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  #21  
Old 04-30-2014, 05:06 PM
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Marcus Marcus is offline
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Originally Posted by heartdoodler View Post
His family wants absolutely nothing to do with me. We have fallen in love despite all of those odds...
1. His family is xenophobic and he capitulates to their irrational fears.
2. You are not turned off by the fact that he allows his parents to dictate his life for him.

What you have described is really just another example demonstrating that there is some emotional growth that needs to take place before this association will even risk being a healthy relationship.

I wish you luck, I really do.
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  #22  
Old 04-30-2014, 05:18 PM
heartdoodler heartdoodler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
1. His family is xenophobic and he capitulates to their irrational fears.
2. You are not turned off by the fact that he allows his parents to dictate his life for him.

What you have described is really just another example demonstrating that there is some emotional growth that needs to take place before this association will even risk being a healthy relationship.

I wish you luck, I really do.
I appreciate that Marcus. My family would wholeheartedly agree with you. That he is allowing his family to run his life in this way. He is a grown man.

But, I also understand his viewpoint in that he loves his family and does not want to disown them because of their simple-mindedness.
We have broken up numerous times because of this exact reason, but, have a longing to be together.

Healthy or not, I will not hold him accountable for his family's racist behavior. I will also not give him another ultimatum to choose between me or his family. I feel the situation we have created, now with Jason providing the "Family" that I am looking for, while still being able to maintain my love for Michael, might just be the answer.

It might not be, and I might be totally messing up my life, along with everyone else's in the end. I have never said I have this all figured out. In fact, I know I do not. I am just trying to survive here, and be happy.

Michael is an amazingly awesome guy. If you didn't get mad at him for enabling his family's behavior, people instantly fall for his character, kindness, gentleness. I do love him. This situation enables me to also fully be happy. I don't know the rules...
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  #23  
Old 04-30-2014, 08:09 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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You've said a few times in this thread something along the lines of "I don't know the rules". What rules?

Polyamory isn't an all or nothing thing. It isn't something that has a guidebook to follow. What works for one person/couple/triad/whatever isn't going to work for all.

The rules are the ones YOU make, hopefully in conjunction with Jason and Michael, that make the situation least painful and easiest for the three of you to work within.

That said, I have to agree with Marcus that to me, your situation doesn't sound particularly healthy relationship-wise. But you're the only one who can decide whether it's a situation that's going to work for you and whether you're willing to accept two men who refuse to communicate, one of whom keeps you hidden because he's afraid of what his family will do.
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  #24  
Old 04-30-2014, 08:27 PM
heartdoodler heartdoodler is offline
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Originally Posted by KC43 View Post
You've said a few times in this thread something along the lines of "I don't know the rules". What rules?

Polyamory isn't an all or nothing thing. It isn't something that has a guidebook to follow. What works for one person/couple/triad/whatever isn't going to work for all.

The rules are the ones YOU make, hopefully in conjunction with Jason and Michael, that make the situation least painful and easiest for the three of you to work within.

That said, I have to agree with Marcus that to me, your situation doesn't sound particularly healthy relationship-wise. But you're the only one who can decide whether it's a situation that's going to work for you and whether you're willing to accept two men who refuse to communicate, one of whom keeps you hidden because he's afraid of what his family will do.

Guess, when I talk about the "Rule" I am simply trying to understand other's experiences and the ways of making my relationships "healthy."

I do find the irony in my relationship with Michael being seen as unhealthy though. Not sure what makes it unhealthy, and what would make any other relationship, with all of the emotions of relationships, healthy. There are people, with different personalities. There are people, some like to talk, some do not. Some open up, some do not. My parents have a healthy relationship, and my dad barely talks. So, not sure what puts the Unhealthy label on a relationship with Michael and me... other than the fact that I am now dating someone else! But, this board here is about the only place that wouldn't describe THAT as unhealthy. I don't know. Just venting I guess.

That Michael has a family who doesn't accept me... Guess I am used to that. We have been going at this for a few years now, and that is not changing. Does that make his and my relationship unhealthy... because he is living through the torment of not being able to really be with me because of it... well, I'm sure other people have other problems as well. This is one that is what it is. Not a battle I am willing or find necessary to fight any longer.
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  #25  
Old 04-30-2014, 09:15 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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The reason I say it appears unhealthy is because it sounds like all three of you are being put into positions you aren't comfortable or happy with, and rather than compromising are just giving into each other. And there's a difference between not talking much and flat-out refusing to communicate, and it sounds to me like your guys are refusing to communicate. Even if your dad doesn't like to talk, that doesn't mean he and your mom don't *communicate* about issues that affect their relationship. To me, a *healthy* relationship is one that includes compromise, negotiation, and communication, and in which both/all participants are generally happy and comfortable. But that's only the perspective of someone who's read your posts, and not someone who's actually living in the situation, so I may be wrong.
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  #26  
Old 04-30-2014, 09:54 PM
heartdoodler heartdoodler is offline
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"Happiness" at this point is a compromise. I have found over the last few years, that life is about compromise.

Michael and Jason are both talking and communicating with me. Jason more about this poly situation and what he is comfortable with, what he is uncomfortable with, etc. He has been very, very healthy in our conversations about how this would all work.

For Michael, it is what it is. We have talked briefly about the situation. He knows I am with Jason, and accepts that. He just doesn't want to hear about it. Will he ever get to the point of "healthy" if that means he has to talk about and communicate about what it means that I am in a relationship with another. I don't think so. So, that one may never be healthy if that is required.

But, are we happy together when we are together? Do we do things together, laugh, joke and have an amazing love life? yes. To me, that is healthy. Maybe it will blow up if Michael is just in denial. Maybe. I just see no need to throw this in his face that I am making love to another, and living with another. I don't see a need to hurt him like that. He already knows that is the case and has still accepted me as-is in his life, in the life where he is comfortable... we will see if it lasts.

Again, that is why I was wondering the rules. You say there are no rules, but then it appears that all people have to openly talk about and agree to terms, etc... that seems like a rule to me.

I reached out to this board simply because I was about to check myself into a mental hospital! I was driving myself crazy in thinking how did I end up in this situation. Maybe, I just wanted to hear it will be ok. That this is common, even though it is not common in my life or the people I am with. Maybe I just wanted reassurance I am not crazy and some pointers on how to get through this. Maybe, I wanted to be told that I am crazy and expecting too much... and should just abandon all of these crazy thoughts now and I do have to choose! I don't know...
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  #27  
Old 04-30-2014, 11:08 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Ah... I was under the impression that both men had said they weren't willing to talk with you about the situation. I'm glad to hear I misinterpreted what you were saying.

I'll agree to disagree with you about happiness being a compromise. I don't believe anyone's happiness should ever be something they have to give up or put aside as long as they aren't hurting others to gain it, but I realize not everyone feels that way.

People don't *have to* do anything in a poly situation, but sorting out *your* rules, comfort zone, etc. goes a whole lot easier if you're able to talk about it with the other people involved. Communication isn't a rule so much as a component of making a relationship work, and that applies whether it's a mono or poly relationship, in my opinion.

Short answer: You aren't crazy. Poly is more common than some people realize. But whether your *particular* situation can work is something only you and the other people involved can determine.
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Me: 44, cis-het female, poly
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Guy: male, 43, former LDR boyfriend, maybe friend
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  #28  
Old 05-01-2014, 05:53 AM
london london is offline
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So Michael is giving up having a live in partner and kids whilst you enjoy two loving relationships? You'd allow someone you supposedly love to do that?

Seriously, either he won't stick around and will find himself a proper relationship or he'll get old and resent you for all eternity.
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  #29  
Old 05-02-2014, 01:37 PM
LoveBunny LoveBunny is offline
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Sounds like you're hoping to keep both these men as "primary" or life-partners, and have them both stay monogamous to you. From what I read of your posts so far, this seems unrealistic. Michael won't have you as a primary, first of all, because of your ethnicity. Secondly, both men are resistant to the idea of sharing, and I imagine two people sharing one life-partner would need to develop some level of cooperation and goodwill, and these guys aren't anywhere near there yet. I don't speak from experience here, though. Others on this forum with two primaries can advise you better.

I know you say you can't handle either man having other partners, but realistically, how long do you think they'll be ok with that? I think you if you want to keep these guys in your life long-term, you're going to have to compromise. You're going to have to deal with your feelings of jealousy, fear, and discomfort with nonconformity, just like you're asking the men to deal with theirs.

I wonder if focusing on Jason as your primary partner, and Michael as a secondary would work. Michael could then try to find a poly-friendly life-partner of his own ethnicity. This would satisfy his needs, and keep him in your life and occasionally in your bed. You might have to give up some of the time/energy he spends with you, but it's better than nothing.

What Michael seems to want is a DADT (Don't Ask, Don't Tell) arrangement. This is a controversial practice in the polyamorous community, and seems to be something couples do when newly opened, if one or both member are still insecure. I can speak from experience, here, as I am in a DADT agreement with my husband (I, on the other hand, want to know if he's with someone else.) Hubby knows that sometimes when I'm not with him, I'm with another lover, but he doesn't want to hear about it, doesn't want to meet them, wants me to keep it utterly separate from our life together. I've been doing this for a year and a half, and my experience so far is that it takes a little compartmentalizing and good time-management skills, but that it works fine for casual relationships. But I can see how if someone comes along that I want to integrate deeply in to my life, I will be unable to keep worlds from colliding and will have to repeal DADT. DADT lets someone get used to the idea on his own terms and in his own time without having to constantly deal with new information. I "check in" with hubby every few weeks to see if he's ready for more openness, and to remind him that I want to work towards that.

You don't have to go straight from monogamy to relationship anarchy. It's ok for you guys to set whatever rules keep everyone comfortable, but keep in mind rules/needs may change over time. For this to work without you all losing your minds, you'll have to rethink some of your monogamous programming. Keep us updated, I'm following your story with interest.
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Last edited by LoveBunny; 05-02-2014 at 01:51 PM.
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