Looking before leaping

Kimbre

New member
Hello. I am new to poly, at least on a personal scale, and am seeking any feedback or advice as I contemplate a possibly poly relationship. To briefly recap salient parts of my intro, I am female, single, and in my early 40's. Poly isn't a new idea to me and one I've always thought interesting, though I never thought it would apply to me personally.

I find myself faced with the idea now because I am very attracted to a friend who is poly and in a relationship. He's been partnered since I met him a little over a year ago, and normally that knowledge would have been enough to dissuade me from being interested. But I learned shortly after meeting him that he was poly. That idea seems to have been lurking in my brain because as we have gotten to know each other a little better and see each other more, I've become increasingly attracted to him over the past few months and it seems to be reciprocated.

We met through a group of mutual friends that gathers three or four weekends a month on a fairly regular basis. A week and a half ago after a long evening spent with a small gathering of our circle, we went out for coffee and talked for over three hours, until the wee hours of the morning when we were both exhausted. While we have voice chatted several times at night on the computer, this was the first time I had had that much time in person with him where it was just the two of us. I quite liked it.

At any rate, it seems that if we continue on our present path, at some point soon there is going to be a discussion about our stances on relationships and what we might want out of anything arising between us. While I am not certain he is aware I know he is poly, I suspect he does given the open and forthright nature of our mutual friend who told me about it. Since I know this will be an issue if anything is to happen between us past friendship, I've been doing some reading lately. (In particular, I've read The Ethical Slut as well as much of Franklin Veaux's writing and other websites.) For myself, I had never thought about being poly myself in the past, not because I strongly identified as monogamous, but because a) I could never see the situation occurring and b) I feared that I might be too jealous and insecure.

The latter reason is still a possible issue, but I am older and perhaps a little wiser than I used to be. This isn't to say that I won't still be jealous and insecure, but life has changed an awful lot for me over the past few years. As a result, getting to know and learning to like myself better has been an ongoing issue with which learning the skills required to be successfully poly would seem to dovetail nicely. From what I've read, learning better communication skills and emotional management are commonly acquired once on the poly path and not required to start. Or so I hope.

For those new to poly as I am, I've most frequently read about them being in an established couple and either being the one who wants to expand or the one put in the uncomfortable position of being informed the other wants more. Obviously, neither of these situations fit me. If my friend and I do go into a closer relationship, I am trying to do so with my eyes wide open. It's also not simply a matter of casually saying, "Oh, I like this guy, but he's poly so I need to consider it." He is one of the most genuinely good people I have ever met, which draws me. He is also the first guy to whom I have felt an attraction to in a very long time where there isn't some sort of exception that would need to be made, in the sense of, "We're mostly compatible but..." This is not to say he's perfect, but I feel both a recognition of and comfort with him that is incredibly rare for me to find. These things are precious enough that I can't seem to dismiss the possibility of a relationship just because he has the capacity and desire to love more than one person at a time.

And finally, as I have been reading, I've realized that an interest in poly could not actually be all about him anyway. I can see that the point where I am in my life and my desire to build my own group of friends and family might indeed be happily pursued on a poly path.

Now we're coming to the question part (finally!) He currently has one partner with whom he lives, although this was entered into on a temporary basis. That could have changed; I don't know. I also don't know how their relationship is structured as far as labels or boundaries. Of the two other women he was dating, one moved out of state and doesn't seem to be an active relationship. The other has seemingly decided to keep things on a friendship level with him. I know his live in partner as she is also a member of our group; the other two I do not know although I believe one did come to a group event once.

I do wish to point out that I am not trying to borrow trouble, but I am trying to be prepared as much as possible in advance. While I hope that they wouldn't choose to use a label of primary/secondary, the fact is that she does live with him currently and would have the lion's share of his time and attention. She also has seniority, such as it was, if such things are accounted to matter. How does one accept being "secondary" without being made to feel somehow inferior? What would the difference be between a loving second(ary) relationship and someone he just has on the side for extra fun? The first I could be interested in, especially with potential for growth; the second is not something I would want. My brain sort of knows the difference, but my heart doesn't and I can't find a way to understanding. And yes, a lot of this will depend on how things are with him and his partner, and what he wants, but how do I address it with him?

Since we haven't spoken of this yet, I also don't know of what limitations may be placed on any potential relationship. I can certainly understand some sexual limitations in the name of safety, but I am not sure I could accept more arbitrary ones such as he could never stay overnight. Again, how does one contrive not to feel lesser in such an arrangement? I can see his current partner wanting assurance that she is special, but how would I receive the same when I would be cut out of parts of his life?

Any answers, thoughts, or feedback would be appreciated. I do want to reiterate that I am not trying to anticipate trouble or build this up too quickly into something it isn't. Rather, I like this person a great deal and definitely want his friendship if nothing else. And even more importantly, I love our group of friends and value those connections greatly. What I am trying to do is determine if this is something I should even attempt to pursue (and if so, how?) or regretfully decline, at least with him.

Thanks! (And sorry that was so long.)
 
Hi Kimbre,

You asked several questions about being a secondary, and I just wanted to make sure you had read what Franklin Veaux has to say on the subject:

It's also important to remember that every relationship is unique, just as the people in the relationship are unique. So many things don't have standard answers. Instead, you have to sit down with your (prospective boyfriend or partner) and talk plainly with each other about what your wants, needs, and expectations are, and if you can satisfy those things with each other or at least work out a compromise that you both like.

How do you address it with him? You just sit down and talk. Nothing fancy is needed, no scripts or fancy speeches, just heartfelt communication. I guess you just take a deep breath and then jump. "I'd like to talk about us." Productive communication is learned mostly by practice, but I think this "first conversation" we're talking about should be a relatively easy one. Not that I can guarantee you'll find out you and he are compatible, just that it'll probably be a fairly pleasant conversation.

I'll see if I can think of more helpful stuff to tell you as this thread continues.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Hi, Kevin.

Thanks for both the welcome and the reply. :)

I have read those sections of Veaux's site, which is where I think my possible fears first solidified, though I imagine that should not be taken to be as dire as it sounds. And yes, hopefully there will be a talk soonish, especially before I drive myself crazy considering it all.

I suppose I was also wondering if anyone else has entered into a polyamorous life in a similar matter and if so, how did it progress for them? Am I doing the right thing, in a proper manner, of trying to educate myself before anything possibly happens? In the sense of I think I am interested in poly for my own sake and not just his, the answer there would be yes, but I still wonder if I should let him broach the subject.

If I can think of any more specific questions, I will post them, but any relevant comments or suggestions are most appreciated.

And then there's just the fact that we only see each other a few times a month and I don't want to push things. I've already done a decent amount of reading, so trying to gain more information/insight gives me something to do while enduring the slow, sweet agony of seeing if anything is even going to happen...
 
I am "a third person" who joined a legally-married couple and formed a V with them. We were already friends before we became a poly unit, and they always assured me that I was a co-primary, not a secondary -- yet I often felt like a secondary during the first few years. It takes awhile to invest enough sweat equity into a poly relationship that you *feel* as comfortable in the group as the original couple feels.

There's never anything bad about learning all you can about polyamory before talking about it with this guy, but there's also no reason you have to force yourself to wait and wait and wait until he brings it up. If you want to talk with him about it, go for it. Initiate the conversation. I think you'll mostly just be asking him questions, at least in the beginning, so I can't imagine him seeing it as a threatening conversation.

The thing about "secondary partners" is that they are often "hot bi babes" -- HBB -- a.k.a. considered "unicorns" who are being "added to a marriage" (a hetero man and his bi wife) to "complete the marriage." Often the marriage is jealously guarded against the secondary, with many rules such as that the secondary can't have another partners, can't meet the family, can't have kids, has to help raise the couple's kids and do the couple's housework, has to be equally in love with both members of the couple, etc. etc. etc.

That particular type of scenario, though very common, doesn't seem to be the type of thing that you are facing, although I could be wrong. The only way to know for sure is to bring it up with the guy and ask. Given that you have read Veaux's stuff on the subject, you should be able to protect your own interests.

Good luck and keep us posted,
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I have read those sections of Veaux's site, which is where I think my possible fears first solidified, though I imagine that should not be taken to be as dire as it sounds.

...

I suppose I was also wondering if anyone else has entered into a polyamorous life in a similar matter and if so, how did it progress for them? Am I doing the right thing, in a proper manner, of trying to educate myself before anything possibly happens?

I think that Veaux's book, and site are great... I also think that the chapters/pages on secondary are ... Overly negative. Only you, your potential partner and your potential metamour can determine what your relationships (all 4 of them: 3 pairs, one triad) will look like.

Most if the things they warn about are not 'poly' problems , but rather 'interpersonal relationship' problems. Ie. enforcing your own boundaryies., not letting people treat you with disrespect, not investing in a relationship more than your partner has invested, etc, etc. all good advice for ANY relationship, sexual or not.

I think research is great (and I did a LOT of it, and continue to do so), but in the end only YOU can decide if this relationship is going to give you what you want.

Against the advice of many - including some here - I'm exploring a relationship that I thought would include being secondary with the primary having veto rights. Turns out she doesn't want veto rights, and is committed to me being part of his life long term. Guess I mean that the outside often looks different than the inside...don't judge a book by its cover and all that! Good luck!
 
Wow! You definitely have done your homework! I guess we'd have much less drama displayed in these forums if everyone entering into a poly situation was as active beforehand as you are. Kudos to you!

I second Kevin... just take up the subject with your friend. Since you value the friendship - and most likely he does, too - I don't think much harm can be done by initiating the conversation.

Not everyone enters polyamory by opening up a pre-existing relationship. I was poly even before my first ever relationship and have requested to keep all my relationships open for possible new encounters. Both my partners were introduced to poly by me, and their takes on the subject have changed during the time.

My partner Mark was in a similar situation than you are when we started dating. He was brave enough to start a relationship with a married woman. I never called him "secondary" - but I really do not call him "co-primary", either. We just did not give this any labels. He seems to be happy for what he's got - we just moved in together all three and operate more and more like one family.
 
Thanks for the replies! I wanted to respond to a few quotes.

I am "a third person" who joined a legally-married couple and formed a V with them. We were already friends before we became a poly unit, and they always assured me that I was a co-primary, not a secondary -- yet I often felt like a secondary during the first few years. It takes awhile to invest enough sweat equity into a poly relationship that you *feel* as comfortable in the group as the original couple feels.

That's understandable and something I could certainly work with as long as the possibility of growth was present. My problem would be if it were a set "inferior" role.

(Next quote is in regards to "hot bi babes.")

That particular type of scenario, though very common, doesn't seem to be the type of thing that you are facing, although I could be wrong. The only way to know for sure is to bring it up with the guy and ask. Given that you have read Veaux's stuff on the subject, you should be able to protect your own interests.

Good luck and keep us posted,
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

That's definitely not the scenario. To add to the long list of things I don't know about his situation, I don't know if his partner is poly herself, nor whether the other women he dated were. Further, his current partner was not living with him when I met them and that move has always been presented by both of them as a matter of situational convenience.

It seems to be that he pursues separate relationships (well, as much as one can when poly.) I know he's still been dating others since she moved in, but I don't know if anything works any differently since she is there. I'll find out, I hope.

I think that Veaux's book, and site are great... I also think that the chapters/pages on secondary are ... Overly negative. Only you, your potential partner and your potential metamour can determine what your relationships (all 4 of them: 3 pairs, one triad) will look like.

It certainly wasn't a very optimistic section, you're right. I do think in retrospect that it might have been well suited, if inadvertently so, to highlighting the different forms and flavors poly can take. It's at least something valuable to be aware of and I now how an inkling of what I'd want.

Against the advice of many - including some here - I'm exploring a relationship that I thought would include being secondary with the primary having veto rights. Turns out she doesn't want veto rights, and is committed to me being part of his life long term. Guess I mean that the outside often looks different than the inside...don't judge a book by its cover and all that! Good luck!

Thanks. :) I hope I'll have a use for all my new-found knowledge soon. I will say that veto rights would quite probably be a deal breaker for me. There's more than enough for me to manage in strengthening my communication skills, being more forthright about my needs, and having to learn to trust not just one but possibly multiple people that I can't see putting the fate of such a venture in the hands of someone who could possibly be adversarial.

Wow! You definitely have done your homework! I guess we'd have much less drama displayed in these forums if everyone entering into a poly situation was as active beforehand as you are. Kudos to you!

I appreciate that. I find that I am both surprised that I have chosen to seriously investigate polyamory and yet not surprised. I'm going to take that as a good sign, actually. It all initially boiled down to the fact that there's a potential for this person to mean too much for me to pass up the possibility, but that has since expanded.

I second Kevin... just take up the subject with your friend. Since you value the friendship - and most likely he does, too - I don't think much harm can be done by initiating the conversation.

Possibly not, but I do have issues with self-confidence that I've been working on. Until I get a blatantly clear sign (something along the lines of a billboard on Times Square) that he is interested in more than friendship, I'll be staying quiet about it.

My partner Mark was in a similar situation than you are when we started dating. He was brave enough to start a relationship with a married woman. I never called him "secondary" - but I really do not call him "co-primary", either. We just did not give this any labels. He seems to be happy for what he's got - we just moved in together all three and operate more and more like one family.

That sounds lovely. I can only hope that my own outcome will be as fortunate.

We've been strengthening this friendship quite a bit lately and I'll be continuing on that course. We did spend about four hours chatting last night, so at least I think I can be reasonably sure he is not displeased with my company. There are a couple of events in the near future that could possibly provide opportunities for things to blossom, so we'll see.

Thanks, everyone.
 
Thanks. :) I hope I'll have a use for all my new-found knowledge soon. I will say that veto rights would quite probably be a deal breaker for me. There's more than enough for me to manage in strengthening my communication skills, being more forthright about my needs, and having to learn to trust not just one but possibly multiple people that I can't see putting the fate of such a venture in the hands of someone who could possibly be adversarial.

Honestly, I *gave* them to her. At the start I was a lot more invested in my relationship with her (28 year friendship) than with him. I didn't (still don't) want anything disrupting that, and figured it was safer if she got uncomfortable that she be able to say "stop". And then she did. And it was bad. And she realized how much she hurt us both, and took it back and has been wonderful ever since :)
 
Honestly, I *gave* them to her. At the start I was a lot more invested in my relationship with her (28 year friendship) than with him. I didn't (still don't) want anything disrupting that, and figured it was safer if she got uncomfortable that she be able to say "stop". And then she did. And it was bad. And she realized how much she hurt us both, and took it back and has been wonderful ever since :)

It certainly makes sense in that situation and it's awesome that it ultimately ended up working out well for everyone. In this potential situation, while I do know his partner as a member of our group, she is not as active a participant so I haven't seen her all that much nor do I know her that well.

I'm trying to be positive about any potentials, so I would certainly expect to be friendly, polite, and respectful. But I have no idea how she would act nor what restrictions they might have agreed would need to be imposed. I just can't see handing someone who is currently at best a friendly acquaintance the power to smash apart a valuable relationship. Actually, I'm not sure at what point I'd ever be comfortable making myself that vulnerable to someone who has anything less than a primary interest in the relationship. (I may have worded that incorrectly as I do understand that everyone in a poly relationship, however connected, is involved with each other. However, when it is a situation where my feelings are nothing more than collateral damage and a source of possible upset to a shared lover's feelings, I can't see giving that person control.)
 
Veto power is usually discouraged by experienced polyfolk, though there are cases where it seems to work okay.

Glad we could be of help, and hope you'll keep us posted if you're willing.

Here's to friendships that grow and grow!
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
It certainly makes sense in that situation and it's awesome that it ultimately ended up working out well for everyone. In this potential situation, while I do know his partner as a member of our group, she is not as active a participant so I haven't seen her all that much nor do I know her that well.
...
(I may have worded that incorrectly as I do understand that everyone in a poly relationship, however connected, is involved with each other. However, when it is a situation where my feelings are nothing more than collateral damage and a source of possible upset to a shared lover's feelings, I can't see giving that person control.)

Ya, it was a hell of a ride, and it could have gone (even more) horribly wrong. There is still lingering effects from it (I have some trust issues to start with), but we all seem to be willing to work on it. And as I learn more about that/those conversations in their relationship I realise how much she has risked to allow us this room to grow into our own relationship and am completely blown away by her strength to retract a veto that was already given.

I certainly don't think some random acquaintance should have veto or actually anyone who is not directly involved in the relationship. My friend actively refuses to have it anymore. And I wouldn't give it to her again.

I hope you keep us up to date (if you want to).
 
I hope you keep us up to date (if you want to).

If something happens worth updating, I will certainly do so.

This past weekend was slow and our group ended up not getting together. (Bad weather, sick kids, etc.) He and I did spend four hours online Saturday night/Sunday morning, exploring a new game and chatting. Any serious conversation would have to be broached in person as far as I am concerned, though.

With any luck, there might be a chance to spend some time together this weekend. If I can arrange it, I suspect whether he's willing to meet me will tell me a lot.
 
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Well. I'm still lurking about here, quite happily, and I thought I'd stop to give an update. In some ways not much changed. In others... well, there's an apocryphal saying/curse, "May you lead an interesting life." Mainly, if anyone has an advice or opinions on what has happened, I'd love to hear them.

A little less that two weeks ago I got to spend a substantial amount of time with my friend, who I will now call C. for convenience's sake. There was a weekend event I was attending for which C. was an organizer, so I volunteered to spend some extra time helping out. We had dinner the night before, did the set up that night, and then the event ran nine hours the next day. Half of that we spent at the registration desk, talking, and when all was cleaned up we went out for coffee and talked for another three-plus hours. In just under a thirty hour period, we spent about nineteen of them together. I love spending time with him, and we can't seem to stop talking unless exhaustion has set in or we're getting kicked out of a closing restaurant. (We live in the same general area, but I am about forty-five minutes away from his town. Not a deal breaker, but also not around the corner.)

In all of our hours and hours of talking, the one thing we had never talked about up until that point was how we felt about each other, or what our time together might turn into. The next week, we finally had that talk one night online.

I dearly wish I had a transcript of it, though, because I am a little confused. We talked a lot about how we can both be private people and C. said that he compartmentalizes his life a lot. He stated there were people he only let into certain circles and a few people who transcended boundaries, adding that he thought I would be one that transcended them. I talked about how I was trying very hard to trust more and to open up, and that the people with whom I could do this were important to me. All good.

Then he said he liked me, but that usually when he met a woman he liked and could talk with, they'd then jump into bed and he didn't want that to happen with me. He also said that he didn't want to be interested right now, but that he didn't want to close the door on anything either. My pride insisted that I point out that I hadn't offered anything to him yet, to which he agreed, but I also had to joke (and I made it quite obviously a joke) that it figures that I'd have the notable distinction of being the first woman turned down by a self described polyamorous slut. Oh, and he also said that he used to get into any relationship offered to him, because it was there, but that in trying to build his sense of self worth, he wanted to be more deliberate about it. Okay...

The upshot is that we decided/agreed that we were friends and would be doing things together as such. This wasn't a bad thing, and I wasn't exactly unhappy. On the other hand, it wasn't exactly what I wanted to hear either. Overall, though, it seemed a good outcome. Friendship for now, maybe more later?

I am trying to make a lot of changes in my life lately. Or more aptly, I'm trying to be more myself and not worry about what anyone else might think. I am pagan and have been for over twenty years, but it is still something I want to incorporate more fully into my life. In a similar vein, I have long had an interest in BDSM and have had a mostly neglected profile on Fetlife for four years. Since things with C. had come to some sort of current resolution, I decided I needed to go work on another area of my life.

I went to Fetlife to update my profile and to see if I could finally get involved with the local community. I was looking through the area members and saw a guy who looked interesting. I went to the profile and surprise! It was C. This was not an interest either of us had broached. Erm. Shit. So yeah, I meet a guy who seems to be my match if there ever was one, get rejected by him before I ever offer anything, and then find out the next day that he could also be an extremely good match in other ways.

Normally, I drink socially. I'm not sure when the last time I got flat out drunk was and I have long had a general policy of not drinking if mad or upset. That night, I drank two bottles of wine, mostly to try to shut my brain up. This did a great job on my motor skills and not so much to quiet my thoughts.

That was the start to my weekend. By the end of it, when the dust cleared, I contacted C. and asked if we could talk. Previously we had both discussed wanting to be honest with each other and I wasn't comfortable knowing this about him without him being aware of it as well. From what he had said earlier, this was definitely one of the areas of his life he protected from others, as is polyamory (and both are largely due to wanting to keep his job.) Also, I could think of several good reasons to tell him and only two poor reasons not to do so, one of which was that I could imagine it being one of the most exquisitely embarrassing conversation of my life.

So, we talked. Of course. He was glad I had told him about it, which made me feel good, and we agreed on this not being anything we cared to share with the group of friends through whom we met. (If I had had the nerve to follow up on Fetlife when I first moved here, I could have possibly met him at least half a year before I did. Grr...) He then spent a few hours answering my questions about BDSM (despite lots of curiosity, some knowledge, and a hell of a lot of imagination, I have little solid experience. Alas.) He was also telling me about the local community, vetting my profile, checking out those on my friends list, and offering to take me to some munches and such around here.

So. I don't know exactly how to go on here, although I suppose the best thing is not to worry about it too much. I do have a very bad tendency to overthink things. We're both at a point of change in our lives. From the poly standpoint, he has two partners, one who moved to another state and one whom he lives with. From his Dom standpoint, both were subs, but he told me he's let go of the one who moved because it wasn't the relationship he thought it was, and the live-in interest wasn't a sub to him though she claims to be. He's also mentioned that he's going to be getting his own place soon. I don't assume that he no longer loves the out-of-state former sub, nor do I think that wanting his own place means an end to the relationship he has with his live-in lover. It seems like both are in flux.

I would dearly love to think that maybe he'd rather get his current affairs straight before starting anything with me, but I'm also aware that this could be poisonously hopeful for me. (And I guess if I had a question, it would be what your thoughts on that would be.)

In the meantime, when the chance to share his company in whatever venue arises, I plan to enjoy it.

Whew.

Thanks for reading. :)
 
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I don't think you should feel rejected. At all!

No, he has basically told you quite clearly that he highly values the relationship that has been developing between the two of you. He clearly does not want to just fuck you right off the bat and then possibly just disappear - he appreciates the place you have in his life, and genuinely likes you! You are not just someone whose pants he wants to get into. He wants what you have to continue and grow closer, it seems to me.

I would say this is a very, very good sign that he wants more than just a friendship, but he wants to do it more thoughtfully. The only thing is that it can be very frustrating if it moves more slowly than you want or are used to, but you never know how soon he could be ready for more - and with the BDSM aspect, well, there is more potential for him to think about another side of his relationship with you. So for now, it seems like a good thing to me.
 
It sounds like he wants to get his house in order before moving forward with you. From what you've said, for your purposes, that's a better situation than "sure, come on 'round and jump on the old giggle stick!"

Your initial reaction was most likely due to feelings of being "friend zoned," but in this case that may not be the worst thing ever. Give him time to set things right and try very hard to stop over-thinking things. It's never a good idea to enter a new relationship when there's preexisting drama already going when you step on stage.
 
I don't think you should feel rejected. At all!

No, he has basically told you quite clearly that he highly values the relationship that has been developing between the two of you. He clearly does not want to just fuck you right off the bat and then possibly just disappear - he appreciates the place you have in his life, and genuinely likes you! You are not just someone whose pants he wants to get into. He wants what you have to continue and grow closer, it seems to me.

I would say this is a very, very good sign that he wants more than just a friendship, but he wants to do it more thoughtfully. The only thing is that it can be very frustrating if it moves more slowly than you want or are used to, but you never know how soon he could be ready for more - and with the BDSM aspect, well, there is more potential for him to think about another side of his relationship with you. So for now, it seems like a good thing to me.

I'm very much hoping something will grow between us, so I'm glad that it may not be my imagination. :) And I am in no hurry. Just trying to find a happy balance between having hope while enjoying the friendship and trying not to overthink things or otherwise be stupid. I'm not good at letting people get close, though I am working on that, and when you add that to the feeling I have that he matches with me remarkably well; strengths, flaws, and all - I can be patient. (And I have other things to do as well.)

It sounds like he wants to get his house in order before moving forward with you. From what you've said, for your purposes, that's a better situation than "sure, come on 'round and jump on the old giggle stick!"

Your initial reaction was most likely due to feelings of being "friend zoned," but in this case that may not be the worst thing ever. Give him time to set things right and try very hard to stop over-thinking things. It's never a good idea to enter a new relationship when there's preexisting drama already going when you step on stage.

It is better for me. I'm trying to take more chances, but I don't know if I will ever be the dive into bed type. One minor thing to clarify - being friend-zoned for now wasn't really the problem. I had (have?) very mixed feelings there, depending on mood but right now it seems to equate to being able to have a close friend without having to be overly cautious about the question of sex screwing things up. (After everything so far, I imagine if we choose to be lovers, it will be deliberate.) What got me was deciding that I needed to move on to other areas of focus and then finding him there, too.

It turns out that he left today to go spend the weekend with the out of state lover. Despite his tendency to let odd bits drop (like telling me she's no longer his sub), I have no idea if he is going to visit, to discuss/alter their relationship, or both. I am curious, but I wouldn't be surprised to be enlightened (to whatever point is needed) at some point.

More interestingly right now, from a poly standpoint, this visit isn't greatly bothering me. That's... very weird for me, but I think in a good way. The worst thing I feel is disappointment that I won't see him this weekend. It's not that I think I am never going to get jealous - I still could have that hit this weekend - but I seem to be able to deal with knowing that even if we do end up more closely together, I won't have any sort of automatic claim to him. In this sense, it actually makes the time he has and hopefully will spend with me have more meaning. It wasn't a fun initial thought, but it's slowly making sense. And it could all be worthwhile.

And odder still... as much as I can happily think about him, it's not exactly disturbing to think that if I were to run into someone tomorrow that I'm free to potentially think about them as well. Practically speaking, with me that isn't a very likely scenario, but it is a nice thought. Who knew?
 
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Sounds like good news to me. :)
 
Sounds like good news to me. :)

Agreed. Definitely good news. I am happy for you, things seem to proceed to the right direction :)

And odder still... as much as I can happily think about him, it's not exactly disturbing to think that if I were to run into someone tomorrow that I'm free to potentially think about them as well. Practically speaking, with me that isn't a very likely scenario, but it is a nice thought. Who knew?

This. This is one of the fundamental reasons I chose to practise poly. Not only for myself but my partners too - I want all my loves to have the same freedom. As it is in my life and in theirs, the freedom is mostly not put into practise - but it exists. The freedom of thought, freedom of feelings. How liberating!
 
Overthinking?

I have one of those thinking brains. I finally broke down and started taking sleeping pills, totally mild half the time they do not work!

I have always advised my daughters to never marry for love, but to let friendships and allow to develop grow. My youngest daughter broke it off with a guy who was mad for her, she for him and great in bed, but one day while talking to me she realized she didn't like him. One gone guy.

I got started on all this before Primary-secondary and all the confusing anagrams had been invented,I mean NSA? I use ropes or scarves. I thought NSA was the guys reading my mail.

I find this compulsion to label stuff has gotten out of hand. I mean I am a dominant, but I know I am submitting to a sub's needs. My needs? Hmmm I do seem to get them handled, but I am a very focus on my partners needs, I find it gives them the space to focus on mine.

I lived in a house with three subs and one clear primary, in came this total earth mother mom. Now again we didn't have labels, so mom just became mom. Guys sort of came and went, but a couple stayed for a good long spell. I've never been involved in the my house your house, my time with...schedules (well except when the girls got together and made my schedule for sleeping and days alone with, which honestly was much nicer.)

Expect exactly what happens to happen does seem to be a good rule of thumb. Hard with that overthinking brain to not get attached to some of those operas and fab movie scripts we write. ( my advice is write them out as nice quirky novels)

Now one really interesting exercise I learned from a Therapist I worked with in CA many moons ago. She had people make a list of all the positives in one column and all the negatives in the other.

Really work on the list and rewrite (I tell people to write lists all the time and rewrite them for at least thirty days)

Then tear that list right down the middle.
Throw away the negatives. Fuck 'em!

Everytime I worked on my negatives, I found them to get bigger, stronger, more complex and my life sucked infinitely more.

Her attitude was work on your positive shit. I find when I do that, adding one new positive each week to the development, pretty soon, you are so fucking busy being focused and overthinking new ways to makes each of these positives even more positive, you just don't have anytime for the negatives.

I can give you a list longer than any ten people' swarms (which are a great deal like people's arms, but auto correct helps me daily) of the stuff I suck at and all the bad qualities.

I got voted the Dad most kids want as a father by twenty of my brainy daughter's friends at Stanford. A few even would call me for advice. These are kids I never met until she graduated.

Now I do recommend at least a biannual bath, if you are amoungst the unwashed, but more fun working on stuff that you like and are good at. Get better at that stuff.

Folks who don't like me being the way I am have discovered I am NOT the only place on earth, so really easy to avoid me, or stand on the other side of the room should they find themselves at a party with me.

Lots of people say I am an amazing guy (but of course they have no idea of some of the insane and twisted stuff going on in my brain) and so

This sounds like a guy who likes you plus
Guy wants to take it slow. Plus
I am assuming the Fetlife profiles are compatible. Plus
You like this guy. Plus

Now if all thing turns out great, remember we warned you
 
Agreed. Definitely good news. I am happy for you, things seem to proceed to the right direction :)

Thanks. :)

This. This is one of the fundamental reasons I chose to practise poly. Not only for myself but my partners too - I want all my loves to have the same freedom. As it is in my life and in theirs, the freedom is mostly not put into practise - but it exists. The freedom of thought, freedom of feelings. How liberating!

Very much so. I am not even sure how much I would actively use such freedom, but it seems to make sense to have it. (And I probably would always be pleasantly surprised I had a reason to use it.)

It's really interesting for me. I have never felt like I have much fit in or fit societal norms, though it's also not like I necessarily stand out, either. I'm just myself, good and bad, and also a little weird. Poly was something I knew about, but never seemed like it'd have a practical application for me. Monogamy certainly hasn't done much for me (never married, turned down one proposal.)

It's not just the freedom, though. It seems like being able to love more people would take the pressure off of both parties to be everything, perfectly, for the other. To me, this opens up possibilities. And as I think I said in the OP, the idea of being able to build my own family sounds incredible. Granted, I am nowhere near that since I'm just trying to get close to one person right now, but I like that the idea exists.

I started reading more about poly when this all started because I couldn't stop thinking about C. and knew it would be an issue. Regardless of how that goes, it's looking more like poly might have more to do with me. I like it!

Everytime I worked on my negatives, I found them to get bigger, stronger, more complex and my life sucked infinitely more.

Her attitude was work on your positive shit. I find when I do that, adding one new positive each week to the development, pretty soon, you are so fucking busy being focused and overthinking new ways to makes each of these positives even more positive, you just don't have anytime for the negatives.

That actually sounds like something I should put into practice. Gods know I can identify negatives; might be nice to be able to do a better job with the positives.

Lots of people say I am an amazing guy (but of course they have no idea of some of the insane and twisted stuff going on in my brain) and so

People sometimes think I am normal. I apparently am getting better at facades. In all fairness, I do tell them that it's called an internal monologue for damn good reasons.

This sounds like a guy who likes you plus
Guy wants to take it slow. Plus
I am assuming the Fetlife profiles are compatible. Plus
You like this guy. Plus

Now if all thing turns out great, remember we warned you

If it helps the chances of things turning out well, the warning is merrily acknowledged.
 
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