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Old 02-12-2014, 01:21 AM
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Wyrdkiss Wyrdkiss is offline
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Default Is this a fair request of my primary ...

This is a poly-theory question on approach and responsibilties of all individuals involved.

My primary partner (F) is struggling to get past her fears I will fall in love with someone else [also F] and I (Male) wiIll leave the primary relationship. that is her base fear.


As a result, she doesn't feel she can handle talking to my play partner / secondary at this time.
She knows we care for one another, but it is new (three weeks in).

My "secondary" (we both dislike that term) is getting uncomfortable, and may bail due to our new to this and shaky, odd, possibly determinental situation.

You see, my primary wants to support me, but she and I together do not know the answer to this:

IS MY PRIMARY PARTNER "on board" with us being open if she refuses to write to or meet my secondary (my secondary, F, has reached out and offered to meet her).

Is she crippling us unconsciously? When offered to meet my secondary, She says she, "can't be that adult about it right now." Does that mean she cannot be even in an open relationship?
Is it totally unfair of me to request my primary write her and offer some kind of connection, some reassurance of approval and awareness, however minimal?

She feels pressured by my suggestion that it is her half of the responsibility and commitment for us to truly give this a go. I feel a lack of consideraton and committment from her regarding out lifestyle agreement, and I may lose my secondary because of it.

Does my primary have the right to be herself in this, doing it her own way, or does she need to put on her big girl pants and step up, reach out, and aknowledge my secondary kindly?

Thoughts? who can relate to either side?

Complex question, thanks for looking

Last edited by Wyrdkiss; 02-12-2014 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:16 AM
Devirajni Devirajni is offline
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No. She has the right to decide when she is comfortable meeting other members of your polyship. She may need more time, more reassurance from you, more working on her own issues - but that is HER stuff. You can't force her. So even though the NRE is bursting off the screen in your post, hold your horses! Also, anyone who is already claiming "secondary" status three weeks in is a fast mover; maybe everyone should slow down a bit. If she likes you, she will wait until your existing partner is more comfortable before demanding increasing levels of connectedness and intimacy. If she wants to move on before you can provide that, then it doesn't sound like she is into YOU, she is into the idea of a relationship and it doesn't matter who it is with. Just my two cents. Good luck!
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:32 AM
PolyinPractice PolyinPractice is offline
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I partially agree with Dev, in that it is your partner's choice how fast to move with your new partner. She is NOT in a relationship with her; you are. She doesn't ever have to meet her. You have to trust her choices.

There is the risk that if she chooses to uninvolve herself from a part of your life, that she might find herself "out of the loop," when it comes to major parts of your life, feeling as if she's excluded- BUT THAT WAS HER CHOICE. And she may be totally okay with not knowing that half of your life.

The red flag, for me, is that you say the reason for this is not a lack of interest, but because she is "struggling to get past her fears I will fall in love with someone else." This speaks to a "don't ask, don't tell," relationship, and usually indicates major issues with the relationship. I can totally understand your new girlfriend being wary of your partner's insecurities with poly as a whole.

I have gotten myself in a DaDt relationship, and, fair or not, I don't think I would ever put myself in a situation where I couldn't meet both partners up front. Burned too badly before, and can't handle the ensuing drama that could result and me already in love with the man/woman.
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:03 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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There's no rule that metamours have to meet.
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:35 AM
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If I Don't want to meet someone I won't. The more my partner tried to coerce me the more in would refuse and get pissed.

Its not any of my responsibility to help my partner with his other relationships. If he gets dumped because I refuse to meet someone he's seeing thats not on me.

IMO OP, you are 100% in the wrong here.
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:55 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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What pops out to me seems to be that she might have agreed to participate in a polyship she is not on board with. To me "not sure" is less than "joyous yes." So it counts as "no" if it is time to make the final call. Cannot be on the fence forever.

If someone does not really want to be here any other question after that becomes moot. You can certainly ask things of her. Like she could ask things of you. But if she doesn't want to be here... Why be here asking stuff about how you want to be here together?

If she wanted to try it on to help her decide... Try it on for how long before making the final call so people can get off the fence and moved forward? That does not sound like it was established.

I think you both could revisit that fundamental before coming to address additional agreements on how metamours fit or do not fit in your lives and how much, if many interaction there will be.

Was it a case of avoidy gone wrong?

First her not wanting to experience break up feelings so went went along with the poly shipping to avoid that.

And now she has a polyship shape she does not want. But cannot admit that because then she has to own that she was less than honest about wanting to be here. Gotta avoid that.

She still does not not to break up with you and experience break up feelings. Still avoiding that.

But she does not want you to break up with her for her less than honest behavior because then she experiences break up feelings. Gotta avoid that.

So she continues to just do nothing while going against her own grain in hopes the the other one goes away by magic? Then she is free of the polyship shape she does not want. You deal with any break up feelings, not her. And she does not have to reveal or own she was less than honest at the start?

Is that what this is? You could ask her if that is the logic here.

I could be totally wrong, but just another angle to consider. It is not kind to rush her if it is about needing time.

But it is also not kind to let her keep on this way either if that is what you have on your hands... Not wanting to even be here but not wanting to be the guy to pull the plug either stuff.

That is no foundation for a healthy polyship if one of the players is loathe to be there.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 02-12-2014 at 06:10 AM.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:37 AM
london london is offline
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Just read back your OP and listen to yourself. You need to put on your grown up underwear and stop being so insensitive and demanding.,
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:47 PM
PolyinPractice PolyinPractice is offline
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There are two separate issues.

1) Does your primary have to meet your other dating partners?
2) Does your primary have to show comfort with poly?

There's no requirement for her to be involved. But if she is literally unable to meet or contact your girlfriend-- that is a warning sign. This is the kind of situation that ends up with you in love with both and living two different lives...may even have to pretend to your wife that the girlfriend doesn't exist. That gets pretty tricky.

Are you willing to do that?
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  #9  
Old 02-13-2014, 02:56 PM
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Wyrdkiss Wyrdkiss is offline
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Thank you, everyone, for the time you've offered us thus far.

A few responses first

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devirajni View Post
...Also, anyone who is already claiming "secondary" status three weeks in is a fast mover; maybe everyone should slow down a bit. If she likes you, she will wait until your existing partner is more comfortable before demanding increasing levels of connectedness and intimacy. If she wants to move on before you can provide that, then it doesn't sound like she is into YOU, she is into the idea of a relationship and it doesn't matter who it is with. Just my two cents. Good luck!

I definitely appreciate you reminding me that a new play partner NRE does not justify any pressure on her part for my primary to act in a way she is uncomfortable, or for me to become some sort of dysfunctional liaison. Good points, and taken to heart.

Note Devirajni: "secondary" was used for ease of context, not literally when posted. I must learn, however, that those words should be used accurately here to gain the most accurate feedback possible -- and not confuse or annoy the rest of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
Just read back your OP and listen to yourself. You need to put on your grown up underwear and stop being so insensitive and demanding.,
You are absolutely right London. I've apologize to my partner for the pressure I created be even asking the question of her, by even raising the issue at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inyourendo View Post

IMO OP, you are 100% in the wrong here.
Thank you for the feedback as well Inyourendo. Sometimes we just need to read it from someone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolyinPractice View Post
I partially agree with Dev, in that it is your partner's choice how fast to move with your new partner. She is NOT in a relationship with her; you are. She doesn't ever have to meet her. You have to trust her choices.

There is the risk that if she chooses to uninvolve herself from a part of your life, that she might find herself "out of the loop," when it comes to major parts of your life, feeling as if she's excluded- BUT THAT WAS HER CHOICE. And she may be totally okay with not knowing that half of your life.

The red flag, for me, is that you say the reason for this is not a lack of interest, but because she is "struggling to get past her fears I will fall in love with someone else." This speaks to a "don't ask, don't tell," relationship, and usually indicates major issues with the relationship. I can totally understand your new girlfriend being wary of your partner's insecurities with poly as a whole.
Yes PolyinPractice -- it's true we have our agreements down, but what is truly comfortable with her, TRULY desired in the context of our arrangement we haven't faced. I know her discomforts, but not my partner’s real interest in an open lifestyle, if she has any. She can articulate them logically, but there is a definitive disconnect in application.
We are not necessarily striving to be poly at all, we are striving to be prepared and accepting of what life offers us.
I tend to care about people I am explorative with for the most part.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
What pops out to me seems to be that she might have agreed to participate in a polyship she is not on board with. To me "not sure" is less than "joyous yes." So it counts as "no" if it is time to make the final call. Cannot be on the fence forever.

.....

That is no foundation for a healthy polyship if one of the players is loathe to be there.

Galagirl
Your ENTIRE post was spot on Gala, very perceptive. These issues are unfortunately quite complex, but what it boils down to is regardless if we try open or if we "go" monogamous, it is prompted and fettered out of her fear either way.

She probably doesn't want anything to do with flexibility. Not truly, deeply inside.
Yes she fears I will leave her if we close up the relationship and other areas don't rectify themselves. We have some different sexual and social interests, energy, comfort, modes of expression and lifestyles at this point. that is why I thought being open would be a relief for both of us.

So yes, she feels quite stuck.

And so do I.

We have many years together, and love our life aside from this (considerable) disparity.

So with that said, it is fascinating that this question of logistics and protocol took us right back to the start, thanks to the veterans on this site and their honest feedback.

What to say from here, I'm at a loss for words. Fear is the mindkiller, and I feel pressured regardless to be the one to make the decision -- and be it open, mono or break up, it's still feels all on me...

There are two west coast workshops approaching -- one on doing Poly well, the other on how to handle jealousy and insecurity even before attempting to open, or for those who have and struggled.

Perhaps attending both of those, then sorting the dominoes where they fall is our best strategy at this point.

In addition to me becoming a better listener -- and actually doing something with what I'm hearing -- I am going to encourage my partner to jump on this site and ask her own questions, explore her own topics, and perhaps that will help us take a direction together, any direction, with less fear.

Last edited by Wyrdkiss; 02-13-2014 at 03:00 PM.
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  #10  
Old 02-14-2014, 12:45 AM
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Wyrdkiss Wyrdkiss is offline
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p.s.

I've unintentionally derailed this thread from a theoretical question to personal relationship extrapolation in this subforum.

Mods please move if necessary, if not we can get back on to the topic at hand -- the necessity of communication in general between Primary partner's ----> OSO's, etc.
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