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  #21  
Old 10-24-2009, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by maca View Post
Thats when I realised I was not being loving ,open or honest with the 2 of them.They are friends and I could have damaged that relationship between them. I have sence sent an appology to both LR and the other lady.

I wonder if I will ever be able to not F' things up in relationships.It feels like I take a step forward then fall on my ass roll down the hill, and land in the ditch with a face full of mud.
It sounds like you're working on it, and you want to do the right thing, so give yourself a break.
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  #22  
Old 10-26-2009, 12:13 AM
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My dearest-as I said in rl.
You didn't "fuck things up".

We faced a new dynamic-and learned some more stuff. Good to learn, make things easier later!

I love you and you are amazing. So don't beat yourself up-just pick yourself up, wipe off the dirt, like little tarzan, feel for your heart and start walking again.

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  #23  
Old 05-04-2010, 05:49 AM
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Im very frustrated right now. Things seem to be... like the tide... LR and I are up ang her and GG are down, then her and GG are up and LR and I are down. Its wearing me out.

There is this hugh pressure for GG and I to "make a friendship". Im really struggling with this right now. LR has put a stop to our relationship growing till GG and I work out this relationship issue.

LR and I are closer then we have ever been in 11years and now its on hold. I feel like a switch that can just get turned off.
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2010, 07:22 AM
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Im very frustrated right now. Things seem to be... like the tide... LR and I are up ang her and GG are down, then her and GG are up and LR and I are down. Its wearing me out.

There is this hugh pressure for GG and I to "make a friendship". Im really struggling with this right now. LR has put a stop to our relationship growing till GG and I work out this relationship issue.

LR and I are closer then we have ever been in 11years and now its on hold. I feel like a switch that can just get turned off.
If you feel like you have been closer recently than you have in over a decade then why are you struggling? Are you two very different people struggling to find commonalities other than LR? It seems you should know what those are by now. Are you both competing about who has the best/closest relationship with LR? From reading this forum there is an indication you have equal footing so should feel confident in your relationship and status. Or are you feeling some other issue is making it a struggle with GG? Just state the problem with developing a friendship with GG. Is LR putting a "stop" to your relationship with her or is she telling you her happiness is only complete when the two of you are working to work it all out because when one of you is hurting then she is hurting and if one of you causes the hurt to the other then her hurt is doubled. Yeah, so tensions are going to arise from time to time because you all live together and share so many things and that lends itself to minor annoyances. But you have known eachother for years, is there something NEW that has arisen in the living dynamic that should cause a sudden frustration or struggle? If you are feeling like a switch that someone else has to turn on and off then maybe you need to look at ways you can be more proactive in making both relationships grow. Just a thought. I think you are brave people to try the whole living arrangement that you have, so I have no experience to share but I do hope it makes all of you happy.

BTW I am having an introspective day. Opened up a bit more with my sister (out of my four sibs we are the closest) about this change in my life. Also spoke with a very close cousin on Friday. Gushed a bit about the bf. They are amazed that my husband is ok with it and that it has been a year without incident with him. I think they are curious and kind of in awe that he is so accepting.They both had concerns about my choice in bf because he is married and the whole work obstacle but are completely supportive. I told them all about KT and I and how we are working together to make this all amicable and hopefully better in the longrun. Big sigh of relief that there was no drama. Looking forward to happier times with all of my loved ones together! Fingers crossed.

Last edited by Morningglory629; 05-04-2010 at 08:23 AM.
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  #25  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Morningglory629 View Post
Are you two very different people struggling to find commonalities other than LR?
They are different people, but they actually have a lot in common. There is a defensiveness that drives Maca to not want to find those similarities. He focuses on the differences, but they actually have a lot in common outside of myself and the kids.
Quote:
Are you both competing about who has the best/closest relationship with LR?
Ding ding ding. There is a HUGE sense of competition and frankly it breaks my heart. I met Maca when I was 13. We lived in different towns so we didn't stay in touch. But I knew right then and there that if I was ever going to marry-it would be him.
I met GG when I had JUST turned 18. Right then and there he knew he was going to be devoted to me for life (not married, devoted).
Maca reappeared in my life just after I turned 23. I had JUST decided to move in with GG THAT DAY. I was STUNNED to see Maca and every emotion slammed into me like a freight train.
I love them both. Nothing-absolutely NOTHING will change that. 10 years apart didn't stop me from loving Maca-nothing will. GG and I have a friendship that just... how can I explain? There is a quote from Bram Stokers Dracula, "I've crossed oceans of time for you..." THAT is how our friendship is. We have, we would, we will.
Maca-I can't explain that one either. In the movie Robin Hood Prince of Theives there is a song, by Bryan Adams. The line, "Everything I do, I do it for you."... that song is SO my feelings for Maca. I would give him the sun and the moon.

I feel guilty-because what he thinks he wants isn't what is best for him, and it's not what's best for me either. I've tried to just "make him happy" but really it only makes us both miserable. So I can't do that anymore-I have to fight to do what is BEST for myself and I have to expect that he will do the same.

Quote:
Or are you feeling some other issue is making it a struggle with GG?
He doesn't want to trust GG because GG and I had an affair. It's really that simple.

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Is LR putting a "stop" to your relationship with her or is she telling you her happiness is only complete when the two of you are working to work it all out because when one of you is hurting then she is hurting and if one of you causes the hurt to the other then her hurt is doubled.
Exactly what I said. I told BOTH of them (not just Maca) that I simply can not be the loving passionate woman that each of them desire me to be when they aren't treating each other with kindness, love and respect.
IF they were both SERIOUSLY making an effort to resolve their differences that would be one thing.
But I asked and was told point blank, "we're never going to be good friends."
THAT IS FINE-it's their choice and their right to decide who their friends are.
But as I told them-WE ARE ALREADY A FAMILY. We have children together. There isn't any changing that. So it's far too late to decide you aren't going to learn to trust each other, respect and care for one another.
Playing little "one upmanship" games is not only disrespectful to each other-it's damaging to me AND all of our children. It's not fair to expect the kids and I to hang out while they continue this childishness. They are both grown men, they need to devote themselves to being the best men that each of them can be and to promoting the best environment for their family that they can-which will also require that they accept each other as teammates in this game called life and work AS A TEAM.

A team whose members are too busy trying to be the "star" are the teams that lose.

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But you have known eachother for years, is there something NEW that has arisen in the living dynamic that should cause a sudden frustration or struggle?
Not really. The only "sudden change" is that I told them both I'm no longer going to enable them to continue this self-destructive behavior. It's OBVIOUS that the time they are spending focusing on ME is being taken advantage of to be used as an excuse for not working on themselves individually or their relationship with one another in the family.
SO I am taking back some of that time to focus on things I need to work on, and give them time to focus on what THEY need to work on.

Quote:
If you are feeling like a switch that someone else has to turn on and off then maybe you need to look at ways you can be more proactive in making both relationships grow.
Jesus if you knew how often I've said that in a variety of ways! It's amazing how well it works. Every relationship I have that I've sought to help them improve their other relationships, has gotten deeper between myself and them. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Doesn't matter if they are a friend, a sibling or a lover. When you help someone improve THEMSELF and THEIR RELATIONSHIPS it generally improves YOUR relationship with them as well.


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I think everyone should ...but then again, it might just be time for me to leave
Well if you do leave-be sure to let us know where you go!
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  #26  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Morningglory629 View Post
Is LR putting a "stop" to your relationship with her or is she telling you her happiness is only complete when the two of you are working to work it all out because when one of you is hurting then she is hurting and if one of you causes the hurt to the other then her hurt is doubled.
WOW! MG, I'm totally impressed that you *nailed* the situation perfectly... at least that aspect of it. What you wrote above is practically a direct quote from LR, which is amazing considering you're stated lack of experience in such a living arrangement. I was stunned when I read it, kudos for your intuitive insight!!!

Maca...

My heart aches for all of you. You know how much I care about your family and I don't wish to be perceived as "taking sides" but rather trying to understand & support each member of your family as best as I'm able.

Perhaps this will help: You have two beautiful boys (A & D) that you love with all your heart, yes? And those two boys are *very* competitive with each other for the love of the adults in the family. D in particularly having gone to the extreme of hurting A & competing with him at every turn because he perceived that A had a higher "status" within the family.

You love them *both* even though they are extremely different in almost every way. You were torn, frustrated and hurt every time they competed with each other, hurt each other, fought with each other in an attempt to "win" your love. It was completely unnecessary... they both already had (and still have) a permanent place in your heart that no one could take away from them. But D's insecurities caused all kinds of behavior that put the entire family in total chaos. Sound familiar?

Did you honestly expect A & D to be inseparable, deeply bonded and "best friends" as some children (like my brother and I) are? No, that's unrealistic given the circumstances. However, wasn't your deepest desire for them to at least care for each other as brothers and help each other instead of hurting and competing with each other? If you had one wish for their relationship, wouldn't that be it? How would you feel if that were possible, if they were mature enough to grasp that and work towards that goal? What would your family life look like if that were achievable?

Since it was not possible, wasn't a relationship put on "hold" because it was detrimental to the entire family NOT to do so? Until that one child could learn how to be loving and non-competitive and stop hurting everyone around him due to his insecurities...?? *ESPECIALLY* his brother??

It's not really very different from you & GG at all. When two people are part of a family, it doesn't really matter what their position in the family is... it hurts everyone who loves them when there is a lack of harmony and forgiveness between them.

I thought the sermon we attended on Sunday spoke to just that very fact. We all spent that sermon thinking about a specific couple on the other side of the room - rather than thinking about how it might apply to our own personal lives instead. Perhaps you should listen to it again and contemplate forgiveness and your relationship w/GG instead?

Forgiveness. Consider that for a moment. In the case of A & D, A had never even *done* anything to D to deserve his animosity... other than be loved by you, LR, GG & E. In fact, it was the other way around... A had every reason to be resentful & distrustful of D... But his sweet little soul wouldn't tolerate that, he gave brotherly love unconditionally despite the transgressions of the past. GG has never hurt you to the level that D attempted to hurt A. Is your 10-year-old son really the most mature, compassionate, spiritually whole male in your household??? I don't think so, but he's the one who has chosen to walk the high road. I think his example should humble you. It humbles me just thinking about it.

P.S. For everyone else on the board, I apologize for being vague about details of the relationship between LR & Maca's sons - but I am respecting their privacy. LR & Maca may chose to share those details but it's not my place to do so.
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Last edited by midnightsun; 05-04-2010 at 08:57 PM. Reason: Adding my P.S.
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  #27  
Old 05-04-2010, 09:36 PM
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I like your analogy midnight. Think what lessons you are teaching the boys GG and Maca. They could learn so much about how to be in the world if you figure it out.

I totally get the analogy of two competitive people on a team that fails because of their competition between each other.
I hope you both get here this summer guys. I think you could learn a lot from watching how Nerdist and Mono are together. They spend much time allowing the other to be the super star. It makes them more the super store just by doing that.
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  #28  
Old 05-05-2010, 12:47 AM
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[QUOTE=Morningglory629;28361]
Quote:
If you feel like you have been closer recently than you have in over a decade then why are you struggling?
My struggle is with a friendship with GG. LR and I are closer then ever not GG and I.

Quote:
Are you two very different people struggling to find commonalities other than LR?
Yes, Im a guys guy he is not. Im a take charge guy , he is a wait and see guy. Im a protector he is the one that gets protected. We are very different.

Quote:
It seems you should know what those are by now. Are you both competing about who has the best/closest relationship with LR?
I have to addmit that I do feel a competitive streak in regards to LR's attention. For 10 1/2 years I thought I had her full attention and in the last 7 months I have had to learn how to share it.

Quote:
From reading this forum there is an indication you have equal footing so should feel confident in your relationship and status. Or are you feeling some other issue is making it a struggle with GG? Just state the problem with developing a friendship with GG.
The biggest thing holding me back is fear. LR and he hurt me more than anyone else ever has( with the affair) I loved LR then and I love her now so I have forgave her and I have let her back in close to my heart( knowing full well that she could hurt me again) I did not and do not "love" GG so letting him in close to my heart by forming a friendship more then just "buddies" scares the shit out of me and Im ( as I stated above) a protector. I even protect myself.

Quote:
Is LR putting a "stop" to your relationship with her or is she telling you her happiness is only complete when the two of you are working to work it all out because when one of you is hurting then she is hurting and if one of you causes the hurt to the other then her hurt is doubled.
She is telling me that without GG and I being "friends" then she cant be happy with either of us. She has put a stop to a specific part of our relationship, she has not put a stop to our marriage. She has said she is "pulling back" As far as one of us hurting... I cant speak for anyone else but I can say that there has been no need or desire by GG or myself to push for more of a relationship between him and I. What happens is LR gets pissed because we are not friends, then he writes me an email saying how he wants to be friends, then I call a meeting and we talk about wanting to be friends, but nothing continues beyond that ( till the next time LR blows up).

Quote:
But you have known eachother for years, is there something NEW that has arisen in the living dynamic that should cause a sudden frustration or struggle?
Known each other yes.Our living dynamic as it stands now is only 7 months old and over the last 7 months things change almost daily. So I cant pin point somthing that has changed because everything has been changing. Does that make sense?

Quote:
If you are feeling like a switch that someone else has to turn on and off then maybe you need to look at ways you can be more proactive in making both relationships grow.
I was using the switch analogy in regards to the fact that I find it.........disappointing.... that anyone thinks that I can just turn off my feelings and turn off my role in there life. I didnt say that anyone had to turn me on or off. I dont operate that way.
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  #29  
Old 05-05-2010, 02:58 AM
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I was using the switch analogy in regards to the fact that I find it.........disappointing.... that anyone thinks that I can just turn off my feelings and turn off my role in there life. I didnt say that anyone had to turn me on or off. I dont operate that way.
I understand...and emotions can't be turned off and on like that. I can relate to what you have said, I fall pretty much inline...

reading your side...and understanding a small part of the storey it reads almost like a big brother little brother dynamic. I don't have brothers but thats almost how it feels...
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  #30  
Old 05-05-2010, 07:25 AM
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Aw Maca! I am so sorry you are hurting from the affair and the trust is just not there yet. I didn't realize the living arrangements were fairly new. I thought it was a couple of years in. I guess we (women) forget how fragile even the tough guys are. But really what makes you happiest is being part of if not the sole reason LR is happy. Nothing would make her happier than having a haven of love security with you. That means accepting GG but more importantly standing in his shoes for a moment, being sensitive to the guilt that may be prohibiting him from really reaching out to you, and being brave enough to accept that GG has his own proprietary stake of LR's heart because of their very long and intimate connection. That is a tough pill to swallow! Believe me, in a sense I can relate. My bf tells me this all the time: he is soooo unhappy (distraught) when KT and I are at eachother's throats. It makes him physically ill, and he is a guy's guy too. And although KT and I may not see eye to eye on everything (ok-most things), we need to remember we aren't hurting eachother as much as we are hurting our relationship with P. You seem to be such a great guy, very supportive and generous, keep working on the GG relationship because it will bring you and LR that much closer. I know you have heard it all before...same BS just a different day...but keep your chin up and moving this crazy life forward. We need to read success stories on here!!!

Had a great day today...sending those positive vibes to you!

Last edited by Morningglory629; 05-05-2010 at 07:43 AM.
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