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  #51  
Old 04-30-2014, 07:25 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
I know for me, the LAST thing I want to be doing in post-sex cozy is relationship management talk about OTHER relationships. I rather be doing that when I'm emotionally prepared to go there, not when I'm wide open and and vulnerable.
I am the opposite. I have usually always had the best discussions about relationships, and life in general, while in bed with someone after fucking, or on a break in between fucking. My worst discussions about serious relationship issues were done over a cup of tea at the table.

So, while it may be for some that post-coital time is when people are feeling most vulnerable, it isn't that way for everyone. As I see it, Mags, he felt close to you and wanted to have a loving, honest discussion with you at that moment. I really don't see the fact that you'd just had sex as such a wrong move and something you need to focus on and turn into a big issue. I see your inner work in coming to terms with his interest on others as a more pressing need for you than making a big deal out of him having talked to you about Carla while in bed with you.
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"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 04-30-2014 at 07:27 PM.
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  #52  
Old 04-30-2014, 07:50 PM
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I see your inner work in coming to terms with his interest on others as a more pressing need for you than making a big deal out of him having talked to you about Carla while in bed with you.
I quite agree, and don't mean to make a big deal about it. It's not so much he told me right after the fucking, it's that he told me about their date 3 full days after it happened, when he could have told me 1 day before. I'm not mad about it, since he said he wanted time for himself to process how the date went, and what he found out about the importance of their relationship during the date, before he tried to put it into words for me.

But now I've had time to think about it, I do think I'd rather know about an impending date a day or 2 before! It's just nice to know his schedule, and where I fit in it, if nothing else.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #53  
Old 04-30-2014, 09:13 PM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Ginger wonders how we can get my heart to feel better around this, to get in line with the simple poly principles my head understands and endorses.
In my experience with having positive, rational thoughts about something being sabotaged by problematic emotions, it takes time. Particularly if the problematic emotions have a good reason for being there - as yours do. You had a pretty horrible experience with your ex. I know it was a long time ago and that Ginger isn't your ex but I think it'll take a while for your emotions to know that too.

Time, gentle exposure to the difficult area, celebrating small victories and making sure to take plenty of time and patience with yourself as you work through it.

I don't think there is a quick fix but I do think that some relationships are worth the effort.

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  #54  
Old 05-02-2014, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Ginger wonders how we can get my heart to feel better around this, to get in line with the simple poly principles my head understands and endorses.
I don't have much to add that other folks haven't already said, but I feel you here. You know time is my big bugaboo (well, one of them, but generally the more meatier of all the bugaboos), and I still wrestle with the head versus heart thing ("Of course he needs time to do x/y/z" versus "Why is he choosing to spend MORE time away from me?!").

For my particular issue, we just need to keep addressing it (I don't ask, nor do I want Chops to not go out - I want to deal with it when he does, and see if it gets more tolerable, or if it's something we need to change, or adjust), and I guess finding the little things (e.g., Ginger not giving you all the details of his other relationships) that help make it easier, despite your head telling you that it "should" be one way or another.

Heck, PM me (we're not all THAT far apart, geographically, I don't think) if you want to just get together over coffee (or even just virtually) and vent, if you just need to blow some steam. Sometimes, just carping about the stuff you're feeling lets it get acknowledged, felt, and able to be put aside for a bit.
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Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids (DanceGirl, 13; and PokéGirl, 11), two cats, one house, many projects.
Chops: My partner. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
Slightly more polished blog with a mono/poly focus: From Baltic to Boardwalk
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  #55  
Old 05-03-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by YouAreHere View Post
I don't have much to add that other folks haven't already said, but I feel you here. You know time is my big bugaboo (well, one of them, but generally the more meatier of all the bugaboos), and I still wrestle with the head versus heart thing ("Of course he needs time to do x/y/z" versus "Why is he choosing to spend MORE time away from me?!").

For my particular issue, we just need to keep addressing it (I don't ask, nor do I want Chops to not go out - I want to deal with it when he does, and see if it gets more tolerable, or if it's something we need to change, or adjust), and I guess finding the little things (e.g., Ginger not giving you all the details of his other relationships) that help make it easier, despite your head telling you that it "should" be one way or another.

Heck, PM me (we're not all THAT far apart, geographically, I don't think) if you want to just get together over coffee (or even just virtually) and vent, if you just need to blow some steam. Sometimes, just carping about the stuff you're feeling lets it get acknowledged, felt, and able to be put aside for a bit.
Thanks so much, YouAreHere! I might just take you up on that. Perhaps you live in or near Nashua... I lived in Lowell til I moved down near Rt 9 a year ago.

I've updated on my recent feelings in my blog. As I wrote that, I thought, I need to get away from feeling detached from him. I am not going to let myself start to close off from him. I tend too often, to cut people out of my life when they've hurt me. I think he's worth the effort.

So, 2 nights ago, he was free and I had him come over just to talk. No sex. He arrived at 6:30 and we talked til 1AM. miss pixi offered to mediate, and we agreed she'd let Ginger and me talk for a while, and then come in after our initial vents.

It was a marathon communication session and I still am confused on some points. But I do feel I learned a lot about his motivations and desires around dating, and Carla specifically. I also made it quite clear it was a douche move (w/o using that term) to not tell me they'd had their first date until after we'd been together twice. He admitted he should've told me the following day, not 3 days later. But he wanted at least one peaceful date with me, with no talk of her, no angst.

He said he was too mad at me the day of their date to tell me, as they made their plans kind of last minute and he didn't want to tell me and have to have a discussion around it just before her arrival. miss p pointed out that if he and I were so upset with each other, maybe he shouldn't have met her at all that day?

But, what's done is done. They walked, they talked, they kept their clothes on, they made out a while. They felt that "spark," and want to move forward.

I found out that the guy she had the hots for last year... they never even got to a first date. The other guy couldn't hack it. Maybe David was freaking out too much.

Speaking of David, the morning after our talking marathon, he messaged Ginger, saying he wanted to come see him. He assured Ginger he wasn't coming over to beat him up! I guess he wanted to make sure Ginger's intentions were honorable. According to Ginger, their hour long meet went well, and he even told David about what I'd said, that it can take years for a formerly mono couple to really get OK with being open, especially if one of the partners is mono. I always feel Carla is pushing David to hurry up and get OK with all this!

Ginger being Aspie is making this harder... he just doesn't easily empathize with others' emotions. That night of our talk, I was so upset. And sometimes he'd laugh, scoffingly, at my upset. That hurt and I told him to stop it.

One more point to this novella: I realized at some point yesterday that I feel like a disappointed newlywed. I plan to never marry again, but moving into a house with miss pixi Mayday 2013 felt like marriage in a way, a commitment. And I reminded Ginger how he continually encouraged us to move to his town, or as close as we could. We looked all over between Boston and Worcester, and anytime a house was 10 miles or more away, he'd complain-- too far! Oddly he tried to deny he'd done this until I reminded him of example after example.

So, miss pixi and I didn't move in with Ginger, but we got as close as we could. We committed to that. And as soon as we did, he was off and running, pursuing half a dozen other people... sigh... Coulda waited til the honeymoon was over, couldn't he? I feel so domestic and "nesty" right now, as miss p and I settle in, decorate, enjoy our new more countrified environment, gardening, grilling on our deck, all that. And Ginger is seeming all wild and slutty and off in his own world.

Funnily, he kept getting all insulted when I talked about his strong sex drive. miss p and I claim the word slut, but he kept being insulted when I told him he was slutty like me. I guess, as a man, he doesn't want to seem creepily overly focused on sex. But we both told him he just exudes sex. Women fall at his feet. Then he said sex is only 10% of what he is looking for in relationships, and in fact, he could have a close romantic relationship with no sex at all. I said, "Perfect! Why don't you just not have sex with Carla at all, and save me this pain?" The look on his face was priceless, like a baby who'd just had their bottle of milk yanked from their mouth. LOL. I said, "Ginger, don't try to kid a kidder. I know you're just as much of a horndog as I am. I know you!"
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37

Last edited by Magdlyn; 05-03-2014 at 12:45 PM.
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  #56  
Old 05-03-2014, 01:49 PM
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Sounds like maybe you feel a bit of a bait-and-switch with respect to the living arrangements? That Ginger's input didn't lead to a situation you feel he's as vested in as you and Miss Pixi are?

Nice "you can't kid a kidder" moment, BTW. Is he not admitting his sex drive to himself, or just to other people?

As for getting together, I'll PM you - I live about a half-hour east of Nashua, but I'm not unfamiliar with the Rt. 9 area. I've got some friends in Westborough I see every so often, and Chops and I used to meet up in Marlborough/Worcester from time to time, before the living arrangements settled out.

I'm glad you got the opportunity to talk - how does it feel now, after having time to settle and digest (or is this where your blog comes in)? I know that when I detach from Chops, it means something's wrong and I'm trying to protect myself, which I *don't* want to do. Protecting myself by distancing myself only hurts my relationship with him, and makes it harder to reconnect, but boy is it easy to do when you're hurting and you just want to take your hand off the stove for a little while.
__________________
Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids (DanceGirl, 13; and PokéGirl, 11), two cats, one house, many projects.
Chops: My partner. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
Slightly more polished blog with a mono/poly focus: From Baltic to Boardwalk
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  #57  
Old 05-03-2014, 01:58 PM
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You all aren't far from me either... I'm in Boston-ish.

Glad the communication is opening up, Magdlyn
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  #58  
Old 05-03-2014, 02:54 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Sounds like a good talk. Both of you got to express what you've wanted to say, and both of you learned a little bit more about yourselves and each other. I'd say, no mater what the outcome is with Carla, that is good stuff for a strong relationship between you two.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #59  
Old 05-03-2014, 03:39 PM
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If my partner suggested I refrain from sex with my new partner, I'd really be horrified.
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  #60  
Old 05-03-2014, 04:16 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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If my partner suggested I refrain from sex with my new partner, I'd really be horrified.
Haha, hello Miss Literal. I said it to test what he was saying about sex being so unimportant to him. Going on about how he's gone without sex for years at a time and so on. That he's not pursuing women with sex on his mind. Frankly I thought he was lying to himself, or downplaying how sexual he was to seem more "pure" or "spiritual" or "feminist" or something.

I knew damn well he desires greatly to fuck Carla. He's told me outright they are "hot" for each other. So, I wasn't buying this schtick about him not needing or wanting sex all that much, that that isn't part of his motivation to be dating so much right now. I just needed him to grow up and admit to his sluttiness, since that evidence is constantly in my face. It takes one to know one, I said. Don't kid a kidder.

I found out the times he's gone without sex were when he felt more Aspergers than he does now, he was more introverted, his wife was becoming less and less interested in sex, and his boys were starting school and needing lots of parental interventions to meet their needs (both Asperger's).

But that said, he did lose his virginity young, he always had a gf through high school, college and grad school. Women are drawn to him like moths to flame, knickers thrown to the winds.

15 years ago he became more social and started joining pagan groups, and friending women on FB, and dating. Then okc came into the picture. His growth involved "fitting in" as more NT now, learning social graces so he doesn't come off as awkward and "weird" (his word), feeling accepted and even liked by his social groups, and also, having gfs and having sex with them.

He has told me about one woman he met thru okc, and she didn't want sex, but wanted a tennis partner, and so they did that for a couple years. (He was however, dating 2 other women at the time who he got to bang... lol) Otherwise, he's had sexual relationships, some more brief and casual, some more serious, for the huge majority of his life.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37

Last edited by Magdlyn; 05-03-2014 at 04:18 PM.
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