Is this a fair request of my primary ...

[Wyrdkiss]

Originally Posted by PolyinPractice

may even have to pretend to your wife that the girlfriend doesn't exist. That gets pretty tricky.

Are you willing to do that?

no I'm not, but I could certainly keep it minimal if we are all being honest with one another.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Originally Posted by Wyrdkiss

no I'm not, but I could certainly keep it minimal if we are all being honest with one another.

How would you define minimal? What I think is necessary information and what my husband things is necessary information are two very different things at times (something we're still defining after years of being together and being varying shades of open).

[GalaGirl]

What to say from here, I'm at a loss for words. Fear is the mindkiller, and I feel pressured regardless to be the one to make the decision -- and be it open, mono or break up, it's still feels all on me...

Not necessarily.

Y'all could set the "fence limit" now since it wasn't set before. Keep doing best til X date and at that date it's final call. If NOT all players are at "JOYOUS YES! THRILLED TO BE HERE!" could accept the (no confidence vote), be sad, disband. Move ON to the healing stage. Free from spinning wheels stage.

All call feel good about "well, we gave a good honest shot all the way til.... and we broke up on good terms. That part is good."

Fear of a break up is because one hasn't experienced a good one... well, plan for a good one if it must be. A STELLAR shebang party of one!

Smaller win than (all stay together in joyous yes) but it's a win if you let it be.

Dragging out (lack of purpose/indecision) through (suckage) to (deep resentment land)? Ugh. That's not a small win. That's all kinds of ugh.

Galagirl

[Wyrdkiss]

Not necessarily.

Y'all could set the "fence limit" now since it wasn't set before. Keep doing best til X date and at that date it's final call. ...

[/QUOTE]

Yup, that's somewhat the plan.
we've discussed a lot, I've chilled out and slowed down and we've enjoyed ourselves this week.

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

Dragging out (lack of purpose/indecision) through (suckage) to (deep resentment land)? Ugh. That's not a small win. That's all kinds of ugh.

Indeed it is. We're ready to move beyond the analysis paralysis in some way or form.

Thanks everyone.

[SchrodingersCat]

Disclaimer: I don't do sugar coating.

Originally Posted by Wyrdkiss

My "secondary" (we both dislike that term)

Then don't use it. Give her a nickname on here, and use her real name in real life.

You see, my primary wants to support me, but she and I together do not know the answer to this:

IS MY PRIMARY PARTNER "on board" with us being open if she refuses to write to or meet my secondary (my secondary, F, has reached out and offered to meet her).

Yes. More precisely, if she's otherwise on board with being open, then refusing to interact with your other partner does not negate that.

Is she crippling us unconsciously?

We're not mind readers. Impossible to say. Any claims to the contrary are conjecture and loaded with personal assumptions.

When offered to meet my secondary, She says she, "can't be that adult about it right now." Does that mean she cannot be even in an open relationship?

No. It means she needs time and space to process what she's feeling.

Is it totally unfair of me to request my primary write her and offer some kind of connection, some reassurance of approval and awareness, however minimal?

It's never unfair to request anything. Bear in mind that requests are not demands, and requesting something does not entitle you to receive it. If you make a request and she denies your request, then follow your own advice: pull up your big boy pants and get over it.

Continually pressuring someone to give in to your requests turns them into demands. Making demands is unkind and a great way to ruin a relationship.

She feels pressured by my suggestion that it is her half of the responsibility and commitment for us to truly give this a go.

You're pressuring her so she feels pressured. Shocking.

I'm not hearing any empathy or consideration for your primary's feelings. Clearly she's struggling with this, and rather than being supportive and loving, you're pressuring her and making demands. Keep it up, and it won't just be your secondary you lose.

Whose idea was it to open the relationship? That has bearing on how much "responsibility" she has to make it work. If this was all your idea, then you get more than just half the responsibility in making it work. What's in it for her?

I feel a lack of consideraton and committment from her regarding out lifestyle agreement, and I may lose my secondary because of it.

If this is the only issue, then it sounds like you're blowing it out of proportion. If there are other signs and reasons that trigger these doubts, then focus on those and take it all as a whole.

Does my primary have the right to be herself in this, doing it her own way

Damn right she does. It's called "autonomy" and it's a need that all humans share. We all get to make our own choices. And we most certainly get to be ourselves and do things our own way.

You really need to be told this??

or does she need to put on her big girl pants and step up, reach out, and aknowledge my secondary kindly?

Is your secondary so self-conscious and feeble that she requires other people to acknowledge and accept her in order to feel valued? If so, then that's your secondary's personal self-esteem issue and learning to cope with that is 100% her responsibility.

There's no rule that says everyone has to like everyone. Some couples agree that they'll meet each other partners. Others agree never to see or hear of them. Emphasis on agree, as in two-way mutually decided, free from coercion and manipulation.

It's a question of what works for the people involved. It's unclear whether not meeting your other girlfriend actually "doesn't work" for you and the other girlfriend, or if you guys are just falling into some trap about "the one and only correct way to do poly." There's no such thing.

But ultimately, if your primary refuses to meet the other girlfriend, then short of stalking her and forcing a meeting (which is totally uncool), there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. If that's a problem for you, then you're well within your rights to evaluate whether or not this form of open relationship is suitable for you.

[alibabe_muse]

Originally Posted by PolyinPractice

There's no requirement for her to be involved. But if she is literally unable to meet or contact your girlfriend-- that is a warning sign. This is the kind of situation that ends up with you in love with both and living two different lives...may even have to pretend to your wife that the girlfriend doesn't exist. That gets pretty tricky.

OP, honestly, if your wife never wants to meet her metamour or if she does meet but isn't interested in building a friendship with her, it should not be seen as a warning sign but that you need to quit pressuring her to push her boundaries. I've recently had to tell bassman and wild orchid (my metamour) that I am not ready to be besties with her and that I'm not ready for family activities (unless my boundaries on PDA is respected). Seriously if my husband was told that's a warning sign I'd be a little pissed. That's lack of respect for someone's comfort level. Hub & gf have been together since the end of October. I experience lots of compersion when he's with her & maybe one day I'll be okay with love share BUT I'm not there yet. Its possible I never will be.

The more bassman pressures me or tells me it'd be great if one day all of us can love share, I feel pressure, anxiety and that I'm taking 20 steps backward instead of one baby step forward at a time. Once they stopped pressuring me, guess what? I felt like me again, me who can choose who I want in my intimate circle of family and friends and lovers.

Now if the relationship was broken to begin with that's another story and poly won't solve those problems.

One great piece of advice my poly circle is finally incorporating is "go at the pace of the who is slowest". Just remember that at this time in all this NRE, wife is slowest, need to go at her pace. If she's not ready to meet her metamour, she's not ready & accept she may never want to meet metamours. Its called respecting her and the only red flag/warning sign is recognizing you're being pushy.

[Magdlyn]

Wyrd, I took a look at your old threads. Seems you and gf have been together 5 years and open 3? And yet, this is only how far you've come in making poly work. I dunno if she's really cut out for it. Do you?

[PolyinPractice]

Originally Posted by alibabe_muse

One great piece of advice my poly circle is finally incorporating is "go at the pace of the who is slowest". Just remember that at this time in all this NRE, wife is slowest, need to go at her pace. If she's not ready to meet her metamour, she's not ready & accept she may never want to meet metamours. Its called respecting her and the only red flag/warning sign is recognizing you're being pushy.

While the advice, "go at the pace of the slowest," is a nice and considerate thing to do, it's not always the best. As GalaGirl pointed out, it's not actually being nice to let someone live in denial-- as appears to be the case. Well, it's one of the possibilities in this situation.

I'm all for letting the wife ease herself into comfort, but again, as was pointed out, this has been three years? And the wife still can't even bear the thought of knowing who he is with? This speaks to insecurities on her part that probably need to be addressed. It's not unfair of the "secondary" to want to feel that the wife is accepting of this (I mean, suppose the OP was lying and having an affair?) A one time meeting is not asking her to be a BFF. The wife needs to grow up here, imo. Or they need to be mono. Or find a woman who is okay with DaDt.

Especially after reading London's story. I know what happened to her is not unique, and therefore don't think I'm paranoid in encouraging the OP's girlfriend to get the wife on board. Even if it means pushing boundaries. Sometimes being "pushy" is okay

[bookbug]

Originally Posted by PolyinPractice

While the advice, "go at the pace of the slowest," is a nice and considerate thing to do, it's not always the best. As GalaGirl pointed out, it's not actually being nice to let someone live in denial-- as appears to be the case. Well, it's one of the possibilities in this situation.

I'm all for letting the wife ease herself into comfort, but again, as was pointed out, this has been three years? And the wife still can't even bear the thought of knowing who he is with? This speaks to insecurities on her part that probably need to be addressed. It's not unfair of the "secondary" to want to feel that the wife is accepting of this (I mean, suppose the OP was lying and having an affair?) A one time meeting is not asking her to be a BFF. The wife needs to grow up here, imo. Or they need to be mono. Or find a woman who is okay with DaDt.

Especially after reading London's story. I know what happened to her is not unique, and therefore don't think I'm paranoid in encouraging the OP's girlfriend to get the wife on board. Even if it means pushing boundaries. Sometimes being "pushy" is okay

My 2 cents: there's a lot of middle ground to be had here. First if the wife is truly on board with poly as she has stated, then that should be enough. There is no requirement that she meet her metamour. Why should she? The relationship is between the two of them - not with her.

So why the push? Sounds like Wyrdkiss does not believe she is on board. And if that's the case meeting the metamour - or not - is a red herring. The issue is whether or not she can tolerate him having another love in his life. Can she or can't she?

As for the metamour, I get the insecurity. I've been there. Trouble was, I'd met the wife of my lover, and had seemingly genuine assurances that all was well - until it wasn't, and she went irrevocably 180 degrees the other way after a few months. So to me, meeting between metamours may provide a sense of security - but it can be totally false.

If it is Wyrdkiss's intent that meeting be a test, it's a lousy one. It may push a wife who is trying to adapt too far, too fast. And if she is just feigning being on board, it won't change that. Or as in my case, assurances are made that mean nothing.

[SchrodingersCat]

Originally Posted by alibabe_muse

The more bassman pressures me or tells me it'd be great if one day all of us can love share, I feel pressure, anxiety and that I'm taking 20 steps backward instead of one baby step forward at a time. Once they stopped pressuring me, guess what? I felt like me again, me who can choose who I want in my intimate circle of family and friends and lovers.

This is a good point. If I'm unsure about something in my life, then people pressuring me is going to push me further and further from wanting to do it. I'll feel like I'd be doing it to please them rather than because I want to.