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  #21  
Old 04-09-2010, 07:25 PM
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What was it specifically that disgusted her?

I remember being in that limbo place of mourning the loss of my mono time in my marriage. Nerdist did too. The fact of the matter was that there was unhappiness there and the change was for the better. I know it might not seem like it right now, but that change will bring new things to your life and create new opportunities for you as much as her. It doesn't necessarily mean less time together, although often it does. It will mean quality time together and deeper meaning, connection and love between you both. There is something amazing in that and worth it. I hope that that is what you experience. Its early days yet it seems for you. Taking it slow and moving into a new way of being will help. *hugs* you sound like might need one see already a benefit! Hugs from a strange woman on line
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  #22  
Old 04-09-2010, 07:43 PM
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What was it specifically that disgusted her?
My idea that it's okay to love multiple people, but not to have sex with them. That one really insulted her, as she's of the belief that if she loves somebody, she should be able to express if however feels right, including sex. I just find other ways of expressing it, if at all. Latent sexual tension and untold love exists between myself and many of my better female friends. I would never have sex with them. Just because. For more reasons than just the drama that could ensue. It just feels wrong. Sex isn't something I do with friends, it's something I do with a lover. Friends can become lovers, and lovers can become friends while staying lovers, but as long as somebody is just my friend, no matter how much I love them, I cannot have sex with them. And it doesn't cause me pain to know that I can't express that. Any tension that happens, I turn around and put into my current primary relationship. And as far as sex goes, I don't even feel the need for porn or "special alone time," because the only person I really want is my chosen lover.

I really hope that once something stable gets set up in this poly relationship, the relationship between the two of us does, indeed, get stronger, and that she doesn't forget that she needs to be very careful and pay attention to her original relationship as well as her new one.

For a person who doesn't like having to feel responsible for other peoples' emotions, she sure is willing to take the risk. I really hope we're both ready for this, and I really wish I had taken her seriously way back when she first told me, so the preparation would be over, and all that would be left would be the anticipation.

Thank you for the hug, strange internet woman. :P

Wow, this thread got way off-topic :P
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  #23  
Old 04-09-2010, 08:19 PM
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If you had of really understood what you were getting into when you first met her..would you still have pursued her? You think a lot like me in some ways my friend. Be strong, be brave and be healthy.
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  #24  
Old 04-09-2010, 08:31 PM
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I absolutely would have pursued her, regardless, but she might not have. She did tell me she would not have married me if she knew I had so many problems (because I do), because she was under the impression she was marrying a stable guy who had his shit together (I definitely did not exude that aura -- I lived with my mom, I was 21, and I worked tech support for $25k/year. I had no car of my own. I was immature, and I lived by my mother's schedule. Until I got fired on the same day I bought my new car, and then subsequently moved in with her. And then remained unemployed for 6 months. I have no idea how that looked like I had my shit together.). But we talked about it, and, in the end, we have both improved immeasurably since our marriage. Instead of just fighting, saying we're breaking up, and then turning around a couple of hours later, try to break the bed, and then ignoring our problems until the next fight, we have fought to keep the marriage together and stable, and used it as a strong foothold while we climb our way to being better people. She and I have both improved so much and matured greatly since getting married. So we definitely don't regret it. We just regret not having good communication skills until very recently, and avoiding talking about REAL problems at the CORE of our relationship. Too bad, but hell, we still love one another, and we're still trying to grow together. That's what counts, right? If one of those disappears, it's usually only temporary. If both disappear, then maybe there's a real problem that we can't fix; but in the middle of a fight or a deep depression are the only times we don't feel our love for one another, and only because the depression or anger is in the way.

Last edited by SimpleSimian; 04-09-2010 at 08:33 PM.
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  #25  
Old 04-09-2010, 08:50 PM
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Thanks for being so honest. Very cool
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  #26  
Old 04-10-2010, 11:09 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Why, in a mono/poly relationship, does the monogamous person have to be the one who changes? Why can't the polyamorous person be the one to confront polyamory within themselves and teach themselves to be happy with the idea of spending their life with only one partner, circular logic included?
There is nothing that says such doesn't happen. Indeed, part of doing poly is that one negotiates how relationships develop--so poly folk can also negotiate a mono pairing.

I've done so. I've negotiated open relationships, poly relationships, and even a mono relationship or two.

There's absolutely no evidence that poly folks negotiate mono pairings in any lesser numbers than mono people negotiating nonmonogamous pairings (when adjusting for the lower numbers of poly folk in the population). It appears to me a large majority of poly folk were involved in mono pairings prior to actively identifying as poly--which means each of them negotiated mono pairings prior to actively doing poly.

So, poly folk have and still do negotiate mono pairings, though it's much less likely to happen once they step up as actively poly.

And I have to say I think this question is distant relation to asking why gay folks who have come out don't simply forsake their sexual preferences to remain with a hetero partner. A bi person coming out certainly could remain in a hetero pairing and negotiate a mono or nonmono relationship structure--and that may be the situation that fits best. The hetero partner isn't asked to become gay or bi to continue the relationship, so that partner doesn't have to change--it's the bi person who has to negotiate whether to live hetero or find a gay outlet, also.

So a poly person involved with a mono person is always the one who has to adjust the most. The mono person can always remain mono--tied to but a single partner. It's the poly person who has to decide and adjust to do a single relationship or do multiple relationships. Note that the poly person doesn't expect the mono person to suddenly desire to have multiple relationships, so isn't expecting the mono to suddenly become nonmono; your question discounts the fact that it is only the poly person who is required to change at all, from doing multiple ties to doing single ties.

I think that's the key concept. A mono person involved with a poly person can remain mono without any expectation of ever changing. It is always the poly person involved in those ties who would have to change.

It turns out your question is then based on a false premise--that a mono person would have to change when involved with a poly person. That's not the case. The mono can stay mono--it's only the poly who would have to change and do mono.
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  #27  
Old 04-11-2010, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
A mono person involved with a poly person can remain mono without any expectation of ever changing. It is always the poly person involved in those ties who would have to change.

It turns out your question is then based on a false premise--that a mono person would have to change when involved with a poly person. That's not the case. The mono can stay mono--it's only the poly who would have to change and do mono.
The thing to consider however is that most monos will enter a relationship with another assumed mono expecting a sexually exclusive relationship. So if one partner than expresses a desire for more sexual partners (because deep friendships shouldn't be an issue in a secure relationship of any type) the mono person does have to make a huge change in expectations and fundamental values. They have to decide if they will, and can, be fulfilled by a partner who does not love in the same way they do....with sexual exclusivity. That is an enormous change to ask of a partner.

Now if a mono person enters into a relationship with full understanding that it is sexually open, that is a totally different case. The same question will be asked but the expectations should be more realistic.

And I know someone will point out that I am implying poly is heavily based on sex....I admit it, I do. If it wasn't for the desire to have sex with people who fullfill other needs then I wouldn't even think about it. It would just be friendships to me and therefore not an issue.....jeez I'm not that possessive
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  #28  
Old 04-11-2010, 06:02 AM
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Lots of poly people force themselves to be mono, making the compromise for their partner.

You just don't see a lot of them on poly websites and poly support groups, because most of them don't know there's any such thing as poly. They grow up in a monogamous society, expecting that's just "the way to do" a relationship.

Others are cheaters, who have lovers where it's not "just sex" but really emotional. And among those, a lot of the lovers keep waiting and hoping for them to leave their husband/wife, thinking that if they love the lover, it means they don't love their husband/wife. But they love both people, so they carry on the charade.

And then you've got the people who "discover" polyamory and learn that it's an option. Usually when that happens, they realize that they just can't lie to themselves and their partner any longer, they have to follow their heart to be true to themselves. Or, some poly people, like me, feel it's something in them but don't make a big deal of it. If I meet someone else and we have a connection, then cool. But I'm not going out looking for something, because I'm happy with my life and my husband.
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  #29  
Old 04-11-2010, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post

I think that's the key concept. A mono person involved with a poly person can remain mono without any expectation of ever changing. It is always the poly person involved in those ties who would have to change.

It turns out your question is then based on a false premise--that a mono person would have to change when involved with a poly person. That's not the case. The mono can stay mono--it's only the poly who would have to change and do mono.
Hi Autumnal,

Although I see entirely the logic - and therefore the conclusion you used in your post, I think it may come from taking the concept of "change" too literally.

In this context - "change" - really seems to refer more to understanding (truly) a way of thinking that may be completely outside ones background and experience. When you view it as you did here, as more of an "action" concept then I'd see where you come from.

But the issue seems to be a struggle to understand and embrace a totally different philosophy. Most poly minded people understand the monogamous model quite well. In fact, likely they have been living it. There's not much requirement for them to get their mind around it and what it might entail in the way of "action".

But for people who have ONLY ever understood monogamy there's a big learning curve. And a big part of that curve for some is just accepting that there may actually BE other models that are every bit as valid as the single one they were taught.

THAT is not so easy.

None of this addresses any "actions" that may need to be taken that are different than previous actions. Actions are somewhat easier once we have the real understanding clear in our mind. Then it just becomes "choices". Not that that is "easy", because it isn't always, but still it's generally far easier than reprogramming our brains.

My thoughts anyway..........

GS
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  #30  
Old 04-11-2010, 04:48 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
The thing to consider however is that most monos will enter a relationship with another assumed mono expecting a sexually exclusive relationship. So if one partner than expresses a desire for more sexual partners (because deep friendships shouldn't be an issue in a secure relationship of any type) the mono person does have to make a huge change in expectations and fundamental values. They have to decide if they will, and can, be fulfilled by a partner who does not love in the same way they do....with sexual exclusivity. That is an enormous change to ask of a partner.
True. I don't see that change as great as having to choose to do mono when one naturally tends to do poly, though. It's the degree of change involved: on the one side, a mono still has a mono tie, it's the partner who has multiple ties; on the other side, a poly has to choose to do poly or mono, which involves personal behavior instead of only expectations of the partner changing behavior. The first is a change in expectations of a partner and the second involves a change in personal expression of relationships--a world of difference between the changes to be negotiated.

Quote:
Now if a mono person enters into a relationship with full understanding that it is sexually open, that is a totally different case. The same question will be asked but the expectations should be more realistic.
Certainly.

Quote:
And I know someone will point out that I am implying poly is heavily based on sex....I admit it, I do. If it wasn't for the desire to have sex with people who fullfill other needs then I wouldn't even think about it. It would just be friendships to me and therefore not an issue.....jeez I'm not that possessive
For some people, their poly tendencies likely are based on sex. The same is true for some mono folks--they wouldn't bother with close romantic relationships without sex being involved. All of the motivations for entering relationships apply to mono folk and poly folk alike. I have no objection to you pointing that out because it is true for some percentage of the poly population at all times.
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When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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