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  #21  
Old 02-12-2014, 02:57 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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Originally Posted by seakinganswers View Post
Wow, lots of interesting conversation on the topic!

So I'm assuming if you are married and decide to become poly together then there would have to be certain rules put in place depending on people's comfort level. I'm not saying you try to quantify loving one person more or less than another but certainly you are more committed to your spouse and mother of your children. I may love the hell out of one girl, but if something about it made my wife feel uncomfortable and it was messing up my relationship with my wife then we may have to part ways for the sake of my commitment to someone else I also love.

Or am I misunderstanding how it works? (As if it has to work the same for everyone)
No there was no need for rules. Why because I have thus little thing called respect for my husband and self control. My husband knows I will do the right thing depending on the situation.

As for uncomfortable situations guess what life is full of them. You deal with your own issues and insecurities and do not project them onto others. I would never toy with another persons emotions based upon my husbands insecurities. I definitely would not end another relationship over them. I avoid those who would have such a rule like the plague.
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  #22  
Old 02-12-2014, 03:15 PM
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So I'm assuming if you are married and decide to become poly together then there would have to be certain rules put in place depending on people's comfort level.
Not necessarily. Some people have rules, some do not. Some people prefer to establish their own personal boundaries about what they will or will not accept in relationships, rather than making up rules for their partners to follow or else. This way, they are governing themselves, not policing someone else.

Most polyfolk do have boundaries regarding safer sex and STI prevention, at whatever level they feel they can be comfortable with.

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Originally Posted by seakinganswers View Post
. . . certainly you are more committed to your spouse and mother of your children.
What is "more committed?" One is either committed or not. We all have various commitments in our lives - to our life partners (if we have any), to our employers, our landlords, our creditors, groups we belong to, relatives who depend on us, etc. Do we dole out different "amounts" of commitment, depending on their place in our lives? Nobody says, "Oh, my Tuesday night pool game only gets 20% commitment, while visiting Grandma in the nursing home gets 60% commitment, and my boss gets 90% commitment."

It's not about how much you are committed, but what you are committing to.

In western society, we are so used to this strange idea that when we meet someone and start dating, it's only successful if we are moving toward the goal of getting a commitment from them to get "serious" about the relationship and eventually get married, live together, have a family, and all that storybook shit. But that's not the only way to have relationships, not the only way to be committed or dedicated to having a another person in one's life.

When you have multiple relationships and have a commitment to be a life partner and parent with someone, it is absolutely possible to also commit to be a life partner and parent with another person -- although legally you can't marry a second person. But it is also possible that a second partner does not want to build that kind of nuclear arrangement, though they still want a commitment. So, you commit to honesty, respect, treating them well, being there for them when they need it, nurturing the relationship for the long-term, etc., but just not to build a home and family with them. A commitment to one person does not have to be considered more important than the commitment to someone else, even if to the outside world it looks like "less" of a committed relationship for whatever reasons.

Of course, raising children is a huge commitment, and of great importance, but that does not automatically mean that other people don't deserve commitments to them. But it may mean that what you can commit to changes.

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Originally Posted by seakinganswers View Post
I may love the hell out of one girl, but if something about it made my wife feel uncomfortable and it was messing up my relationship with my wife then we may have to part ways for the sake of my commitment to someone else I also love.
What you're talking about here is known as "couple privilege" which always places one dyad as more important than another. You can do a search for that term here and will find some lengthy and eye-opening discussions on it. If someone is uncomfortable (after giving consent to a poly arrangement, of course), the best thing to do is some inner personal soul-searching to find out why they are uncomfortable and remedy those insecurities internally or through therapy or whatever support system they have - not by limiting what their partner does or does not do with someone else.

Some couples have veto arrangements, whereby they allow their "primary" partner to veto their involvement with someone they are uncomfortable with. This is also hotly debated, you can do a search for that as well. I would never get involved with anyone whose partner has veto power.

Personally, I feel that if someone would be willing to end a relationship with one lover solely because another lover or partner invokes a veto or is just uncomfortable with it for some reason, then neither one of them is ready for polyamory. Why would anyone engage with that person knowing they would be dropped like a hot potato at their metamour's whim? Sure, there are people out there who only want casual sex-only flings and wouldn't care if they were just treated as a "little bit on the side," but polyamory is about developing and nurturing multiple loving relationships. Not to exclude flings and casual sex partners, because many polyfolk do have casual sex, but if it was all about that, it would be swinging or open relationships, not polyamory. And if you love someone you don't discard them at the behest of another.

Relationships should only be managed by the people in them. If a person has a partner who is involved with someone else, why should they get a say about how their partner conducts his or her other relationships? That not only negates the autonomy of their partner's other partner, it is also dismissive of the value of that relationship in their partner's life. Utterly disrespectful.
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Last edited by nycindie; 02-13-2014 at 01:34 AM.
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  #23  
Old 02-12-2014, 03:18 PM
PolyinPractice PolyinPractice is offline
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Originally Posted by seakinganswers View Post
Wow, lots of interesting conversation on the topic!

So I'm assuming if you are married and decide to become poly together then there would have to be certain rules put in place depending on people's comfort level. I'm not saying you try to quantify loving one person more or less than another but certainly you are more committed to your spouse and mother of your children. I may love the hell out of one girl, but if something about it made my wife feel uncomfortable and it was messing up my relationship with my wife then we may have to part ways for the sake of my commitment to someone else I also love.

Or am I misunderstanding how it works? (As if it has to work the same for everyone)
No, you are getting exactly the wrong message out of this. Just because your wife is uncomfortable does not mean you can dispose, or put on hold, a new person. Well, you could, but you don't know that person will still be there when you and she are "ready."

Treating new people as lesser is not cool. If you want to be poly, grow up and let individuals form unique relationships, without controls or limits.
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  #24  
Old 02-13-2014, 01:26 AM
seakinganswers seakinganswers is offline
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No, you are getting exactly the wrong message out of this. Just because your wife is uncomfortable does not mean you can dispose, or put on hold, a new person. Well, you could, but you don't know that person will still be there when you and she are "ready."

Treating new people as lesser is not cool. If you want to be poly, grow up and let individuals form unique relationships, without controls or limits.
I guess I fail to see how setting boundaries in a relationship is treating them as lessor? All of us have boundaries in every relationship whether we are poly or mono. So if I say to a potential new lover that I want to find someone to love and cherish, but my lifelong commitment will always be to my wife and we are probably never going to be interested in polygamy or a triad, and my wife never wants to meet you or for you to meet my children, then I don't see that as an insult. It's just being honest up front and you can either choose to be in that kind of relationship or not.

It's not really much different from a guy saying I never want to get married or have kids. And the girl can either accept that or move on.

More than likely the type of woman who would accept this situation would be someone who also was married and had no desire to meet my wife.

I'm only using this as an extreme example. And I'm just saying that as long as everybody is honest about boundaries up front then I don't think someone is a bad person, immature, or unreasonable. It may not be something you would personally agree to. But every relationship has boundaries.

I do see your point though about whether its you setting boundaries for a potential partner or the person you are already with. Because that does seem to be a trust thing. It's like saying, "I don't trust you enough to set your own boundaries that are reasonable, so let me set them for you." On the flip side of that coin I'm a pretty boundary less person so it would scare the crap out of my wife to just let me go free. So I could see where we might have a discussion about whether someone at work was too risky because it threatened our livelihood and where I wouldn't set that boundary for myself, I choose to set the boundary in order to keep my wife from becoming a nervous wreck.
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  #25  
Old 02-13-2014, 02:11 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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"More Committed".

I am not more committed, I may have more commitments.
Instead of bulking them all under "to my husband" lets give them each their own specifications. (helps keep it clear what is or isn't couple privilege)

1) relationship to husband (Maca).
2) commitment to joint child responsibility.
3) Commitment to joint financial obligations (mortgage, vehicle loans etc)
4) Commitment to extended family members.
5) commitment to pets.

I share all of those with Maca, but I am INDIVIDUALLY committed to them. Meaning, that while we have both made a commitment to the same things (or people), we each have that commitment EVEN IF WE WERE TO DIVORCE.

Therefore-they aren't pertinent to our relationship commitment itself.

Likewise with boyfriend (GG) I have commitments.

1) relationship to boyfriend (GG)
2) commitment to joint child responsibilities
3) Commitment to joint financial obligations (credit card)
4) commitment to extended family members.
5) commitment to pets. (albeit Scrappy had to be put down, so this ended over the holidays)

We may have DIFFERENT commitments that are shared, even different number of shared commitments. But those aren't really relevant to the commitment to the RELATIONSHIP with each partner.

(and I don't see them as primary secondary either).

Just to mix things up:

20 years with bf
15 years with husband
1 child pre-either of them
1 child with husband
1 child with bf

so even the length of relationship and the children together can't be placed in one relationship or the other in our case.
But even if they were (and at one time I did have no children with GG)-the reality is that the father of my child(ren) is a commitment to co-parent, which is SEPARATE from the commitment as a wife.
Easily noted when realizing that I am not married or dating the father of my oldest child. We DO still have a commitment to co-parent. We also have a commitment to co-grandparent our grandsons. We do NOT have a dating relationship of any kind. But-the fact that our commitment to co-parent has extended 23 years, doesn't make it PRIMARY over my other commitments.....
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  #26  
Old 02-13-2014, 03:34 AM
PolyinPractice PolyinPractice is offline
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Originally Posted by seakinganswers View Post
I guess I fail to see how setting boundaries in a relationship is treating them as lessor? All of us have boundaries in every relationship whether we are poly or mono. So if I say to a potential new lover that I want to find someone to love and cherish, but my lifelong commitment will always be to my wife and we are probably never going to be interested in polygamy or a triad, and my wife never wants to meet you or for you to meet my children, then I don't see that as an insult. It's just being honest up front and you can either choose to be in that kind of relationship or not.

It's not really much different from a guy saying I never want to get married or have kids. And the girl can either accept that or move on.

More than likely the type of woman who would accept this situation would be someone who also was married and had no desire to meet my wife.

I'm only using this as an extreme example. And I'm just saying that as long as everybody is honest about boundaries up front then I don't think someone is a bad person, immature, or unreasonable. It may not be something you would personally agree to. But every relationship has boundaries.

I do see your point though about whether its you setting boundaries for a potential partner or the person you are already with. Because that does seem to be a trust thing. It's like saying, "I don't trust you enough to set your own boundaries that are reasonable, so let me set them for you." On the flip side of that coin I'm a pretty boundary less person so it would scare the crap out of my wife to just let me go free. So I could see where we might have a discussion about whether someone at work was too risky because it threatened our livelihood and where I wouldn't set that boundary for myself, I choose to set the boundary in order to keep my wife from becoming a nervous wreck.
What you want is fine. But you're asking your questions in a poly forum. In poly, this behavior is unacceptable (just as your lifestyle would be unacceptable to someone who was mono). Someone who identifies as poly would probably be looking for more than you could give. What you need is someone who already has a partner (or doesn't want one at the moment), is open, and is looking for some fun on the side. That's what you're offering. Telling them that the relationship between you and them is always going to mean less than your relationship with your wife. But they might not consider you that important either, and you can both use each other as you like. That's not a criticism; though I personally find that kind of relationship unfulfilling.

I''l warn you, though, that feelings cannot be controlled. What do you do if you "accidentally" fall in love with the woman? Toss her aside because your wife might be a "nervous wreck"?

Last edited by PolyinPractice; 02-13-2014 at 03:36 AM.
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  #27  
Old 02-13-2014, 03:47 AM
bofish bofish is offline
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Default But kids...

I do agree with Ny in terms of commitment and emotion. When my husband stated dating his girlfriend, I told her that I didn't believe in any hierarchy of affection. I, in fact, have put my friendships on equal terms with my feelings and responsibilities toward loving my husband.

However, we ran into a problem. That problem is simply regarding the "work" that it takes to run a family. My husband works most nights, we have a child, and numerous pets and other household concerns. His girlfriend wants to have her relationship entirely separate from me and his family. As a consequence, I've had to work on putting my needs for help in the household above her needs (for him to spend the night once a week, when he is already gone 3 nights a week and all Sunday). But, again, this is just practical. If we didn't have a child or if she didn't want their relationship entirely segregated from us, it would definitely be a different story.
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  #28  
Old 02-13-2014, 03:55 AM
PolyinPractice PolyinPractice is offline
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His girlfriend wants to have her relationship entirely separate from me and his family.
See, I relate to this. It's her choice to want something totally separate; there are consequences to that. My partner has two of us. She wants a relationship completely separate from me (and from his poly life). She also wants her poly life separate from him. As a result, she gets less time with him than I do. But if I insisted that my time with him be isolated from her and his family, I'D be the one losing out on time.

You have to accommodate all parts of a person's life, kids, pets, significant others, work, hobbies, friends.... If you don't want contact with one or more of those, you get less time. Simple as that
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  #29  
Old 02-13-2014, 04:12 AM
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Inyourendo Inyourendo is offline
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I do agree with Ny in terms of commitment and emotion. When my husband stated dating his girlfriend, I told her that I didn't believe in any hierarchy of affection. I, in fact, have put my friendships on equal terms with my feelings and responsibilities toward loving my husband.

However, we ran into a problem. That problem is simply regarding the "work" that it takes to run a family. My husband works most nights, we have a child, and numerous pets and other household concerns. His girlfriend wants to have her relationship entirely separate from me and his family. As a consequence, I've had to work on putting my needs for help in the household above her needs (for him to spend the night once a week, when he is already gone 3 nights a week and all Sunday). But, again, this is just practical. If we didn't have a child or if she didn't want their relationship entirely segregated from us, it would definitely be a different story.
So you get 4 overnights and she gets none? This is precisely why I would never enter into a relationship with someone with a live in partner.
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  #30  
Old 02-13-2014, 04:28 AM
PolyinPractice PolyinPractice is offline
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So you get 4 overnights and she gets none? This is precisely why I would never enter into a relationship with someone with a live in partner.
But that's just his schedule. I happen to get NO overnights with my partner, but I don't need/want that (he usually comes and puts me to sleep). I still probably get more time (and definitely more quality time!) than his live-in partner does.
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