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  #11  
Old 03-21-2014, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by vanquish View Post
As long as no one is being hurt by this and everyone is being honest with each other, I don't think anyone should impose everyone getting along as a requirement. Would it make things easier? Yes. Could it make a more fruitful family environment? Of course. But is it required? Nope. Not as I see it.
Yeah, a "family environment" would feel like a prison sentence to me.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #12  
Old 03-22-2014, 01:25 PM
vanquish vanquish is offline
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Exactly. I think a lot of people bring their mono/nuclear family/breeder ideas over to the poly world and want to impose them. That's fine if that's what you and yours want for your relationship, but not everyone wants to just keep expanding their family group. Some people want to keep metamours separate and enjoy different relationships with different people.

Obviously the Hinge has to live up to promises made to both/all sides, but when one meta begins dictating the relationship of the other, there's a problem.
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  #13  
Old 03-22-2014, 05:52 PM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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Vanquish - I find the term breeder offensive as a whole and always have as it implies that anyone who believes in procreation is intent on overpopulating the world. I am married, have exactly 1 child and would never bring another child into this world because I just can't support another, financially, emotionally, etc. I have been poly my entire life, but I have to admit that I just don't get the idea of not wanting to live in a family at all. I'm not talking nuclear family, but a family of friends and blood relations, lovers; a family of kindred spirits. Human beings are pack animals by nature, that is why we form bonds and why babies fail to thrive when deprived of that bond. Sure, not all of those connections need to get along with each other (siblings rarely get along all the time), but it is helpful when their personalities do not clash to the point of causing me undo stress or make me feel the need to be false with myself and others to please someone.

I have not read any of the author's previous work and I don't necessarily agree with his conclusions, but I thought it was some interesting food for though, even if he himself admitted in his comments that he got carried away with the metaphor.
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  #14  
Old 03-22-2014, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Yeah, a "family environment" would feel like a prison sentence to me.
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Originally Posted by vanquish View Post
Exactly. I think a lot of people bring their mono/nuclear family/breeder ideas over to the poly world and want to impose them. That's fine if that's what you and yours want for your relationship, but not everyone wants to just keep expanding their family group. Some people want to keep metamours separate and enjoy different relationships with different people.
I wasn't thinking only of a nuclear family with children when I said "family environment." Yes, I am child-free by choice, and have been all my life, but I don't call every person who has children "breeders" because that's just rude and obnoxious, even though many people have children for all the wrong reasons IMHO.

Lots of people want a poly tribe/family, but that doesn't necessarily mean parents, co-parents, and a passel of children. I am a solo and enjoy living alone. Being an introvert, I cherish my privacy and ability to come and go whenever and wherever I want, without checking in with other people or having my personal space invaded. All I meant was that I don't want to live with a lot of people, especially if there are a bunch of poly situations and drama over who's fucking who going on!
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 03-22-2014 at 06:14 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-22-2014, 06:33 PM
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All I meant was that I don't want to live with a lot of people, especially if there are a bunch of poly situations and drama over who's fucking who going on!
This I understand. I grew up in a very crowded home with 5 other people and 3 cats. I had my own bedroom at my grandmother's, but only stayed there part time. Otherwise, I've always shared a bedroom. I love living with my husband and son, but we all need space and typically can spend several hours in different rooms on different levels of the house. I wouldn't mind living next door to Wendigo, his wife, or his son and we have had interactions with them at social events, but I would not want to live with him/them or more than 2 other people ever again unless we had some really huge Victorian mansion. I am very anti poly drama, but am friends with or at least like my metamours because they are all people we met through our various social circles before becoming involved with each other. (You'd be surprised at the overlap between poly, kinky, geeky, and gamer social circles in upstate NY). This isn't a requirement on my end, but it is something I enjoy because it's always nice to spend time with generally like minded folks.
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  #16  
Old 03-25-2014, 11:02 AM
vanquish vanquish is offline
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While I'm sorry anyone was offended by the term breeder, it is in part because you are attaching your own connotations to the word that werent my intent. I never said all people who want children are detestable. My own parents would fit into that mold. I don't make a habit of going around insulting people.

I do happen to live in the South, where the practice of following the ultra-traditional family path with procreation being the highest calling is pervasive and more than borders on cult-like and is highly oppressive. As I use the term (not how anyone else receives it), these are the people who are one category of people Im forced to relate to.

I stick by my original comment that a lot of people bring their own conventions into polyamorism and try to enforce it as normal. Live your life however you want as long as you're not hurting anyone. Just don't try to push it on me.
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  #17  
Old 03-25-2014, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
Marcus, I'm curious, why would two metamours who don't like each other lead you to start looking for cowgirl behavior? The two are not necessarily related.
On one end it would be an intellectual curiosity for me if I end up dating two people who just can't seem to get along. It would be one of those "what is it about my desires which draw me to two people who are repelled by one another?". My poly experience with multiple metamours was positive in which all of us got along pretty well and I could "get" why my partner liked them.

The situation which would make me start to immediately watch out for cowgirl behavior would be intense dislike from one party to another. Not wanting to spend time with someone for whatever reason is nothing new, but having an actually negative opinion or some personality grievance would make me wonder. That isn't to say that possessiveness is necessarily the cause but I'd certainly perk up my ears to keep an eye on it.

So it would be a matter of degree for me. What I was thinking when I mentioned the cowgirl concern was the super-drama on these boards with a metamour freaking out with high school drama regarding another metamour. I find that adults don't frequently despise acquaintances.
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  #18  
Old 03-25-2014, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by vanquish View Post
While I'm sorry anyone was offended by the term breeder, it is in part because you are attaching your own connotations to the word that werent my intent.
Well, it's not really my own connotation, but a fairly well-defined (derogatory) usage in the Childfree community:

http://kids-no-thanks-en.tumblr.com/...hildfree-terms

http://ramonacreel.com/rants-for-all...ld-free-terms/

I remember poking my head into Childfree USENET groups and the like, before I had kids - it was a good way of knowing what types of behavior bother the piss out of other people.
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Chops: My partner. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
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  #19  
Old 03-25-2014, 03:32 PM
seakinganswers seakinganswers is offline
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This all made so much sense to me. If you have never been in a relationship with a person who unknowingly uses passive aggressive and manipulative approaches to control every aspect of your life then you may not get the point of the blog. I am in that relationship now and I am finally finding ways to show her the damage she has done and why. Previously I couldn't figure out why it drive me so crazy and drove so many nails into the coffin that once was a beautiful relationship. And let me state, our relationship is not poly. The point of the blog actually goes far beyond poly. It's all the times I want to do anything fun that doesn't involve her. She is never happy for me when I get an opportunity to go do something fun.

Everything I do or don't do is about her comfort level. The answer used to always be no because she was never comfortable with anything I wanted to do. Then she "saw the light" and started letting me do things knowing if she held on too tight she would lose me. But I'm never allowed to leave without first being made to feel bad about the fact that she didn't have a similar opportunity. Then she would attempt to make sure I understood all the reasons she was uncomfortable with the situation and make sure and explain all the things I could and couldn't do while I was there. Things like how late I stay out, what kind of places we end up at, who would be there, what the male to female ratio was, how much I drink, etc, etc. and I always go anyways now because I'm not falling for her stupid control issues. What she really deep down wants me to do us say, "Oh I'm sorry honey. If it makes you feel uncomfortable then I won't go because I love you so much." But then of course if that's what I do then I'm just giving in to her controlling ways.
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  #20  
Old 03-25-2014, 04:14 PM
vanquish vanquish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YouAreHere View Post
Well, it's not really my own connotation, but a fairly well-defined (derogatory) usage in the Childfree community:

http://kids-no-thanks-en.tumblr.com/...hildfree-terms

http://ramonacreel.com/rants-for-all...ld-free-terms/

I remember poking my head into Childfree USENET groups and the like, before I had kids - it was a good way of knowing what types of behavior bother the piss out of other people.
Again, what you expect someone else means by a word isn't necessarily what I mean by that word. Different groups use terms differently.
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