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  #21  
Old 04-09-2014, 01:31 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Marriage is inherently hierarchal, there is no way to prevent this, just value what time you have left until the point she leaves to find someone else.
Marriage is what you make of it. For some people, it's nothing but an excuse to stay in the country. For some, it's tax benefits and health insurance. For others, it's the be-all-end-all of human relationships.

Hierarchy, meaning ranking one person above another in terms of status or authority, is not inherent in marriage. It may be a feature of many people's marriages, but it's not a universal.

I love this one t-shirt that Zoffee bought for Auto one Yule...

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  #22  
Old 04-09-2014, 01:47 AM
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  #23  
Old 04-09-2014, 03:28 AM
FarAwayLover FarAwayLover is offline
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Question Insurance while in school?

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Originally Posted by stevie View Post
Of course, the reason he will need health insurance is he is wanting to enter a demanding school program that will not allow him to work enough hours to qualify for work health insurance anymore, or even really enough to pay all his bills, but will virtually guarantee a job that pays enough to end this problem forever in a field that he is passionate about. If I can help support him, to some degree financially and with health insurance, for 2 years, then maybe we can break out of this cycle. If you had the opportunity to do that for your partner, wouldn't you want to?
Sure, phrased like that. The question is how Pink fits into this, since that description didn't mention _another_ partner at all. I'll play devil's advocate and ask - if you were already married to Pink, and this opportunity to help Blue with insurance came up, would you be willing to divorce Pink in order to be able to marry Blue and provide him with insurance?

There's one thing I'm curious about. More years ago than I care to think about, when I was in graduate school, the school provided insurance. Has Blue looked into what the demanding school program would provide in the way of insurance?

BTW, I'm not trying to argue you out of anything.

FAL

--------------------------------

M - Me - female, 59 - _trying_ to figure out if I'm poly
Clyde (previously B) - 56 - my husband for over 34 years
Jacques (previously JP) - 58 - my high school boyfriend, newly appeared in the picture after 38 years; very long distance; haven't actually seen him
Artemis (previously A) - 65? - Jacques's wife of over 30 years, who's not cool with things
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  #24  
Old 04-09-2014, 04:36 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by FarAwayLover View Post
The question is how Pink fits into this, since that description didn't mention _another_ partner at all.
She doesn't, because "this" is "the potential marriage between stevie and Blue" and that, at its core, is an issue that is only between stevie and Blue.

All this stuff about how it "affects" her and "where it leaves her" etc. is putting the cart before the horse. Fact is, Blue and stevie getting married only affects Pink if Pink and/or stevie let it. e.g. if stevie changes the way she behaves towards Pink, or if Pink changes the way she behaves towards stevie. And in that case, the effect is secondary, in response to the change in behaviour, not primary, in response to the marriage itself.

At the end of the day, what matters is needs and feelings. Pink's needs being met are not affected by whether or not her girlfriend is married. They are affected by whether or not stevie starts treating Pink differently, not by whether or not she starts treating Blue differently.

People have a general need for equality, but that doesn't mean being treated the same. It means not being treated as inferior. There's nothing inherent about two people being married that causes a third person to be treated as inferior. Auto and I, Zoffee and Cue, we don't treat each other as inferior simply because we happen to be married to someone else. We respect each other's differences and needs and feelings, as being unique and individual. We allow each relationship to grow and evolve on its own merit.

If it was ever a possibility that Pink was going to marry stevie, then we might have something to talk about, because marrying Blue would kill that possibility. But from what we've learned, that's not on the table at any point in the future regardless, so it's hypothetical blockade is irrelevant.

Sure, marriage is kind of a big deal. But if Pink and stevie's relationship is so tenuous that this marriage could make them treat each other differently enough that their relationship falls apart, then there were deeper issues to begin with.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 04-09-2014 at 04:39 AM.
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  #25  
Old 04-09-2014, 07:48 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
Marriage is what you make of it. For some people, it's nothing but an excuse to stay in the country. For some, it's tax benefits and health insurance. For others, it's the be-all-end-all of human relationships.

Hierarchy, meaning ranking one person above another in terms of status or authority, is not inherent in marriage. It may be a feature of many people's marriages, but it's not a universal.
And that would be fine, if you controlled how other people saw your marriage and marriage in general, but you don't. Marriage comes with a whole heap of societal baggage that you partake of, even if you don't want it for yourself and your marriage. You can't control how other people think and unless you want to go around not proclaiming your legally married status, or claiming multiple married status (polygamous) there will always be people who feel that one person is the "real" partner and the others are the interlopers.

We internalise it also and that is why it can lead to resentment.
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  #26  
Old 04-09-2014, 01:20 PM
CattivaGattina CattivaGattina is offline
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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
And that would be fine, if you controlled how other people saw your marriage and marriage in general, but you don't. Marriage comes with a whole heap of societal baggage that you partake of, even if you don't want it for yourself and your marriage. You can't control how other people think and unless you want to go around not proclaiming your legally married status, or claiming multiple married status (polygamous) there will always be people who feel that one person is the "real" partner and the others are the interlopers.

We internalise it also and that is why it can lead to resentment.
It doesn't matter what other people who aren't in my relationships think of them. I know that my relationship with Tighearn (despite both of us being married) is going to be long term, highly committed, and other than a piece of legal paper work out to being a marriage. I know that ancilla's (his wife) relationship with her boyfriend has worked out the same way and will stay that way whenever he gets married.

And I know that my husband (and all the spouses in this group) feel the same way about how good that is.

So it doesn't matter what society thinks, our friends know how our relationship is and really I don't need to worry about others (hell when a work thing that only allows a plus one happens and I'm ever actually able to make it, I'm going to go alone).
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  #27  
Old 04-09-2014, 02:29 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Originally Posted by stevie View Post
. . . the reason he will need health insurance is he is wanting to enter a demanding school program that will not allow him to work enough hours to qualify for work health insurance anymore . . .
Does his university offer health insurance? I know mine did, but maybe because it is a city college. I think many colleges and universities make insurance available to their students. Has he looked into that?
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An excellent blog post against hierarchy in polyamory: http://solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-i...short-version/
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  #28  
Old 04-09-2014, 02:41 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by CattivaGattina View Post
It doesn't matter what other people who aren't in my relationships think of them.
Your missing the point, which is, just because it doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it doesn't matter.
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  #29  
Old 04-09-2014, 09:05 PM
AlwaysGrowing AlwaysGrowing is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Does his university offer health insurance? I know mine did, but maybe because it is a city college. I think many colleges and universities make insurance available to their students. Has he looked into that?
Mine and my husband's did as well - mine was a public/state school and his was a fancy shmancy private school.

Definitely something to look into... Both offered affordable coverage (neither of us needed it at the time, but I've always liked knowing my options just in case) that was fairly comprehensive.

FWIW, I really don't see the big deal about you and Blue getting married. If you and Pink decide you do want to be married in the future, or if she is the one that needs insurance after Blue gets more established, or if something else unforeseeable happens that changes things, you can always get a divorce and marry Pink. Or get a divorce and have a commitment ceremony with each and all remain legally unmarried but be spiritually married.

If you want to include Pink or help assuage her concerns, maybe make more formal plans that show how the marriage is going to affect xyz (mostly financial, probably) but not abc (time, emotion, etc). You said Pink and you are not in a place to "get married" (or have a commitment ceremony type thing) but what about doing something that's the equivalent of a promise ring? Whether it be an actual, physical thing that you give her or a romantic night/weekend for just the two of you to give her some focused, extra special time to feel cared for and important?

A side question... You mention that Pink goes to more academic -related things (potentially work as well) while Blue goes to the family things because he's known them longer. Pink's family is very important to her. How does she feel about being excluded from YOUR family, then?
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  #30  
Old 04-10-2014, 02:41 AM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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Missed this one. Thank you for sharing your story. I think I will share it with Pink and hopefully it will be helpful.
I hope so too.

I guess my other question is given that Blue and Pink are friends, and I assume she cares for him to some degree, what does she suggest he do? Take his chances?
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