woohoo!

4. PRACTICE! That guy or girl, who've you've been all "O.M.G i want to touch and you feel you, and be wrapped/wrap myself around your EXISTENCE BECAUSE I LOVE YOU" about? Well now's the time to release that NRE and use it! well...maybe not fully. But release it(hehe) under the conditions of your new, open, and versatile relationship! yay!

5. "i feel jealous and un-loved " OH NOES! You're loved one or many of your loved ones are hurt because of jealousy. WELL, jealousy is alot like fear in that the best to deal with it is HEAD-ON! This last step is rough, and will probably takes months to YEARS...TO LIFE! but hey it'll be the most fantastic journey you'll ever go through(besides maybe having a baby, and climbing some stupid high mountain in china)
Concepts to familiarize your with are: In order...
Unconditional Love<br>
Jealousy <br>
Compersion

WOOP THERE IS IS THE 5 RULES THAT WILL LEAD TO POLY GREATNESS!
Juuuust kidding :P Anyway, that's my take. what's yours?
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:10 AM
capricorny capricorny is offline
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Default An attempt at something possibly comprehensible

OK, I'll try to take it down to something possibly comprehensible.

There are universal rules in polyamory, but they can never be formulated by any outer authority. These rules describe the grammar of the language of love, and in their native form they can only be sensed through the deep heart, beyond the flow of emotions.

In that way, it is basically completely universal, yet at the same time completely individual. Because it emerges in each individual, in a sense an integral part of the individuation process, and therefore unique.

Why polyamory? Because that is the general, default situation. Mono is a special case where much focussing is applied, but this leads to the danger of losing the contact with the bigger picture. On the other hand, lack of focus or too much obsession with the bigger picture may lead to losing the contact with the concrete, physical and psychical aspects of oneself, thereby severing the bridges to others, and making the individual journey more complicated.

What can be said about them? It is probably not possible to make any kind of comprehensive or definitive list, because they operate on a deeper level and are interconnected. But open communication, empathy, mutual respect, love, caring, self confidence, honesty, ethical symmetry, commitment, deep interest and an urge for common growth are aspects that must be active in order to balance the repercussions of the physical and biological processes associated with the practices. It is not about a given way, it is about finding and creating one, and stand up to the challenges life can provide us with.

Whenever we find our interactions are lacking in open communication, empathy, mutual respect or the other aspects, we should take that as a reminder and if at all possible, act on it. It is much easier to use the foundation to see that something is wanting, than to produce ideas for improvement, and it has to be that way. Because we always have to apply phantasy to ethical challenges, they can never be adequately tackled by following some given procedure, we must mobilze creativity.
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