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  #91  
Old 02-17-2014, 06:11 AM
london london is offline
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My post was about the fact objectivity is questioned if the author is a Christian, but not if they are atheist.
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  #92  
Old 02-17-2014, 03:26 PM
wildflowers wildflowers is offline
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Hey Mags-
I second the thanks for the book links. This is a topic I've meant to read up on, but haven't yet gotten around to. It's nice to have some ideas of places to start. If you have any more suggestions I'd love to hear them.

Jane Q, I think secular Buddhism is a great term :-)
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  #93  
Old 02-17-2014, 07:12 PM
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Oldpolyman Oldpolyman is offline
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Hi Jane,
Unfortunately with fundies who can't think for themselves, they wouldn't even believe God himself, if he appeared to them, so I just don't really have anything to do with them. Perhaps some day they'll wake up to the fact that they're missing God's joy in loving.
>
Jane wrote:
Unfortunately...I'm afraid this link wouldn't help me at all with my (converted fundie) sister...as the site doesn't condone polyandry ("A woman having multiple men is an offence to God. Intimacy is marriage and a woman with multiple men has multiple husbands and out of line with God's Word. Men sleeping with the same woman are committing fornication.") and condemns polyamory outright ("Despite their protests to the contrary, polyamory or many loves is fornication. Sex is not to be used and abused with such godless liberalities." and "Polyamory is a wicked deception. Many loves or lovers based loosely on the concept that we are to love each other as Christ commanded is Bible abuse not adherence."...doh)
>
My view is that (as a former pastor) polyandry is just as valid as polygamy, since society no longer places women as property of men who need protection, and that even the new testament teaches that we are equal.
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  #94  
Old 02-17-2014, 09:26 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildflowers View Post
Hey Mags-
I second the thanks for the book links. This is a topic I've meant to read up on, but haven't yet gotten around to. It's nice to have some ideas of places to start. If you have any more suggestions I'd love to hear them.
Well, go ahead and read all Elaine Pagels' books

everything by Bart Ehrman, starting with Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why

Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism by John Spong (retired Anglican bishop)

Then read the entire New Annotated Oxford Bible; it's full of essays, translates Hebrew and Greek properly, tons of footnotes, admits when we do not know the meaning of a Hebrew word, comments on Bibical writing styles, politics of ancient times, tribal customs, shows evidence of who wrote each book of the Bible when, etc etc.

Then read The Jesus Mysteries: Was the original Jesus a Pagan God? by Freke and Gandy

Also I recommend The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity by MacCoby, who proposed it was Paul that invented Christianity, not Jesus. After all, half the NT is attributed to Paul, and the books he didnt write that are attributed to him are evidence of his power and the respect he commanded.

I've read many other books on historical criticism, but those should hold you for a while.
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  #95  
Old 02-18-2014, 03:56 AM
wildflowers wildflowers is offline
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I've read many other books on historical criticism, but those should hold you for a while.
I'll say!!!
Thanks.
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  #96  
Old 02-18-2014, 02:00 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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No problem.

I was looking through my bookshelves and saw this one too, The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man by Robert Price. Amazon printed this from the inside flap:


In THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING SON OF MAN, Robert M. Price, a noted biblical scholar and a member of the Jesus Seminar, investigates the historical accuracy of Jesus as written in the New Testament stories. Beginning with the assumption that Jesus indeed walked the earth, Price discovers that the Bible provides no paint with which to draw a historically accurate portrait of such an important religious figure. Price juxtaposes Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John's accounts of Jesus' life, revealing both well-known and not-so-obvious contradictions in the Gospels.

In his introduction, Price defines and defends higher criticism of the Bible, a tool he uses to reconcile history with Scripture. Next, Price presents the sources the Gospel writers used to compose their works, as well as the territory already charted by biblical scholarship. Price's investigation follows a traditional life-of-Jesus outline, starting with Jesus' birth--why is it celebrated on December 25? Was it really a virgin birth?

In chapter 4, Price analyzes Baptist and other Christian beliefs about Jesus and John the Baptist, proposing that the latter's role may not be historical. Price wrestles with the controversial question of miracles, setting the groundwork for judging the authenticity of these stories. Many miracle accounts, Price shows, have parallels in other Jewish and Hellenistic traditions, and each miracle story has a particular structure, which fits a general pattern. Does this mean that historians cannot judge any miracle stories as occurring historically?

After scrutinizing stories of Jesus as a man of the people, Price delves into the descriptions of the twelve disciples, analyzing each one, especially Simon Peter. In this thorough examination, Price draws parallels with other religious traditions. The next two chapters take this comparison a step further in a brief review of Buddhism. Finally, Price surveys the details of the accounts of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, concluding that similarities in Christian and other religious traditions must mean a common origin--one with no room for a historical Jesus.

THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING SON OF MAN belongs in the tradition of David Friedrich Strauss and Rudolf Bultmann, scrutinizing the Gospels concisely and in astonishing detail. Price takes a consistent, thorough-going critical look at the gospel tradition, discarding faith's mandates and delivering good reasons for every skeptical judgment of the Gospels' historical accuracy in depicting Jesus.

A prequel to Price's DECONSTRUCTING JESUS, THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING SON OF MAN explains advanced scholarship on the historical Jesus in terms--and with references to popular culture--that any reader can understand.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #97  
Old 02-18-2014, 05:24 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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I've found Zealot to be a very interesting book. It places Jesus as a man of his times in ways that I've found lacking in popular religious studies books. (I have not read much biblical criticism scholarship.) A link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/140006922X
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  #98  
Old 02-19-2014, 10:49 AM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Heh, red flag: the title "Jesus of Nazareth" is a misnomer. The original Greek calls Jesus a "Nazarene" (Nazirene, Nazirite), which was not indicative of his home town, but a type of religious vow. Same with Mary Magdalene. She wasn't from Magdala. Magdalene might be a translation of the Hebrew word "migdal" (no vowels in Hebrew back then) which means tower (tower of faith?).

Otherwise that books sounds good.

Here's a link to the problem with "Nazareth."

http://www.thenazareneway.com/nazarene_or_nazareth.htm
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37

Last edited by Magdlyn; 02-19-2014 at 01:20 PM.
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  #99  
Old 02-19-2014, 08:18 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Actually the author discusses in 'Zealot' how Jesus was probably not from Nazereth. He was likely from that area but not the town itself, given what little we know about his social status. He also discusses the Essenes who (I believe this is true but could be wrong as I am typing from memory) were around after Jesus, and how some of their predecessors may have had an impact on Jesus.

I will check out the link. Lately I've been more interested in discussions of pagan and early Christian interactions - but that is not relevant to this thread.

Last edited by opalescent; 02-19-2014 at 08:19 PM. Reason: more rambling!
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  #100  
Old 03-14-2014, 07:42 AM
GodisL0ve GodisL0ve is offline
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Default This is what we have been searching for...

Hi, We are Betsy and Jason a Christian-Poly married couple from MI. We have been together for 5 years and are very much in love. We have had a poly relationship with another female. We are interested in meeting other poly people as friends and more. We are specifically interested in meeting other married couples who share our beliefs and are looking to share love and intamacy. I (Betsy) am specifically looking for open comfortable experienced bi wives as well as their sexy faithful husbands. To often we run into swingers who don't understand what we're after. We share a very unique love for eachother and Christ and can't wait to share it. Currently we share a 2 person inclusive marriage; bi female 24 hetero male 33. We are hopeful and open to expanding. We are open to discussing our beliefs in a non hostile manner. We are non denominational. We support LGBTQ and all races and ethnic backgrounds. Thank you for everything you are doing. We look forward to meeting you. God Bless

Last edited by GodisL0ve; 03-14-2014 at 08:03 AM.
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