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  #41  
Old 04-30-2014, 01:15 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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I saw Ginger twice this week so far. Sunday and yesterday (Tuesday).

On the Saturday he and I had a hard talk online about this Carla stuff. Midday he turned off his chat. Meanwhile, miss pixi went off for her overnight with her Master, and I was alone on a Saturday night (cue sad love song). Took care of myself, was slightly depressed, but not terrible. Enjoyed the peace.

miss p returned Sunday while Ginger was here visiting me. We had a nice few hours together, he left. Monday miss p and I had errands to run, and also went shopping and out to lunch, a nice girls' day out. My back felt so much better despite all the hours in the car. It was encouraging.

Workers were busy putting a new roof on our house that day and yesterday morning. We had two areas of flood this winter, from above, leaking roof, from below, roots in an outlet pipe causing a flood and necessitating a full renovation of the finished basement. So, now basement is dry and new roof will keep melting ice out of our living room upstairs next winter. This adds to my much needed sense of security.

Tuesday, yesterday, miss p had to go out in the evening for a late dental appt in Boston. Ginger came over with some plants from his garden for me (he took some of my plants for his garden the other day). We had our usual brief chat, followed by lengthy satisfying sex (maybe too lengthy for my back, but the rest of me enjoyed it).

As we lay in afterglow, he said, "Maybe it's time to talk about Carla." And told me he'd had a one on one date with her on the previous Saturday. 3 days earlier she'd come to his cabin. And since this was their first one on one date since their feelings grew, he was happy to see the spark and connection is really there.

So, that night when he had his chat turned off, he was with Carla, while miss p was with Master, and I was alone with my book. He said, Carla's h, David, had put restrictions on what they could do... I don't know what they did or didn't do. I didn't dare ask. And since I didn't ask for more details, not feeling "allowed" to, or that I "should," I felt shut out. I felt a wall of disconnect and lessening of intimacy coming down between us. I also knew the option of knowing more, of maybe knowing ahead of time about their date, or knowing details of the date itself, would not probably have made me feel any better either.

I laid there quietly while he tried to parse my emotions. I blew it off, we got up and tended to the dog, then lit a fire, sat on the couch, played old Simon and Garfunkle vinyl albums, sang along some, diddled each other again some. On the surface, a romantic date. In my head and heart, emotions tussled and clawed at each other.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #42  
Old 04-30-2014, 01:31 PM
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I needed to go get miss pixi from her train. Ginger left then too. I felt depressed, closed down, jaded and again, that slight disgust and bitterness that draws down the corners of my mouth.

I went to bed rather early after having a late dinner and chat with miss p about Ginger's revelation.

This morning, he said hi on chat and I told him about my emotions. He is sorry for my suffering, lack of trust, feelings of lesser intimacy. In the course of the conversation he said:

"There have been a very few times in my life when I have gotten to know someone and they just seemed to click with me in a special way. R (his wife) was the first. You were the second.

It is very early and all kinds of things may happen but you may be sensing that I think Carla might be the third.

My my, did I actually say that?"

Me: "apparently"

him: "I'm not sure it was quite that clear in my mind until just now. Or it may just be NRE ..."

So, there we go. He tried some more to reassure me of his love for me, his pain at seeing my suffering, acknowledgment of how the slow pace necessitated by Carla's h is possibly increasing his ardor for her, etc etc.

I do not fear losing him over her. I feel oddly competitive, since she is so much like a 15 years younger version of myself, a stay at home mom of 3, a pagan, a dancer, creative and smart. Of course, I said, she is not my clone. She has qualities that make us different.

miss p gets such different things from her 2 current OSOs, than I can offer. Ginger however, seems to get much of the same things I offer, from his new "love." sigh...

I feel so insecure and whiny and that makes me feel ugly and undesirable.

I seem to have large issues with trusting men!

Ginger wonders how we can get my heart to feel better around this, to get in line with the simple poly principles my head understands and endorses.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37

Last edited by Magdlyn; 04-30-2014 at 01:48 PM.
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  #43  
Old 04-30-2014, 01:40 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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I don't have advice to offer, but I wanted to let you know you aren't alone in having your heart not quite match your head when it comes to polyamory. I hope you are able to work through the situation. It sounds like you and Ginger are having some good communication about this.

(And I get insecure and whiny sometimes too.)
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  #44  
Old 04-30-2014, 02:16 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
Ginger wonders how we can get my heart to feel better around this, to get in line with the simple poly principles my head understands and endorses.
Here's one behavior I spot that could change to see if it helps or not.

Quote:

We had our usual brief chat, followed by lengthy satisfying sex (maybe too lengthy for my back, but the rest of me enjoyed it).

As we lay in afterglow, he said, "Maybe it's time to talk about Carla."

That sounded awkward and like it led to some distancing later.

I know for me, the LAST thing I want to be doing in post-sex cozy is relationship management talk about OTHER relationships. I rather be doing that when I'm emotionally prepared to go there, not when I'm wide open and and vulnerable.

Sex can feel cozy and make people want to share stuff. But that has to be tempered by does the other person want to RECEIVE that data at that time/place?

Hang in there!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 04-30-2014 at 02:25 PM.
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  #45  
Old 04-30-2014, 02:19 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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We have a lot of sex, so we are more often in post-sex coziness than not. I wish it was that simple.

He said he wanted to tell me in person... We can have more success discussing things intellectually online though. When we aren't all endorphiney.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #46  
Old 04-30-2014, 02:27 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
He said he wanted to tell me in person... We can have more success discussing things intellectually online though. When we aren't all endorphiney.
There you go. Sounds like you know it already.

He may want to tell in person. But if that isn't effective, have to deal with what your dyad needs to have happen (talks) and set aside wants. Could focus on desired outcome and be flexible about method.

Be nice if BOTH the wants/needs could line up, but if they aren't? Could accept the reality right now and get on with the show. Maybe in future you both can get to a place where talking in person about this becomes effective.

But at this time? Go with what works better at this time so the thing gets done. Rather than taking an ineffective path and adding more layers of UGH to it.

Take away from the problems, not ADD to the problems.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 04-30-2014 at 02:34 PM.
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  #47  
Old 04-30-2014, 03:11 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Yeah, all right GG, maybe telling me during afterglow wasn't ideal. He and I talked online more this morning, and I felt able to tell him about my disconnected feelings towards him last night, in an ironically romantic atmosphere of fire, music and cuddling.

My ex husband's gf was petite and dark haired like Carla, also a granola girl and a massage therapist. I know I am totally triggered back to that dark time, when I nearly died from submitting, from feeling nullified by his love for her, becoming so depressed I needed therapy and Zoloft.

This is now 15 years past that time. I recovered, I made changes, I got divorced, I got my own apartment for the first time in my life, I fell in love with miss pixi, I dated many others, I had fun, I grew, I became reborn.

I moved in with miss p, to a house nearer to Ginger. Then, Ginger started power dating and now has this click with Carla, this click of "this is the real thing."

Despite all my growth and learning and strength, I am worn down by a bad back, floods, and disappointment at this need of Ginger's for a 4th partner. And now he's all in NRE, and I am thrown back to the dark place of 15 years ago. Not quite to that depth of despair! He's much more communicative than my ex, and I've got the support of miss p, and the people here. I am not breaking up a home, impacting my children's lives, this time. I just don't know what I need, from Ginger, or from myself, or how much of it I need, to feel safe and valued again.

5 love languages:

He brought me plants from his garden. GIFTS
He tells me he loves me more now. WORDS OF AFFIRMATION
He helps me in my garden and around the house. SERVICE
He sexes me up and cuddles me too. TOUCH
He focuses on me when he's with me. QUALITY TIME

What more could I need? Time? Is that all it will take? Just getting used to this?

But then again, time will probably lead to Ginger and Carla becoming closer and closer! I fear that as well. I don't WANT to have to hear about their growing love. Shit. I don't care! It doesn't bring me joy. I don't feel compersion. It just makes me sick.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37

Last edited by Magdlyn; 04-30-2014 at 03:15 PM.
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  #48  
Old 04-30-2014, 04:24 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
What more could I need? Time? Is that all it will take? Just getting used to this?
Get used to which behavior?
  • Used to him dating Carla in general?
  • Or him not respecting your limit that you don't want to hear about Carla? At all? Not just post sex but AT ALL? And he keeps on talking?

I know this is hard and it isn't funny like "haha" funny.

But I find it funny he says this

Quote:
Ginger wonders how we can get my heart to feel better around this, to get in line with the simple poly principles my head understands and endorses.
and makes it a "we" thing when the simplest path to me is what "he" can do in his own behavior: Stop talking to Mag about Carla.

But ok... "we project" then.

He does X, you do Y.

Lather rinse repeat.

Quote:
I just don't know what I need, from Ginger, or from myself, or how much of it I need, to feel safe and valued again.
  • Maybe having your limits and boundaries respected by Ginger?
  • And when he crosses the line you could do the "lather, rinse, repeat" behavior?
"This is talking about Carla. We do not talk about Carla. Please respect my limit. You can talk about Carla with your pal ____."
Anything Carla-ish, that's your response. Lather, rinse, repeat.

While it can be boring and annoying, it's simple to execute. Play the broken record. That's less energy than trying to talk on and on. You are tired right now and don't have plenty energy to spend. Sometimes there is no compromise thing -- it's just limit reached.

To me it sounds like it is going to boil down to keeping and enforcing healthy boundaries with an Asperger person. Even if it takes longer for a "bee in the bonnet" to shoo longer than it would in a non-Asperger person. Part of the price of admission to date Ginger. He's Asperger and will have some of that play in to your interactions.

Hang in there.
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 04-30-2014 at 04:41 PM.
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  #49  
Old 04-30-2014, 04:52 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Get used to which behavior?
  • Used to him dating Carla in general?
  • Or him not respecting your limit that you don't want to hear about Carla? At all? Not just post sex but AT ALL? And he keeps on talking?
Getting used to him dating Carla, or anyone else. Not the talking about it. I'd rather the dating itself wasn't happening. But that is the price of admission for dating an active poly guy, who wants a seemingly unlimited amount of partners.

Quote:
... the simplest path to me is what "he" can do in his own behavior: Stop talking to Mag about Carla.
No, I appreciate you trying to wade through this swamp of emotions and behaviors with me, but it's not the amount of talking about. Talk too much, I get disgusted. Tell me too little and expect me to ask for no more detail (like last night), I feel disconnected!

Well, one good thing. All last week I was complaining I didn't feel "special" enough in the midst of all these other women. He had said he didn't "do special." (Although he finally admitted I was "important" to him.)But this morning in chat he did say:

Quote:
There have been a very few times in my life when I have gotten to know someone and they just seemed to click with me in a special way. R was the first. You were the second. [Carla may be the third.]
Ha! He said special.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #50  
Old 04-30-2014, 05:19 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Hrm... sounds like a learning curve then. And that does take time. Figuring out how much is is too much info and how much is too little info. And learning to ask for the behaviors you want.

He doesn't "do" special on his own, but you seem to have derived comfort from him telling you that you are special and important to him. Could you ask him to do more of that?

Galagirl
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