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  #61  
Old 03-12-2014, 02:16 AM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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Default Did this just happen?

Willa did her Willa thing and burst in on Amy tonight, saying "I'm ANGRY at you for how you're treating us!" They went downhill/uphill from there. Downhill in the sense of saying hard things, uphill for having said them and had them honored and listened to.

In sum, it's what it's been for weeks. Amy really has to leave. She can't take being around married couples, not during her divorce, not right now. She can't stand being reminded of what she doesn't have.

But then she gave Willa something, and said she had something for me, too. Keys to her house.

She's going away now. Would we please be there, when she gets back? Would we stay open to her return? We asked her to be strong and independent and meet us on a solid foundation, and now she's working on that, because she knows it's the right thing. Would we please keep her in our hearts until then, and maybe it will work out again in the future?

I was speechless, then I burst into tears, and then I nearly passed out because I forgot to breathe. Willa was there holding me upright, not surprised at my reaction. Why? She literally fell over when Amy handed her the keys, landing on the ground, just plopping down on her butt.

This is so totally unexpected.

(maybe I'll go do her dishes regularly, because I like doing her dishes...)
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  #62  
Old 03-13-2014, 06:34 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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Default thawing and moving closer?

Last night, I spent time with Amy and now, Willa is over at Amy's place. It's not the relationship of old, but something happened in the past few days that makes me wonder if we're coming up with something healing between us all. It's not just Amy giving Willa keys. It's also the conversation last night.

We spent hours together, dinner and then hanging out and talking about our work lives. Shared stories, laughed our heads off, opened up about all sorts of hard things. We talked about what Willa is seeking, and perhaps there was a sense that it's available to us. It's really possible, after all the pain of the past 2 months, to find back to the place where what we mean to each other can be expressed without really holding back.

It's the constraint of holding back that seems to be underlying a lot of problems. Hiding our affection and emotion. The few times the non-married couples have been more open in public - holding hands together, arms around each other - have been mostly safe, and we're pretty sure that a lot of people in our circle of friends know what is going on. But to be ACTUALLY open? Yeah, that's not possible for us. I wish it were. I'm the more open one, but they are hesitant about the kids, about their friends, and more. They have both said they'd be ready to have ME have a girlfriend, but EACH OTHER?! Well... in the past, no way. Now? Both are more okay with it. Same-sex relationships have taken time to get used to.

Speaking of, Willa HAS been at Amy's for a while. I sure hope they're having fun, cough cough. Laughing.

Who knows what happens next. Amy and I had a GREAT time last night, trusting, open, emotional yet safe. And I spent the night for the first time in a while. Maybe we bridged to a better place. Maybe we're on the way to improving something? I don't know.
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  #63  
Old 03-14-2014, 12:51 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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You're a determined mofo, I'll give you that.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

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miss pixi, 37
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  #64  
Old 03-15-2014, 09:54 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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Laughing. I guess there are reasons for me to be determined. Much of the upheaval in our life is not about our life - it's about Amy and her history and what it means to be in a relationship, what she's confronted with, and where that takes her. Being determined, in this case, means being there, even when she tells us to go away. And then being there still, when she comes back from her internal travels...
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  #65  
Old 03-18-2014, 11:54 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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Default Coming out in pieces

Willa and I have been struggling with Amy's distance from us - as well as her incredible nearness at times, the desire she has for nearness, followed by an incredible distance and pushing away again. It's such a goddamn roller coaster. Knowing the person, loving the person, understanding the person and why she does it, and standing near enough to be there but not so near as to be punched in the next round of lashing out at the world... it's fucking rough.

So we have finally talked to some friends. For those of you who are "out," my god, what a luxury that must be. To be witnessed, understood, and have gone through the weeding out of who will and who won't be your friends after this is revealed.

It began when Willa started telling a friend. Wow, that was powerful. A short conversation, but it was safe, and there was no turning away. For Willa, it was fear - she felt a deep need to reassure the friend (a woman) that she was only attracted to Amy, not all women, that ... well, she's still struggling with loving a man and a woman. Her friend's response was totally cool. Just totally fucking cool.

Soon after, I had a chance to talk to that friend's husband. Turns out he'd thought I was having an affair with Amy (his wife told Willa). Good eyes, buddy, good eyes. It's not an affair, it's a relationship. I talked to him, and we did something really deep and wonderful - a trust exchange of marital internals and personal secrets... holy shit, that man is amazing. I felt so safe walking out of that conversation. (Later, I saw her, hugged her, said "thank you," and she said "ohcomeonwhatareyoutalkingabout - we love you!" followed by a seriously intense hug...

I wish we'd had this relationship witnessed when it was happening. Both our friends commented about that - why now?! Well, yeah, good question, you know? It's late, now, and probably too late. But to have it witnessed is a big deal.

Amy and I are talking about how and when I can spend the night. When her kids are there - no. They come into her room at night, regularly, and she doesn't want me there until she can tell them "he'll be there, and he'll ALWAYS be there." God, I want that. But we're not there, right now, and it's rough going, and impossible to know if we'll ever make it there. God, I hope.
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Willa: my wife
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Ella: a many-years long-distance relationship of mine, that I don't blog about
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  #66  
Old 03-18-2014, 11:55 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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Default Blogging better

I just read some of the early blog posts here on this thread, and it's painful to read the hope and synergy of the beginning. I didn't blog while things were going badly. Now I wish I had. That way, I could go back in time and find when the tone changed, when things shifted. I think I know what it was and when it was. But I sure do wish I had a better record of where we were...
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Willa: my wife
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Ella: a many-years long-distance relationship of mine, that I don't blog about
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  #67  
Old 03-19-2014, 03:33 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Honestly, I think your biggest problem is that you keep wishing that what you have should be different than what it is. The best thing you can do, in my opinion, is appreciate the relationships you have for what they are, instead of hoping they will turn into something you think they should be. Live your life in the here and now.
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  #68  
Old 03-20-2014, 01:55 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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Default Closing down the blog

Well, this blog has played out its story. Time to close down. If I write more, it'll be on a different topic.

Amy has gone through another cycle of leaving for good, this time for good. Ha ha.

The joy of spending time with someone as insightful and observant as her is that you feel seen and known and find passion with someone who has gone to their innermost spaces and explored them thoroughly. The sadness of it is that the person has learned these skills because of the shit they dealt with as a kid and in a shitty marriage - there is wariness, lack of trust, and need for safety.

In the end, Amy didn't want the compromises connected to my marriage. A huge deal is that she wouldn't actually enter my house - hasn't showed up for months, and the whole relationship played out at her house, as a result. It was an imbalance that never allowed us to establish ourselves in a normal life. The only way to succeed in our relationship was to do what she'd done - leave my spouse. She wanted me to live with her, but didn't want to take me away from my family in the process.

There are a lot of details not worth rehashing - in the end, we weren't able to find common ground, and she left. I wanted her to be co-primary, she wanted me to be primary, and we couldn't find a way to do it.

Thanks everyone for reading.
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Willa: my wife
Amy: someone Willa and I have both been involved with
Ella: a many-years long-distance relationship of mine, that I don't blog about
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  #69  
Old 03-23-2014, 01:56 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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Default Some processing time

Willa and I have been spending lots of time processing what has happened with Amy. Since October, Amy's been saying the same things - dating a couple, wanting more time with us, being more primary, and more. We had, at the time, agreed to move at the pace of the slowest person in the group, which was pretty consistently Willa.

Now, Willa is feeling guilty about her decisions and hesitation. But what can you do? She wasn't ready, and she DID transition, very far from where she'd begun. That wasn't fast enough for Amy, though. Things weren't right early on, and after that, no change was going to be enough for her to change HER mind.

I feel bad that I couldn't be closer to Amy as we each patiently waited for Willa to change (Willa herself was waiting to change, working on things, but that takes time). Amy saw me on the other end of the divide - ironic, because she was as protective of Willa as I was. There were plenty of times when I tried to talk about couple privilege and avoiding it - and Amy pushed back and was a bigger proponent of it than I was. That was actually hard on me, because dammit, I didn't want the couple privilege! I was pushing for something more open, and patient enough to wait for Willa. Amy ended up impatient, and blamed me for sticking with Willa, regardless of how much she herself did, too. Only at the end did Amy blame Willa, too. Then again, people say a lot of raw crap when they're hurt.



For various minor reasons, I see Amy regularly, while Willa does not. But, Willa and Amy are probably going to be able to find back to a friendship that Amy and I will not - at least for a long while. Then again, because we see each other regularly for other reasons (and have to interact) it means we can't sink into total unawareness of each other. I suspect that we'll all find back to some way to connect to each other at least in talking in a civil way. Might take a few months. Amy sure wasn't civil, which was basically the last straw. Sigh.

I said I'd stop the blog. I'm still reading the boards (busy at work, not much time, though). Just don't know what to write, or post, anymore. This is me processing, kind of for archival purposes, not more.
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Ella: a many-years long-distance relationship of mine, that I don't blog about
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  #70  
Old 03-29-2014, 11:03 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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As part of another thread I started, asking for advice when Amy tried to re-engage after the newest round of breaking up, I wrote this:

======================

I let this week play out, and it's once again over (but this time for real? laughing at that statement, though I actually believe it now).

In the end, someone dealing with divorce and depression and her remarkably ugly past (i.e., the source of the PTSD) is not someone I can deal with in a trusting, honest way. Each conversation revises the past one. Her revisions of the past are monumental - I had to check in with Willa (and Willa with me) on the question of "did this happen? what is she talking about?" We found, too often, that what we were being accused of was exactly what we'd been offering to her (we offered help she turned down, now she says we didn't help her, that kind of thing).

We have (painfully) severed ties. There were a few more conversations, and it became clear that her accusations of our evildoing were protective defensiveness - and now I'm done.

It's shockingly painful. But the person I thought was there was still hiding layers upon layers of contradictory emotion. Poly and nonmonogamy flow through her blood, but not in the way I can engage with, right now.

The only solution is to stop engaging her. And, as important, to stop letting her engage us. Ow, and yay.
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Willa: my wife
Amy: someone Willa and I have both been involved with
Ella: a many-years long-distance relationship of mine, that I don't blog about
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