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  #61  
Old 04-08-2010, 07:43 PM
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RP-

I have offered to read out loud, I've suggested getting them on tape.

The thing is (and I've watched this for YEARS) if something is important to YOU as an individual-you find time to fit it in.
If it's not important to you personally-you will FIND a million excuses for not doing it.

I wanted to lose weight. But I didn't want to work at it. I made a MILLION excuses for not working out-for YEARS.

Finally I started forcing myself to do it-and asked GG to help force me too.
Two years after starting that, I am FINALLY at a point where I actually crave it enough to go do it without being dragged kicking and screaming.
TWO YEARS.

But NOW I have a personal interest and goal. I finally reached a point where I personally ENJOY it also.

The guys say there is "never" time. But GG was on the computer this morning and last night. He OFTEN finds time to look at movie trailers online. Often enough that my sister was rolling her eyes yesterday over him "not having time to read".
Both the guys watch movies almost every weekend.

When I first decided I needed to find a way to fix my marriage-I committed to reading for 15 minutes on my lunch break. That was ONLY 15 minutes DURING my lunch break each day-but by the end of a 5 day week that turns into over 1 hour a week of reading.

When i figured out that I was never getting a break from the kids-I committed to taking a bath in the evening-usually 1/2 hour. WHEN I take a bath, I read. ( I don't do it every evening and haven't done it at all in the two weeks prior to this week).
EITHER of the guys could do the same.

Everyone goes to bed betwen 9-10 around here, except GG. If he REALLY wanted to read the book (which he doesn't, and that's why it wasn't even on the book shelf with the books he DOES want to read) he could commit to reading for 15 minutes (which would not put him to sleep) every night at 10, because he has to be up till midnight (he's on call for work til then) anyway.

It's all about priorities (as GG always says).

IF something is important to you-you will bust your ass to find a way to make it happen.
IF something is not important to you-you won't make it happen.
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  #62  
Old 04-08-2010, 08:45 PM
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I guess its not a big enough priority for him then. Maybe reading isn't the priority, but the priority of how to have a better relationship is the worry.

How do you intend to achieve that GG? Maybe you have a plan we don't know of?

It sounds like one is needed at this point. A strategic plan. We just did that around buying a house. Everyone has their role and we wrote it all down. Its a contract essentially. If someone doesn't pull their weight then we all lose. I personally don't want to be responsible for that. Especially as its so easy to just do as I say I am and put positive energy into our relationship when I can. If I can't, I need to have a reason and put it in another way at another time.
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Last edited by redpepper; 04-09-2010 at 02:56 AM.
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  #63  
Old 04-08-2010, 09:00 PM
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A plan!

THAT would be awesome RP.

I think sometimes the guys get bogged down in thinking they have to find the answers the SAME WAY I DO or they "don't count".

But really-I don't give a DAMN how they find the answers!

What I care about is that they DO.

I get frustrated because they ask for help (Like Maca coming on here and asking for help) then people tell them where to find it (like Poly/mono suggesting books specific to the issues at hand) and they blow it off (pick your reason) but continue to complain about the same problem.........................

WHY should I keep trying to help you find an answer if none of my suggestions will you even try?

You know?

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  #64  
Old 04-08-2010, 09:11 PM
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hmmmm...like there are different love languages...there are different methods of learning and introspection. Not everything works for everyone.

I do empathize with where you are coming from but maybe they just haven't been shown a method to learn that they can relate to.

Personally, I am introspective to a fault (yes it can be bad), I learn best from online sources aka real life examples. Reading a book, while I did read them, was good, but only a little effective. The whole self help revolution, for example, baffles me. Heck anything closely resembling traditional education irks me to no end. A good way to make me angry is to tell me there is a test at the end of a chapter

My wife, can't do the online thing, has a hard time relating to real life examples because if it doesn't 100% fit her situation she ignores it. She can and will pick up the book and thats more her method of understanding. She also tends to walk into things blindly and hopes for the best, relying on those around her to keep her propped up and slowly learns. (yes this is dangerous, but it is a quirk I sometimes love and sometimes loath...)

I am definitely not saying you don't have a right to be frustrated, but maybe your guys haven't been shown a method that works for them?...Maybe there should be a thread about different methods to understand and learn about poly relationships...books, movies etc...who knows ...
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  #65  
Old 04-08-2010, 09:44 PM
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Shouldn't they be figuring out their own way methods A? They know enough about themselves to take a look at the way they do things and compare to others.

Like I was saying in my other thread, its my responsibility to do things for myself and be a good guest in others lives in terms of pulling my weight in relationships. I also need to host others in terms of them finding their own path and me talking about it with them, asking questions and letting them go at their pace.

When we talked about buying a house last week we first talked about the common goal. Nerdist and I were very frustrated with each other and when we get that way we first decide if we have the same goal. In this case we did. I can go into what happens if we don't another time, but we have the goals now down on paper and can reference them.

Next was to figure out what was the source of frustration. I like to make sure he keeps his integrity and respect him in these situations as it is so easy to fall into bashing him because "I" think he is wrong. He might be wrong in my eyes, but what gives me the right to be right. He is worth as much as I am. Instead I remain inquistive as he does with me. We suggest ideas to each other bases on history, check to make sure our information is valid still, express how we feel etc. All the while walking hand in hand with one another rather than me leading him down the path I think he should go down. I used to do that, but don't any more because it undermines his right to his own path and frankly is far too much work. I have my self to think about, not everyone else around me. Partner to me means just that, someone who takes care of their own issues and is with me in my quest to deal with mine. I don't become their issue and they don't become mine.

What we came to is that, we are different in our approaches to goals. I drew out a diagram to show the filling of a fish tank. The tank full is the goal achieved. Nerdist fills slowly and takes each step at a time. He doesn't invest emotion in the result until he gets there. I throw buckets of water in and get excited that we are going to have a full tank! Yay! More water! Run back to the tap, fill up again, throw it in...! Yays, look, its fuller! crazier way of doing it but works just as well. I get frustrated that he doesn't get excited and think I have to drag him or have to inspire, he freaks out that I want to do more than he signed up for and tries to slow me down. We decided to rely on the goals we made, trust them, and unless they change, let us be who we are in the process. He has rights to tease me about my process and I have rights to tease him in order to keep our stress levels down by using humour. In order to enjoy it together.

This is hopefully more specific about what I mean about writing goals down and talking about how each of you get to them LR.

In asking him how he is going to solve this problem I am hopefully inspiring him to do so. It is his problem as much as it is all of yours because he is being kept from solving it his way.

What do you have to work with GG? What are your goals for your relationships in your family?

I am really intersted to know and I am sure others are too. You don't have to write them here, but thinking about it is the first step and then voicing how you will achieve them. Then, sticking with it. If you want to be in your family situation then its time to be you AND be a family member.
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  #66  
Old 04-08-2010, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Shouldn't they be figuring out their own way methods A? They know enough about themselves to take a look at the way they do things and compare to others.
.
Absolutely, I didn't mean for the onus to fall on LR

She wants them to learn, they may have different methods, they need to figure it out ...by "shown" I mean anything from finding it themselves, to a friend to...well any resource possible.

btw we seem to have similar methods to filling the fish tank...haha...

My wife and I did an exercise to help our new self discovery (not the fish tank btw)...we both wrote down our goals. This included sexual, relationship, financial etc. We found a few common grounds (this was very similar to the bdsm checklist that lets you compare your kinks with a potential partner). Within those results we both made action plans on our primary goals. Detailing what we would do to get to those results.

At least then I could see what she was doing and hopefully notice her progress. I don't see some of the things she does as moving forward, even though they are. Where she see my progress as leaps and bounds and jumping into things without thinking, even though its quite the opposite.
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  #67  
Old 04-08-2010, 10:51 PM
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There does seem to be a theme of different process minded people coming together. I admire my differences from both my men. I miss stuff my way sometimes.
LR might "want" something, but, again, he has to want it too, other wise there is no value in it. He has to value what she wants too. Make it a common goal. If it isn't then LR has to adjust. She can't make him do anything.

Taking the bag for instance. If I were to think of that in terms of me being GG I would not necessarily understand what value there is in taking things to a consignment store. I'm assuming you take things there LR to make a little extra cash. They may very well only take seasonal things as some places only take seasonal stuff. I am assuming GG didn't know all this or care. Not because he doesn't love you or not value what you want, but because he didn't know how much you value such things.

Maybe taking a moment to look him in the eyes and say, this is important to me and this why, would help him get it. You are unable to achieve what you normally would take for granted LR, that's what this is about I think (again assuming). Explaining to him that it would make you feel like you have taken care of something if he did such and such might instill in him a reason. Otherwise, who cares, its just a bag of stuff and the consignment store will be there when you are able to take it. Really its superficial compared to jeopardising the positive energy in your relationship. At least in my mind anyways.

Another way to look at it is to ask how you might feel if he were to ask you to wash his car when he is sick. Okay, knowing you, you would probably do it, but you might just wonder if it really matters. To him it does, to you it may seem silly and lack value.

I disagree that we should expect others to do things because we value them and they don't. If we value them and they don't then we should do them and leave it alone if they refuse.

It is a whole other thing when someone says they will and then don't. Not okay with me. I would prefer they say they don't value it at this time and refuse.

Usually if I market it in terms of my need to get things done because I am unwell, the value changes and it becomes about helping someone in need rather than the job itself. Some people see things literally, some don't. Maybe make it literal by saying what is behind it. I can't do what I value right now, I want to participate in the family but I need you to help me feel useful. Maybe that would help. That rather than, please take the bag to this place and getting frustrated that it didn't happen. It may sound obvious to you LR but not to GG. I hope this make some sense and you realize I made a lot of assumptions based on my own life experience. Hopefully you and others get something out of that.
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  #68  
Old 04-08-2010, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
All the while walking hand in hand with one another rather than me leading him down the path I think he should go down. I used to do that, but don't any more because it undermines his right to his own path and frankly is far too much work. I have my self to think about, not everyone else around me. Partner to me means just that, someone who takes care of their own issues and is with me in my quest to deal with mine. I don't become their issue and they don't become mine.
I really think this is KEY to what the issue is at it's heart.

It's been a couple years in the making, but I figured out that I just could not handle all of the responsibility I was taking on.
I started by making myself walk daily, because my weight bothered me, but I'd been making excuses of not being able to work out because of all the other crap I needed to do/get done.
I then decided I was dropping the babysitting schedule I had (it wasn't a job I was paid for). Now I take these extra kids I love so much when it's CONVENIENT FOR ME. Instead of taking them every single day their parents need to go to work.
Then I changed some of how I deal with things at home with chores, kids, extra curricular for the kids etc.
Then I "came out" to Maca.

Somewhere in there I started seriously, diligently doing some soul searching and never stopped.

More recently I decided that I need to stop "mothering" GG. So I made a rule for myself that if he doesn't ASK I don't answer. I was NOTORIOUS for seeing him having an issue, and making myself sick at night thinking of the best solution for him based on who he is and what he wanted and needed.
While I commend myself for not using what would be more convenient or better for ME in making those decisions and then sharing them with him, I was wasting a LOT of time and energy. Because (at least in theory) he should be more able to identify what it is he needs to do to solve his issues in the best way for him-becuase he IS HIMSELF.

So I stopped.No I wasn't a bitch about it-I told him what I was doing AND WHY. But interestingly enough-even though I've told him that I'm not going to answer the "unasked question". He's primarily not asking. He is frustrated, hurt, angry, depressed, hopeless, moody, whiny to use his word. He makes statements, but asks few if any questions (praise to him he did write a question in our diary last night-and I answered it).

I do not have time to guide other people in life. I don't mind answering the questions, giving suggestions....

I just feel that if I give you a suggestion-and you come back with the same complaint having not TRIED the suggestion then you are wasting MY time-and my time is becoming expensive.

A couple years ago a friend told me something about time.
I can't recall the exact something-but the point has remained with me.
Our time costs us. So we need to value it.
What is our time WORTH.
A Dr. may value his time (based on what we pay them) $100-600 for a 15 minute slot. That works out to just over $4 a minute to $40 a minute...

I don't know that I value my time so high, but I damn sure do value it more than FREE. So I need to decide if the things I'm spending my time on are "reimbursing me" to a degree worthy of spending my time on them.

More and more things I find are NOT.

Helping people is.

BUT helping someone implies that they themselves are doing something to help themselves.

Doing FOR someone who is not helping themselves is no longer worth my time to me.
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  #69  
Old 04-08-2010, 11:17 PM
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Doing FOR someone who is not helping themselves is no longer worth my time to me.
That deserves a celebration smiley

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  #70  
Old 04-08-2010, 11:24 PM
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RP I hope he will write out his goals here. I'm interested in reading the answers.

I have asked those questions.
ACTUALLY that's part of the issue right now. He's tweaked because I ask the question-take the answer and then tailor my decisions about what I am doing around those answers.

BUT those answers aren't always very well thought out (which I'm well aware of) and then they tend to have consequences that he didn't want (which I also knew would happen as I know what he doesn't want quite well and I did think it through).

What I'm NOT doing-is tailoring my actions to give him what he wants. Because THAT requires me to THINK IT ALL UP FOR HIM-and I'm tired. I need a partner, not another child.

He tells me this is his family.
He tells me this family (and me) are his priority.
He tells me that he would die for me (or the kids).
He tells me that he loves me.
He tells me that he would do anything I needed.

But what does that work out to meaning in day to day life?

Don't get me wrong-RP-he does do things every day-and I SEE THEM. But I am interested in knowing what it is HE wants to see himself doing in day to day life. What is it he see's as the "perfect picture" for his life, in work, in relationships, as a parent, as a friend, as a lover, etc.

I'm reading "The Seven Levels Of Intimacy" by Matthew Kelly right now. (FYI-I didn't ask GG to read it). It talks about how the POINT of our lives is to become the best we can be and that the point of our relationships are to help each other with becoming the best we can each be in our lives.

I'm really curious what it is that GG thinks is "the best he can be" in his life and how he thinks that he can accomplish that-and how I can help.

I know what I think is the best I can be, and I know what the steps are that I need to take to get there (one MAJOR one was getting my health issues dealt with which is why so many surgeries all at one time). I know how he can help me. But I don't feel like I can even bring that up-because at this point I don't think he's even considered it in terms of himself and his life.

My friend (same friend) said to me today,
"What would you do if you knew you could not ever fail?"

There is a question I'd like to hear his answer to also.
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