New need help, very confused

Hi Dragonlady,

It sounds like you've figured out the basics of what you want to do and I trust your judgment on that. You seem to be stuck on how to move past the guilt, how to trust again, how do you deal with seeing him in love with that girl, and with how sudden this all is, and what rules (agreements) you should make to deal with it, etc.

Generally speaking, these are things that you work out a little at a time, by trial and error; they are things that you move past or get used to a little at a time. I have to applaud your graceful handling of this discussion so far, and I'm hoping you'll keep us updated on how things are going so we can provide more feedback.

There's a book you could read that you might find helpful: "More than Two: a practical guide to ethical polyamory," by Franklin Veaux and Eve Rickert. It is a good basic how-to guide about making polyamory work.

With well wishes,
Kevin T.
 
Thank you Kevin!
i will search for that book, for now the dust has settle and i am a little calmer.
talked with my partner about it. he vieuws poly different then i do, he would like to have the other partners all in one house and i like to keep my own space (i am a little more of a hermit you call it?)
I dont mind having partners over for a weekend or a few weeks but like to keep stuff "mine" if that makes sense?
like i said to my partner i like the livingroom, kitchen, bedroom ect to stay ours and have our stuff in there instead of having other people's possesions in there too. and i dont think it is very fair to have other partners living in the basement thats no "full" live to my idea.

i takes the fun out of having random sex because somebody else could walk in (other then the bedroom)

What are other people's idea's on that? i know that there are people who all live in one house and people who keeps it seperate. i like the hear ideas about it :)
 
There are people who do poly both as completely separate relationships, and as "poly tribes." There are lots of pros and cons to each style, but most importantly, the style has to be right for you. So, your boundaries about wanting your own space sound perfectly reasonable, and your concern about relegating someone to your basement show that you truly care about your metamours.

Overall, I find the idea of one big, happy, polyship with several people very appealing, but the logistics and practicalities are just more than I want to deal with. I am super picky about who I live with, and I also don't really want to end up in a complicated management of finances, schedules, etc. Needless to say, this makes the reality of a "poly tribe" almost impossible for me, personally. Add to that the fact that my partners and I generall have attractions to people the other(s) may be fine with in passing, but can't take in large doses, it's really unlikely we'll all ever live together.

For other people, this stuff all falls together well, and they find living together a wonderful way to share expenses, time, and intimacy.



It sounds like you'll need to do more talking with your BF and see if you can find a middle ground your both comfortable with.

Thank you Kevin!
i will search for that book, for now the dust has settle and i am a little calmer.
talked with my partner about it. he vieuws poly different then i do, he would like to have the other partners all in one house and i like to keep my own space (i am a little more of a hermit you call it?)
I dont mind having partners over for a weekend or a few weeks but like to keep stuff "mine" if that makes sense?
like i said to my partner i like the livingroom, kitchen, bedroom ect to stay ours and have our stuff in there instead of having other people's possesions in there too. and i dont think it is very fair to have other partners living in the basement thats no "full" live to my idea.

i takes the fun out of having random sex because somebody else could walk in (other then the bedroom)

What are other people's idea's on that? i know that there are people who all live in one house and people who keeps it seperate. i like the hear ideas about it :)
 
I think the closest I could get to "poly family" living (given that we'd all actually like each other enough to want this) would be something like a tenement building or duplex or something like that: close-by, we could all hang out in the backyard, balcony, or on the porch together, but not be constantly around each other if we don't want to be. No reliance on anyone else for finances or bills, or what-not. I was done with roommates after my early 20s. :)
 
i agree with you there Greenacres, the idea is nice to live with more people, the rent ect get cheaper.
But wanting my own space and be able to do something like that yeah... you have to have a pretty big house to my idea.

My partner agree's with my wanting space and such we just have to find the middle way.
I dont rule it out that at one point it might happen that a other partner could live with us but then it has to be somebody i really like. i am open for it but for now i am not yet ready for it.

the advice i am getting here i helping a lot atleast we just have to find our way but the will to get there i there so that helps :)
 
Agree with you there YouAreHere! if it could be like that i woudnt have a problem with it.
I do think it is difficult to get something like that done..
 
Honestly, I feel like there is a lot of stuff here that you need to settle with him before you consider moving out there and marrying him. I wouldn't want to share my home with my partner's other partner(s). Not at all. But if that's the way he is imagining everything working for him and you, you need to be in agreement with each other. It sounds like you're still at the 'finding things out about each other' stage, and in particular in negotiating a poly arrangement from the outset, I think you need to know each other a little better than that.

You've met him physically twice. You are moving thousands of miles to marry him. You will be in a country that you don't know, away from all of your friends and family and support structures. You will be reliant upon him financially, at least initially. And you are only finding out NOW that what he really wants is a house full of lovers. I wouldn't do it. Not in a million years. I would postpone the wedding, and get a three month tourist visa to stay with him - discuss all this in depth, see how you get on spending that much time in close proximity to one another, and at the end of that time period, decide if you both still want to do this.
 
Great points, tenK.

Also, not everyone who comes to Canada wants to stay, even for love. It's an enormous change in culture to live in a different country for the rest of one's life. Always sounds fun when you're youngish and especially before children come along, as they have a way of doing. Raising children a world away from your home culture is an enormous challenge. Adding in multiple lovers and then adding in living with them? The fantasies are not anything like the realities. The people that seems to work for are people who have evolved into the situation slowly and organically.
 
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My partner, Blue, also wants to live as a tribe. I wouldn't have thought it possible before I met his last partner, Snow. We were in a closed triad of sorts for almost 6 months before it recently ended due to her moving across country. With Snow & Blue, I do think it would have been a feasible option. I really think it depends on the temperaments and dynamics of the partners.
 
at the moment my partner agree's with me wanting the space. it are his dreams/hopes for the future with multiple partners. but for now we compromise in them having hollidays kinda things. when stuff like that happens
Nothing is happening yet! he only has 1 other "lover" at the moment and i have none.

For kids i am not afraid, i cant have them i have no womb and my partner is thinking about "having his tubes tied" dont know the official word for it. because we dont want kids and sure dont want to have "accidents" happening with other partners

Like YouAreThere say that is something i could live with, we will work it out.
 
Re:
"My partner is thinking about 'having his tubes tied,' don't know the official word for it."

That would be a vasectomy, I believe.

My poly unit consists of three adults and no kids (both men had vasectomies). I am a privacy hog but so far we have managed to live together in one domicile (including moving a few times) and done alright. But there was a period, early in our relationship, when we needed to live in two separate domiciles. Most poly relationships have their hitches in the early years and we had ours.

Not everyone can do the living-together thing, and three people living together is obviously easier than four or more people. As for sex, my (three-person) V is reeeally vanilla and keeps sex in the bedrooms. Each guy has his own bedroom and the lady of the house (the hinge of the V) can flit from one bedroom to the other. And she and I limit our randy activities for when the other dude (her legal husband) is not at home. Long story short, we manage to keep our sexual encounters private.
 
Vasectomy, yes thank you knew what it was called but didnt dare to write it, think i am making enough typo's as it is ;)

Sounds logical, thank you for sharing <3
 
Hi everyone, I'm Dragonlady's BF and I decided I want to chime in with my perspective. Caution, lots of text ahead.

In fairness to Dragonlady, based on my personality profile on the site we met through, we'd discussed poly only in the vaguest sense until recently. When she asked me about it directly, I said it was something that I view in a positive light, with the right people in the right situation, however, my prior experience at being the added partner in an open relationship was not very positive and left me rather cynical about such things. Also I didn't realize until very recently she'd never been properly introduced to the spectrum of poly relationships, so we had very different views on ways they work, etc.

Regarding what happened, I am actually guilty of committing most of the “don’t do's” of poly relationships. I didn’t properly communicate my desires with my main partner. I was dishonest about my intentions regarding the other person. I lied to both of them, and hurt everyone in the process. The crux of it all was my dishonesty and lack of communication. In the face of this, Dragonlady especially, as well as my other GF, have been astoundingly gracious in trying to make the best of the mess I created.

I honestly didn’t expect the 2nd relationship to even occur. As anyone in a long distance relationship can tell you, they’re very difficult, and I’d been deliberately avoiding situations where the loneliness might get the better of me. Complicating that, of course, are my views that monogamy is something of an artificial construct forced on us by society, but that’s a rant for another thread, but I really didn’t want to screw things up in my main relationship first. I wanted Dragonlady and I to have the time to settle into our life together before complicating things, but obviously I failed in that. Things with the other GF just seemed to evolve organically until there were those feelings between us. Then I was left with a dilemma. I made poor choices, made worse by an anxious nature and being in a situation where I’m with someone who I can be completely honest with, is very new to me.

Overall, this discussion is a hodge-podge of related but individual issues. I lied to both partners and violated their trust; I should have trusted Dragonlady more and been open with her about my feelings from the beginning, and respecting what we’d agreed upon; differences of perception as to what poly is; conversations of hypothetical scenarios getting muddled with what I actively want.

On the first two, I’m still working through my guilt and anger at myself about my behavior through all of this. I feel very much like I’ve trapped Dragonlady into a situation where, if things weren’t as far along as they are for her to come to Canada, she would have walked away when the truth came to light. I think we’ve reached a point between everyone were things are starting to move forward now, but I know it’s going to take time and a lot of figuring out. I’m also working on being better at expressing myself better and being open. The flip side of everything coming out is there’s now a level of communication which inhibits me from lying, which I count as a positive thing.

Regarding the discussion of methods of being poly, the poly tribe scenario is something I view as a hypothetical ideal, but yeah it would require the right people, and enough separate space for everyone involved, effort from other people, plus a ton of other logistical concerns and headaches. Regardless of that, I do feel as Dragonlady does that areas of personal space are a must. I’m well acquainted with trying to live “around” someone else’s stuff can be maddening in the extreme, and feeling like an outsider in your own home is something nobody wants. We’ve had a couple long discussions on what each of us are comfortable with, and what to do about the current scenario, so there is that. I also feel that it’s only fair that if I were looking at another partner in the future that I talk to Dragonlady first, to prevent the kind of things that have happened.

Anyway, this is ridiculously lengthy as-is, so I’ll leave it there for now. Thanks everyone for your input and feeback.
 
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I'm late to this thread, so I'm just going to throw out a few random things from my personal situation that are different from what others have said. Not to argue, but to show that there is more than one way to poly.

When Hubby and I opened our marriage, we started with more of a "swinging" model. Sex okay, friendship okay, romantic feelings not allowed. Our aim at that point was to keep our marriage the priority, in large part because of my kids. We *agreed* that if one of us developed romantic feelings for another partner, we would cut contact with that person and would come clean to each other. Although I've seen from many posts on this forum that such an agreement is impossible to maintain and isn't fair to each other or to other partners, it was what Hubby and I felt was necessary. When we had other partners, we made them aware right off the bat that we had this agreement.

We also gave each other veto power, but with the condition that we could only veto family members (such as cousins), friends and coworkers, and people we worried might be a threat to the marriage or to one of us. Family members were right out. I don't have any coworkers; Hubby works for his father and doesn't want his parents aware of the arrangement, so his coworkers were off limits (and of no interest to me anyway).

As far as the "threat" thing... one example is a woman that's part of the group we met through, who is known for--and proud of--breaking up at least three marriages. I vetoed her; Hubby wasn't interested in her anyway. I also ended up vetoing the one other woman Hubby did have sex with, because I found out she was telling others in our group that he was a stalker. (She was having family issues and he texted her a few times over about 3 weeks to make sure she was okay. Apparently to her, that was "stalking.") And Hubby vetoed one of my friends with benefits when we found out the FWB was using me as a back-up plan, to the point of constantly breaking plans with me because someone more interesting came along, and of telling another woman he was involved with "It's okay if you can't see me, I'll just call KC because I know she'll come over."

When I realized I was in love with another of my FWBs, I went to Hubby and confessed, and told him I would cut ties with the guy. That was also when I was finally able to articulate to Hubby that I was polyamorous, and *he* was actually the one who first used the word. (Thanks, Robert Heinlein!) At that point, Hubby had decided he wasn't interested in having even a purely sexual connection with anyone else. But he told me that I didn't have to cut ties with the other guy.

One of the most important things about boundaries and agreements in poly, to my thinking, is to make them negotiable. When Hubby and I opened the marriage, we actually wrote a list of our agreements and boundaries, and one of them was "These are not set in stone; everything's negotiable."

So when I came out as poly, the "no romantic feelings" agreement was abandoned. Hubby understood that I might fall in love with someone else, and was willing to accept that as long as our marriage remained intact. My FWB thing (which at that point didn't even have benefits; the guy had been in our area on business for several months, but two months earlier had gone home, 800 miles away from us) became a relationship. That relationship ended in October, after just over a year; it couldn't survive *not* being long distance when my boyfriend came back out here on business again.

With my first boyfriend, we did have a hierarchical model, mostly because my boyfriend was long distance. It didn't make sense to me to give him equal place in my life as Hubby when I lived with Hubby and almost never saw my boyfriend. However, with S2, that's changed. Although Hubby does have a certain priority by virtue of the fact that we live together, share finances, and have been raising my kids together, I've made it clear to him and to S2 that I do consider the two of them equal as far as their places in my life. Neither is more important, they're just important in different ways, and I consider them co-primaries. And S2 and I have certain agreements and boundaries as well.

With both S2 and Hubby, I have agreements that I will be told if they decide to look for another partner, whether for a relationship or just for sex. If they find someone else without planning it, I'll be told. If they have sex with another partner, I'll be told, and condoms are mandatory with any other partner until that person's been tested. (They only have to tell me about the *first* time they have sex with someone else; after that it's kind of assumed there'll be sex with that person.) And they will not cancel plans with me to see someone else. Of course, these agreements also apply to me, but at this point I have no intention of bringing any other partners into my life.

As for cohabitating... to be honest, I'd be happy if I didn't live with *either* of them. Sometimes I just want to not trip over another person when I'm trying to get things done. I live with Hubby because we're legally married and, as I said, my kids live with us. S2 has said that for a number of reasons, he's finding that he prefers living alone and just having me spend a couple of weekends a month and a couple of evenings a week with him. He says he wouldn't mind having me over more often, but that right now, he doesn't intend to ever live with a partner again.
 
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Welcome aboard Stormdragon, ;)
Your post was good, and helped put things into perspective.
 
Right now I have a small happy poly family that lives together. It's a decent size house though, and we made sure to lay down ground rules about privacy. The guys each have their own private bedroom, and additionally, they have another area of the house that is specifically their space - DarkKnight has his office and PunkRock has his painting desk area. The living room, dining room, kitchen, game room - these are all communal areas. That said, we eat dinner together as a family and lunch is usually spent together if people are home at the same time. Generally though, if someone is being lazy on the living room couch, the others will respect the use of that space and go be lazy someplace else.
 
Even when it was just the two of us living together, we found it helped if each of us had areas that were "ours" - where one of us had "say" as to what went in there, how much clutter was allowed, decor, etc. (Generally, in our tiny student apartments - he would have one room that was HIS and I could play with the rest)

Now, with 3 people and a limited number of rooms - kitchen, bath, bedroom are, by necessity, "shared" spaces. But we each have areas that we get to determine how they are set up and responsible for cleaning.

Me: library (which is also the dining room and music room), bedroom (shared), sun-room (aka. dog-quarium, eventually my yoga studio)
MrS: living room, gear room, bathroom (shared - he cleans, I organize)
Dude: garage (he's the mechanic), outbuildings, kitchen (shared - he and I clean, he and MrS cook)
 
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