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Old 02-16-2014, 02:05 PM
wishingATX wishingATX is offline
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Default young.. confused.. hurt?

Okay.. I have been an emotional wreck lately. The relationship I have been in I believe to be the cause of this.

We started seeing each other a couple of months ago. I have great respect for this person and have grown to really adore them. We are not dating exclusively which is entirely cool by me, apart from a few things.

I want to run these things by the forums to hear other people's opinions on how one should act or feel with respect to each scenario.

Background:
When we first decided to start seeing each other romantically, we discussed how we would not be seeing each other exclusively. Awesome! I have difficulty reserving my love from others. She asked me how I felt about being with another partner in bed, so I explained that I would perhaps be open to discussing possible future bed-mates, but that I was NOT immediately comfortable being in bed with another guy that was also horny. I am not attracted to males and at the time, it is still a turn off for me.

Scenario 1:
I am invited on a date to a bar for drinks and a nice time. I have a blast! I meet her other relationship there which was awesome but not entirely expected (nor vocalized by her). Keep in mind, this is the first time I have met this guy.

Afterwards, her and I travel back to her place by ourselves to continue the festivities and have sex. Well just before we get to having sex, she tells me that she has invited over her other partner. I think, "Great, not going to be having sex for a while." Because I had previously told her that it would not make me feel comfortable being in bed with another horny guy that wants to have sex with the same girl as me at the same time. It just.. doesn't make me feel comfortable. It might for others, not me. I made a good effort to get this point across to her previously.

So, as the three of us hang out.. the night gets very late. We had been drinking and for anybody to drive would just be stupid. I still really wanted to have sex with her, and assumed I had priority of love for the night, so I would have wanted him to sleep on the couch, or in bed with us if no sex was going to happen (but I really wanted to have sex with her, so the couch was in my mind). I did not vocalize this. So as we all begin to settle down, she asks me, "Can we all cuddle in bed?" Yes. Cuddling is not sex and I am in no way against a writhing ball of cuddling bodies. Well this cuddling went on for a bit and before I knew it they both had their clothes off and were under the sheets. Stunned by deception, I lay there on top of the sheets with my clothes still on. She is rubbing me, but I don't quite know what to think at the time. It felt like steel blades across my chest. She tries to make me feel comfortable, and I eventually take my clothes off and hop in the sheets. Just moments later, they begin to have sex in front of me. I wanted to throw up. I lay there for a minute or two longer. I am not sure how to articulate the things going through my brain at that moment. I felt incredibly deceived (I had told her previously that this would make me uncomfortable, sad (that I was invited on a date and did not have love priority (I mean this more in a sense of time. Love is easier to share than time.), but most of all.. I felt sooo uncomfortable. My stomach churned. I removed myself from the situation by saying, "Guys.. I'm not sure if I really like this. I think I'm going to leave." I slowly got out of bed to try to not disturb the love setting that had been created, put my clothes on, and began to leave. She stopped and got out of bed and tried consoling me. I could not be consoled that night. I left and felt really shitty for at least 24 hours. My heart ached of lost-love and my stomach ached from stress. I explained to her my feelings and she was kind of receptive to it I guess. I said that I stayed in bed with them for so long because I wanted to give it a try, but after a while I learned that it was not comfortable for me at all. I said that I did not want to do that again for a while. I forgave her. She is awesome but maybe I've put her on too high of a pedestal..

Scenario 2:
So a week or so passes. We had seen each other a few times within that time frame. We had made plans a few days before hanging out, to hang out exclusively. Well we did spend the day/night together but around 11:30PM she says , "Oh shit I forgot I invited over ____ (other partner).. Is that okay?" I duly respond, "Oh.. sure."

In my mind, "Really? After last week? Hmm... let's see how this plays out."

Well long story short, the same thing happens again. We all end up in bed together. I went for it entirely this time. We both had sex with her and it was okay.. not the greatest sex I've had. In fact, the worst. I do like her other partner a lot as a person as we have some common interests, but I am not physically attracted to him at all. Needless to say, this was not an enjoyable experience, but I went through with it. The next morning, I told this to her. Again, she seemed kind of receptive to it.. I guess. This time I didn't hurt so much.. perhaps still numbed by the previous week.

Well yesterday I did hang out with her again. We had the most spectacular time together and hung out for most of the day. We began to touch each other and I was very involved. My mind and body felt amazing, being with her.

I began to touch her vagina and she liked it very much. I asked her if she wanted more and she nodded yes. I crawled down to give oral before penetration when I noticed something odd.. was it the string to a condom? No. WTF is this thing? Oh.. there is semen coming out of your vagina. Attractive... no. Immediately sickening, yes. I crawled back up next to her and let her know what was going on down there. Turned on my side and went to sleep. I woke up and barely said a word to her, but was very nice to her as we parted ways.

Well after sleeping on it, I still don't really know WTF to think. We have plans to hang out today and before last night, I would have been very excited to see this girl. I almost want to find something else to do today.. and it makes me very sad because this girl attracts me in so many ways. But these few things that have occurred make her so unattractive in my eyes.

Can somebody with more experience in love please shed some light on my situation? I want to love her, but I'm not sure if I am capable any longer.

Please... I would love to hear some other's perspectives. I am very hurt and can justify it in my mind but what do you y'all think?
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:00 PM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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I don't think she is purposefully trying to hurt you, but it is clear that she keeps disrespecting your boundaries. Is it because she doesn't understand them on an emotional level - possibly. She may be cool having sex with another woman, unlike your feeling toward another man. You are probably in a better positions to answer this than me. Could be she's a bit self centered and is so enjoying have two men that want her that she doesn't keep track of your boundaries - only what she is feeling. Again, this speaks to negligence; not malice.

Now, while my love and I always shower before sex out of common courtesy (and given that we barely have time for one another are not currently involved with others), while I don't think it was cool of your gf to let you go down on her without notification first, I imagine in her mind, you both came in her the night you all had sex, so she probably didn't understand what the big deal was. So she had sex with him right before she was going to have sex with you. To me, she made hygienic faux pas - one that I wouldn't make - but it seems to me that you felt betrayed she had sex with the other guy before she met up with you?

My only other suggestion, is since you seem to have a good relationship with her other bf, you might ask him his thoughts on these matters. I am in no way saying you should change your thinking / feelings on the subject, but perhaps knowing how others look it these issues would be beneficial.

And have you asked your gf why she keeps disrespecting your boundaries? Or what would make her think you'd be cool giving her oral when she hadn't showered since her previous encounter?
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:36 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

As said: she has no respect for your boundaries. I wouldn't be seeing someone like that again.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:41 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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First thing, I don't believe in "should," especially in terms of feelings. You feel what you feel, and it's valid because they're your feelings. Hurt feelings are a sign that you have unmet needs, in this case for honesty and predictability.

It sounds like there's some room for clarity. You keep saying she's receptive to it... sort of. Well, either she understands or she doesn't. If she can't understand how you feel (empathy) then she can at least understand your explicit boundaries, e.g. if you say we're having an exclusive date, don't invite other people over. But for your part, don't be a wet noodle. For example, when she asks "do you mind?" when her other partner is coming over and you had exclusive plans, tell her the truth: "Actually, yes I do. We agreed that tonight would be just the two of us. If you'd rather spend the time with him, then I'd prefer to go home."

Reading between the lines, I get the impression that you're a "nice guy" who doesn't always stand up for himself, and then gets resentful when people take advantage of your easygoing nature. People treat us the way we teach them to treat us. Every time she treats this way and you just back down, it teaches her that this is acceptable. If you don't think it's acceptable, then it's on you to stand up for yourself.

...

Last thing, a note about female anatomy... White stuff isn't necessarily semen. Depending on her personal chemistry and biology, that could be the natural appearance of her vaginal fluid. This caught Gralson off guard once, because I was really turned on and I produced some whitish fluid that basically looked like semen. Women and men have basically the same parts, but they're in different places. He got really upset, thinking I'd cheated on him (i.e. had sex with another man without telling him, as per our agreement) but I hadn't. So if something like that happens, ask her about it.

If you were with her most of the day and then started having sex, then any semen from another guy probably would have been absorbed and / or flushed out by the time you got down to business. Assuming "most of the day" doesn't mean just "an hour or two."
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:14 PM
vanquish vanquish is offline
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Not to get too graphic, but I have to agree. "White stuff" can definitely be things other than semen. Sometimes vaginal fluid is white naturally. Other times it can lather and be white. Sweat can even be white. If you confronted her about it and she didn't deny it was semen, I'd be tempted to say you were right, however she could have just not wanted to deal with the argument - i.e. just lie (by omission) and "admit" to being with someone else.

I agree with everyone else. Be very clear about your boundaries. Give her examples of how she's disrespected them in the past. And then if it happens again, bounce.
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:15 PM
Tigergirl Tigergirl is offline
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Honestly, this girl sounds like a pretty selfish person to me. From what you tell, she seems like she really doesn't give a crap about your boundaries. Particularly the "oh, I forgot I invited him" situation bothers me- it feels like a set up on her part to get what she wanted (2 guys at once), knowing you'd be "nice guy" about it so she could manipulate it in to happening. It makes me feel like she cares less about you and more about getting her rocks off. It also actually sort of seems like she almost enjoys playing with you emotionally in this way- which some people are okay with, but it doesn't sound like you are. If you choose to continue dating her, I would not predict the situation changing much on her part- and if it did, my guess is there would be lots of huffing and puffing and passive aggressive behavior on her part to guilt you back in to the behavior she wants. Coming at it from a female perspective- if I spoke to my friends about a guy treating me this way, all I would hear is what a shithead he is and that being coerced in to a sexual encounter that makes me that uncomfortable after having stated my boundaries is at the least borderline rape-y. I don't think that perspective should change that much just because you're a man and she's a woman.

The other factor here is you and your behavior. Stop being wishy washy. If you don't like something, don't worry about being "nice". Speak up. She's certainly not going to worry about your well being- you need to stand up for yourself and put your emotional health in this situation first. You're only a couple months in to this relationship and there have already been at least three situations where you feel that your boundaries were disrespected. In my experience, behavioral patterns speak more than anything about a person- her pattern is of disregarding your feelings and setting up the situation so she gets exactly what she wants, without much care about hurting others. She might say differently, but until she changes her patterns in to healthy behaviors, you will continue to be treated in a similar fashion. People don't change their patterns unless they have a pretty strong incentive- such as a person who won't accept their negative behavior. Will she change, I don't know. But you have negative behavior patterns as well- being passive during uncomfortable situations and hoping others will take care of you, then being hurt when they don't, although you never clearly state what you need from them. Perhaps working on that might do you good, both in this relationship and future ones. You can't control what other people do, but you can control yourself and create healthier interactions on your end.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:03 PM
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ICanBeStunning ICanBeStunning is offline
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She's manipulative and self-centered. You'd be better off without her. The first scenario should have been enough. She not only bamboozled you into meeting this other person, but she had sex with him in front of you in spite of your protests.

Seriously, cut your losses, work on expressing your own boundaries better and try to let go of the idea of "love priority". It's good that you recognize that she, and not the other guy, is the issue. I don't understand why you think that you should get 'first dibs', so to speak, on sex.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:07 AM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Hi wishingATX,

I like all the advice given here so far, even though it's not all identical advice. I think that overall, you have three choices:
  • keep doing the same things (asking her for one thing, then settling for something else when she pulls a bait and switch on you),
  • be gentle but firm about your boundaries (uh no honey, I already told you I wasn't okay with this sort of thing),
  • cut the ties and seek a new girlfriend (one who won't make you repeat yourself in order to get your needs met).
It largely has to do with what you want in a girlfriend. Do you want someone who's considerate enough to do as you asked beforehand? or can you live with someone who's maybe a little selfish and needs reminders/insistences from you?

One thing I'd insist on is that if she promises a one-on-one night just you and her, then that's what she should deliver. Either that you're outta there (whether just for that night or for good -- is up to you).

And the thing with what happened when you went down on her? Kind of a gray area. I don't know that you and she clearly discussed beforehand whether cleaning up is a must between encounters. And of course as the others pointed out, we don't know whether semen is what you encountered.

But definitely don't just keep doing the same thing. Don't let her pull bait/switch tactics on you and then let her get by with it. Stick to your guns when you tell her beforehand you're not comfortable with something. Quit saying, "Oh, alright." No means no. Hold her accountable.

Well, that's my take on the situation. Hope it helps somewhat.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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