A Dilemma

[jv02vd]

Heyyo, thanks all for your advice.

I'm definitely going to try to work on this depression thing before I start seriously carrying through with anything. Even if I'm not "cured", I'm going to make sure I can make her happy to the best of my abilities before I even think of bringing anything up. And if it's been depression to blame, well, I've had it as long as I've known her (4-5 years now) so it's not something new and presumptive.

I do think I'll be bringing this up with her soon though. But even though a poly situation isn't my ideal, I think I'll at least give her that option. It's only fair, given the situation. And it'll give me a way to actually try and "win her back" properly. I lost her the first time because I was afraid to have her compare me to Mr Poly Guy, so it's only appropriate really that it should come to that now. I'd still like her to be monogamous with me eventually, and she'll know that even without me saying anything. But right now, I think she's important enough to me that I'm willing to accept what she's willing to give.

Wish me luck!

[classycaveman]

Originally Posted by jv02vd

Heyyo, thanks all for your advice.

I'm definitely going to try to work on this depression thing before I start seriously carrying through with anything. Even if I'm not "cured", I'm going to make sure I can make her happy to the best of my abilities before I even think of bringing anything up. And if it's been depression to blame, well, I've had it as long as I've known her (4-5 years now) so it's not something new and presumptive.

I do think I'll be bringing this up with her soon though. But even though a poly situation isn't my ideal, I think I'll at least give her that option. It's only fair, given the situation. And it'll give me a way to actually try and "win her back" properly. I lost her the first time because I was afraid to have her compare me to Mr Poly Guy, so it's only appropriate really that it should come to that now. I'd still like her to be monogamous with me eventually, and she'll know that even without me saying anything. But right now, I think she's important enough to me that I'm willing to accept what she's willing to give.

Wish me luck!

OK but she may not be willing to lose you again. Depends on how freely she loves. I have exes I would love to spend a few hot steamy nights with again, but the idea of building up a relationship only to have them say "I want you to myself, dump the rest" doesn't appeal to me. So that may be all you'd get from her... a few great nights.

That might be enough though. I've always been of the opinion that feelings are just that... feelings. Especially romantic feelings. They can be turned off if you really want to turn them off. A few nights with her might be enough to satisfy the cravings you've been having, lead you to a sense of closure and then you may be able to move on. 4 or 5 years is a lot of time to build something up in your mind to unrealistic proportions.

My advice would be not to approach her and offer her a particular relationship, but rather arrange to get together for a visit, have a few drinks and see how things develop. Love shouldn't be scheduled and arranged. (I realize in poly situations this is often unavoidable, lol... but I digress...) It should be spontaneous.

I think it would be a good idea for you to see her again and allow each other the chance to feel and experience all those good things again, but don't expect her to leave the other guy. It's just not gonna happen man. Have fun.

[jv02vd]

Originally Posted by classycaveman

OK but she may not be willing to lose you again. Depends on how freely she loves. I have exes I would love to spend a few hot steamy nights with again, but the idea of building up a relationship only to have them say "I want you to myself, dump the rest" doesn't appeal to me. So that may be all you'd get from her... a few great nights.

That might be enough though. I've always been of the opinion that feelings are just that... feelings. Especially romantic feelings. They can be turned off if you really want to turn them off. A few nights with her might be enough to satisfy the cravings you've been having, lead you to a sense of closure and then you may be able to move on. 4 or 5 years is a lot of time to build something up in your mind to unrealistic proportions.

My advice would be not to approach her and offer her a particular relationship, but rather arrange to get together for a visit, have a few drinks and see how things develop. Love shouldn't be scheduled and arranged. (I realize in poly situations this is often unavoidable, lol... but I digress...) It should be spontaneous.

I think it would be a good idea for you to see her again and allow each other the chance to feel and experience all those good things again, but don't expect her to leave the other guy. It's just not gonna happen man. Have fun.

((Apologies for rambling so much, but I really need to talk this stuff through.))

I should, perhaps, clarify that this has nothing to do with "hot and steamy". I can see how you got that impression, but to be honest I'm not at all a sexual person. I'm open and obliging, "Good Giving and Game", but it's not really on my own radar. That might be the depression again, but she'd know to expect that of me too.

What it's about, for me, is romance and intimacy. Sleepovers, cuddles, silly poems, mutual emotional support, companionship. Despite my flaws, I think I can provide all those things for her. And despite her flaws, I think she can provide all those things for me. It's never going to be nearly as "hot and steamy" as it is with Mr Poly Dude, and that's part of the reason I backed out two years ago... but y'know, I like to think what I'm offering now is good too. I like to think I'm a "keeper", someone for her to settle down and raise a family with in the long term, if that's what she wants.

Right now I don't know what she wants on this level. Maybe she wants the sort of casual thing she has now, maybe she's hoping to eventually move to something more settled. Maybe she'll move into something more settled with Mr Poly Dude (even if she's not his primary, though that seems odd to my non-poly mindset).

That part comes way later though. For now I just want to be there for her, to rebuild some of that sense of intimacy and companionship. I know she still trusts me and turns to me for emotional support on occasion, even though we're just friends, so the chord hasn't been entirely severed. Maybe it can be rebuilt, with time and effort and patience, and maybe it can't. Maybe what I'm offering is what she needs, maybe she's getting everything she needs from Mr Poly Dude. I don't know.

I do know one thing though - she's worth the effort. I'm going to give it a shot and see how things go.

[classycaveman]

Originally Posted by jv02vd

I should, perhaps, clarify that this has nothing to do with "hot and steamy". I can see how you got that impression, but to be honest I'm not at all a sexual person.

Ok, well yes, sorry, I was trying to relate your situation to my experience, but the fact remains that fun is fun, but investing time and effort in something like "romance and intimacy. Sleepovers, cuddles, silly poems, mutual emotional support, companionship" and then finding out it can only continue in a monogamous context, just doesn't seem like a good time to a poly person (or at least, this poly person.)

Sounds like you've already made up your mind to give it a shot though. Hope you're ok with just being friends, because I can't see this working for you any other way.

Originally Posted by jv02vd

Right now I don't know what she wants on this level.

In my experience, as a general rule, women don't know what they want. LOL! So who knows. Maybe you can turn her mono. But I doubt it.

Originally Posted by jv02vd

For now I just want to be there for her, to rebuild some of that sense of intimacy and companionship. I know she still trusts me and turns to me for emotional support on occasion, even though we're just friends, so the chord hasn't been entirely severed.

This just sounds like being a good friend to me.

Originally Posted by jv02vd

I do know one thing though - she's worth the effort. I'm going to give it a shot and see how things go.

Well I've always loved cheering for the underdog. I hope things work out, bud!

[jv02vd]

So, for all those curious, I finally told her.

It got delayed a few times because of general stuff going on in her life; I didn't want to throw that at her while she was overwhelmed with university and other drama. Today was the first day she was really clear, with nothing on her plate. Awesome.

It went... really well, actually. She was flattered and gratified, made it clear she did not presently reciprocate, and we had a very lovely conversation on the subject before moving on to other things. She took the whole thing completely in stride, and said she was very glad to hear it. All in all I'd call it a solid success and I can now move on with my life that much more easily.

Yay!

[EugenePoet]

Yay indeed!

Stay friends. If at some point becoming lovers is possible, if you've been a considerate and honest friend then that's karma in your favor. But I'm sure you understand that already.

Depression. You may know all this info.

Meds can help. They usually decrease sex drive; for me they decreased creativity as well. That's not true, or variably true, for other people. Therapy can help but if the cause is mostly organic -- ie, in your serotonin metabolism -- then therapy may not be at all effective.

If you notice seasonal biases (sad in November, happy in May) then a light-box may help.

Life changes can alleviate depression. Since I left my dysfunctional marriage I have not had the bouts of deep depression which dogged me for many years before that. Taking artistic control of my life may have altered my psychological outlook. But I changed my body shape, exercise regime, and my diet for the better during that time as well, and that may have had considerable biological effect.

So I'm not going to pretend I understand the cause-and-effect stuff even in my personal experience, and I'm not going to say "do this and you'll get better." I'm way not qualified to do that.

This is just some random info. Good luck!

[jv02vd]

Originally Posted by EugenePoet

Yay indeed!

Stay friends. If at some point becoming lovers is possible, if you've been a considerate and honest friend then that's karma in your favor. But I'm sure you understand that already.

Depression. You may know all this info.

Meds can help. They usually decrease sex drive; for me they decreased creativity as well. That's not true, or variably true, for other people. Therapy can help but if the cause is mostly organic -- ie, in your serotonin metabolism -- then therapy may not be at all effective.

If you notice seasonal biases (sad in November, happy in May) then a light-box may help.

Life changes can alleviate depression. Since I left my dysfunctional marriage I have not had the bouts of deep depression which dogged me for many years before that. Taking artistic control of my life may have altered my psychological outlook. But I changed my body shape, exercise regime, and my diet for the better during that time as well, and that may have had considerable biological effect.

So I'm not going to pretend I understand the cause-and-effect stuff even in my personal experience, and I'm not going to say "do this and you'll get better." I'm way not qualified to do that.

This is just some random info. Good luck!

Thanks!

Honestly, what I have (if anything; I've not been officially diagnosed although I may try working on that) might be more accurately described as "Dysthymia", a mild but chronic form. It's something I'm working through though, and I really think I'm making some slow but steady progress on my own. Even this whole recent drama is a good sign, because it was started by a level of emotional involvement I haven't felt in years.

In any case, thanks for your support and your advice!

[classycaveman]

First off, glad you aren't viewing it as a failure. Good job.

Second, yes, keep the friendship going, but also be sure to pursue other women. It's not just about looking desirable to her, although having other women around you would have that effect, it's also about, like you said, "getting on with your life." I hope things go well for you.

[saudade]

@jv02vd: You posted one particular paragraph that hits my buttons strongly. I don't know anything about you or her, except what you've written here, so I'm trying not to make assumptions, but I see some red flags. For what it's worth, I am very poly, and some kind of depressed myself (getting into therapy to find out the particulars) . I'm actually going to respond to your paragraph bit by bit. Here goes:

I do think I'll be bringing this up with her soon though. But even though a poly situation isn't my ideal, I think I'll at least give her that option. It's only fair, given the situation.

Is poly just not your ideal, or is it not for you at all? It's okay to be unsure and give it a try, but if you know it's not your lovestyle, then I really don't recommend doing it.

And it'll give me a way to actually try and "win her back" properly. I lost her the first time because I was afraid to have her compare me to Mr Poly Guy, so it's only appropriate really that it should come to that now.

I'm with SchrodingersCat: anyone who ever gives me a relationship ultimatum is gone, period. There's actually a bit of poly jargon to describe someone doing what you're talking about; a 'cowboy' is someone who enters a poly relationship with the intent of breaking it up and grabbing one of the partners monogamously. If I were your ex and you told me this was your plan, I'd be out the door.

I'd still like her to be monogamous with me eventually, and she'll know that even without me saying anything.

That someone will know something without you saying it is easily one of the most dangerous assumptions you can make in any relationship. I could easily see myself being in her shoes, and assuming that you wouldn't have come to her about a relationship unless you had realized you were interested in having a poly one, which is exactly the opposite of what you're saying! My advice is to state everything explicitly-- especially when it's something this big.

But right now, I think she's important enough to me that I'm willing to accept what she's willing to give.

This is very much a devil's advocate sort of question, so please take it in that spirit: will she not be important enough to you for that later?

With that paragraph covered, I have one more bit of advice to offer. I've been depressed (or something like it) for nearly a decade myself. I'm finally getting into therapy, and I'm looking forward to not having to go it alone any longer. I don't know the details of your situation, but I can't help but suggest that you consider professional assistance in some form.

No matter what happens, good luck! Thanks for being brave enough to bare your soul on here. Keep sharing-- we're here.

[AutumnalTone]

Originally Posted by jv02vd

This guy came along though, exactly her "type" (way more than me) and big on the poly scene. She's poly herself, so I gave permission for them to fool around a bit. I was comfortable with that, still am a bit. Only, turns out "fooling around" led to romantic feelings, and that I wasn't comfortable with.

I'm quite happy to hear that you're shaking off the depression! That's always a good thing. I have to say, though, that I don't see much of a future in the situation you described.

This girl is poly. That means she engages in multiple relationships, as that's what poly means. You are not poly. You said you were OK with an open relationship--sex without romantic ties--and not poly. That makes for an incompatible match.

I guess you could always ask her out. If it seems the two of you still have some chemistry and can build something, then you can ask if she's up for an open relationship instead of poly relationships--as the two are different things. If she can't live without doing poly and you can't live with doing poly, then you're not compatible and I don't see much good coming of trying to pursue it.

I know a couple mono women whom I would love to have relationships with and realize that such isn't possible. Those provide an occasional melancholic reverie on what might have been, had we proven compatible.