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  #451  
Old 01-20-2014, 05:02 PM
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Mya Mya is offline
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Originally Posted by rory View Post
This is a good goal, whenever dealing with difficult emotions. However, I think it won't happen at once. These kind of intermediary steps are probably vital, where you let yourself feel the ugly without beating yourself up about it.

I think it's definitely good that you're processing these emotions even though nothing is happening between me and Hank. I really admire and value your determination to face it and grow, that is awesome about you.

And sure, there's also the selfish reasons why it's good, in case this kind of situation does some day actually come up concretely. However, I think there might be benefits to the fact that since nothing's going on now (either between Hank and I or between any other people this would be applicable to), you have the space to think about this without any additional pressure/complications that might be there otherwise, where you might feel like you need to get over it really quickly and panic and all that, which might not actually be very helpful for processing it all. And also, it's probably easier for your partners to support you with this, too, when it's not relating to an actual situation. At least I know it is for me, since I'm not fighting my own triggers (relating to feeling like I have to defend my personal freedom/autonomy). So, I'll try to be there for you better, too, now that I'm getting the picture of how difficult this is for you (not that I haven't believed you before, but it helps for me to understand to read such honest, uncensored text about your feelings).

*hugs*
Thank you. <3
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  #452  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:35 PM
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fuchka fuchka is offline
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Mya - Some similarities between this and my recent experiences. I totally understand why you'd feel driven to processing this boundary now. It's emotionally "come up" for you, even though it's not reality. Seems like you'd be bothered by it, if you didn't feel and think it through right now.

I guess one benefit of the lack of urgency (cos it's not happening right now) is you can take it slower. You don't have to figure it all out at once. Some people would have a tendency to put it off, until they "had to" processes it. You don't seem like one of those people. So, yes, remember you do have breathing space.

This is big stuff. I've been the partner on the other side of something like this (i.e. rory's position) and I wish we'd both spent more time understanding each other, especially me understanding the shape of the boundary he was feeling, as in, what exactly was triggering.

rory - (NB: Forgive my tone here. I'm writing quickly before I have to head to work. I don't mean to imply that you don't know this already; I can tell that you are sensitive about it!) This is a boundary that Mya does not want to have, on her partners. She clearly wants to put serious working into making her emotions conform to her ideals - but this isn't simple! You can't just make your emotions do things, through a sheer force of will. Even teasing out where your fears are coming from, tracing the roots of the emotion, doesn't necessarily help ease the physical panic of an idea.

And - obviously - trying to rush "being okay" with something can be self-defeating. Yup, she's processing... and the hope is that things will ease eventually. But what if the boundary cannot shift?

For me, if I felt a partner has sincerely tried, and is trying (within reason), to work on a boundary that neither of us intellectually want, that means a lot. To me, it feels like the difference between a boundary which is an uncritical projection of fear, almost a lazy thing, and a boundary (however temporary or permanent!) that is more like a mental health issue.

I know it's not possible to assure a partner that you will be with them, no matter what. But, as well as supporting Mya emotionally while she's processing this stuff, you could also think about the ways you'd be willing to go slower, or even of some interim or potentially permanent boundaries you'd be able to accept, in consideration of the way Mya says she is triggered by some of this. Be careful here... If you do agree on boundaries, these are likely to be less flexible than other boundaries around things less emotionally volatile.
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  #453  
Old 01-28-2014, 11:16 AM
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Mya Mya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuchka View Post
Mya - Some similarities between this and my recent experiences. I totally understand why you'd feel driven to processing this boundary now. It's emotionally "come up" for you, even though it's not reality. Seems like you'd be bothered by it, if you didn't feel and think it through right now.

I guess one benefit of the lack of urgency (cos it's not happening right now) is you can take it slower. You don't have to figure it all out at once. Some people would have a tendency to put it off, until they "had to" processes it. You don't seem like one of those people. So, yes, remember you do have breathing space.
Thanks a lot for your comment, fuchka. Yes, I'm glad I have time and breathing space to deal with this now.

Actually, I already feel somewhat better about it. It felt really important that both rory and Hank seemed to understand the gravity of my feelings. That made it so much easier to start dealing with it. They've been full of empathy even though my feelings are in a way quite unfair. That is a good place to start working on them: feeling understood and not pressured.

During processing this I realised that I have a problem with being alone. That's evident even looking at the list of reasons I posted earlier. I need to be better at spending time alone. So I'm going for a weekend trip alone in a couple of weeks. I've never done that before. I need to learn how to be comfortable being alone with my thoughts. I also need to get back to meditation. I did it for a long time, but then I stopped doing it for some reason. Now the results are showing. I felt way better within myself back when I was actively meditating.

So, self-improvement is again the way to go. Understanding and compassionate partners help a lot though.
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  #454  
Old 01-31-2014, 11:58 AM
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Okay, just after that last issue this post might seem a bit contradictory, and I guess it is a little bit. But feelings are not always logical.

So there is this guy I've mentioned briefly here, the one I had sex a while back and said I wouldn't mind doing that again. I'll give him a name: Noah. The back story is that Hank and Noah go way back, they've known each other for years and they've had and continue to have some sexual feelings towards each other. At every party (for over a year) where I've been with them, they've made out at some point. And recently me and Noah have also started doing that, kissing every time we see each other I mean. Yesterday me and Hank had Noah over for dinner. It was really nice, we had wine and a candle and everything. The three of us cuddled and kissed, it was really nice. He didn't stay over because it was a Thursday night and we had to get up early for work, but we're all going to the same party tonight, so Noah said that we should take advantage of the early hours of the party.

I really like the idea of that and am looking forward to the party. But - how does this relate to the thing I just said that I don't want a triad? Well, this thing isn't romantic per say, it's more friendly and sexual I think. Although who knows what goes on in every individual's head. But that's how I see it, we all like each other and find each other attractive, but I don't see this going much further than the occasional threesome and/or kissing and cuddling. As it is, I find it very enjoyable. Also, the fear of losing both of my partners that I already love is not present in this situation. Actually this whole thing is a good mental exercise for me even though it's not the same kind of situation, but there are some similarities.

I can see some things that wouldn't bother me about rory and Hank being together because they're fine in this me-Hank-Noah dynamic as well. I'm sure I'd enjoy the times we'd spend together all three of us, all talking and cuddling together. I think I'd enjoy also having threesomes sometimes.

So what has happened so far is that I've pretty much worked through these things:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mya View Post
- I'm already the one wanting company more than them. If they started dating, I'd be left alone more than I do now. Now if they're seeing someone else outside the three of us, most of the time I can still hang out with the other one.
The cure for that is to spend more time alone and learn to enjoy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mya View Post
- I'm already sometimes struggling with some things with Hank, like time. If he would not give more time to me, but instead was giving it to rory, I fear I'd start resenting both of them for it.
Now that Hank started working normal hours instead of the intense course hours, I have more time with him and I'm much happier with that now. So I can't say I'm struggling with time with him anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mya View Post
- I value one-on-one time, I don't want us to hang out as a group all the time. I mean I enjoy that as well, but one-on-one is more important. I fear that if they were also in a relationship with each other, they would want to be together all three of us when they used to spend time with just me.
The more I've talked to both of them, the more I realise this isn't true. They do want one-on-one time with me, no matter what happens. We all value that, so why would this change if they got together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mya View Post
- I'd have to witness both of them being in NRE with each other but not with me.
- I fear in general that I'd be left out and they'd pay less attention to me, especially with NRE glasses on.
Well, this is something you can never know in advance, so it might happen or it might not. But I can trust the love both of them feel for me and just trust that they wouldn't forget about me even in NRE. This might still sting a little bit, but I'm sure it could be worked through.

But these things for the time being are still true for me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mya View Post
- If there are three relationships, the chances of one of them breaking up are bigger. Especially now that we're planning on living together, that would just make things more complicated.
- I really really don't want a triad. I know it's a dream for many people but I've never wanted it. Never. And I still don't. Do I have to be a part of a triad if I don't want to? If my two partners decide it for me? Well I guess I'll always have the choice to leave if it feels too bad. But it just feels weird to me that they could make a decision to start a relationship that would influence me a lot more than any other relationship they would start outside this group, and they could just do that without asking me if I want to be a part of this arrangement. Things don't exist in a vacuum. I fear I would resent them both for dragging me into a triad I never wanted.
- Most important of all: I fear I would resent the whole situation so much that I ended up leaving it, and as a result would lose the two people that are the most precious to me, the people I love and want to share my life with. I'm crying as I'm typing right now. That's it, that's the ultimate fear.
Work in progress.

I feel like this me-Hank-Noah thing is actually helping me. Maybe I can have like a little taste of what an actual triad could be, even though that's not where the three of us are heading.

Interesting times.
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  #455  
Old 02-07-2014, 01:29 AM
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fuchka fuchka is offline
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Quote:
They do want one-on-one time with me, no matter what happens. We all value that, so why would this change if they got together?
Wanting one-on-one time and being able to achieve one-on-one time can, unfortunately, be different things. Adding more people can certainly put pressure on each person's capacity to achieve their desires in this respect.

Some of the fear around this could stem from an awareness of this pressure, too. I think that's fair enough, and something to watch.

Really glad you're finding your way through the dense emotions around this issue, Mya! It's interesting how other things (like your experiences with Noah) can unlock parts of it for you, too.
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  #456  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuchka View Post
Wanting one-on-one time and being able to achieve one-on-one time can, unfortunately, be different things. Adding more people can certainly put pressure on each person's capacity to achieve their desires in this respect.

Some of the fear around this could stem from an awareness of this pressure, too. I think that's fair enough, and something to watch.

Really glad you're finding your way through the dense emotions around this issue, Mya! It's interesting how other things (like your experiences with Noah) can unlock parts of it for you, too.
Thanks again for commenting, fuchka, I really do appreciate it.

I see where you're coming from, but I think that is not the point I was worried about. Since I'm not particularly worried about rory or Hank having other partners besides me, it's not the amount of time itself that I'm thinking about. It's more the quality of the time we do have. The arrangements we have at the moment leave both of them quite a bit of time outside their relationship with me. So if they decided to use that time to spend it with other people, including with each other, that is not the problem. It was more that if they wanted to spend the time in a group that used to be spent one-on-one. But I'm not worried about it anymore, it doesn't seem to be what any of us want.

In general, I feel like I've come to a place with this whole thing where I'm ok. I'm ok in the sense that this is as far as I can process it without it actually being an existing situation. And I'm confident that I could deal with the rest if it ever came to existence. So we're all good in that front.
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  #457  
Old 03-18-2014, 10:43 AM
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Mya Mya is offline
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Do you still remember Bob? He came to visit me recently from Home Country. It was really nice to see him. We had some lovely conversations and cuddled a little bit, but that's as far as it went this time. I wasn't really feeling the sexual side of things. We'll see how that develops the next time I see him.

Then, I wrote this in October last year:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mya View Post
I feel like I'm vaguely interested in different ways in several people at the moment. I have a date with one of them next week and I am looking forward to it. She asked me out and I do think she's really nice, but I just don't know her very well yet to say anything more than that. We'll see how it goes. I'm also a bit interested in a guy I met at a poly event that I went to recently - which is also where I met the woman I'm going out with next week. Me and the guy spent a lot of time cuddling there (as did many other people as well, there was a cuddle pile kind of thing). After the cuddling I asked him if he'd like a kiss and he said 'Just a little one'. So we had a little kiss. I felt half-rejected after that one, so I don't know if he's into me or not. Then there's one of the guys I had sex with that I wrote about recently; I wouldn't mind doing that again. I'm also seeing Evan next week, the first time we're meeting up one-on-one after the break-up. The last time I saw him (at a party) I told him that I'm pretty much over the romantic feelings I had for him but I would still be open to having sex with him if he's interested. He said 'I'll definitely keep that in mind'. So we'll see, I don't know if it's going to happen or not, but I'm open to the idea.
That was about 5 months ago now and I still feel more or less the same way, that I'm interested in these four people in different ways. During this time things have progressed a bit, but not with huge leaps.

The first person I mentioned is Maxine. We continue seeing each other casually, about once a month with sporadic contact between dates. I like hanging out with her, we have a lot of the same interests, she's fun and a good conversationalist, we have sex, but I still don't have huge romantic feelings towards her. We've talked about that and have agreed to keep the relationship on a casual level, calling each other friends or friends with benefits.

The second person I haven't named because there isn't anything really happening between us. But I've seen him a couple of times since the poly event where I met him, so I might as well name him in case I want to talk about him later: Oliver. I invited Oliver to my party last month and he came. Then I saw him at another event after that. We've had some good conversations and I like him. I think he has interesting opinions and he seems very intelligent. He has mentioned that he never asks people out, which means that if I wanted something to happen there, I would have to make the first move. Which I'd be fine with if I got some clear signs that the other person is also interested. Right now I'm still feeling him out, I can't quite figure out what he thinks of me.

The third one I mentioned is Noah. Well, I've already written something about him. I like Noah, I think he's a sweet and interesting person that gradually opens up once you get to know him. He's a bit of a mystery and I want to get to know him better, hear his thoughts and also continue being physical with him. When I say physical I don't mean sex necessarily. We just always kiss and cuddle when we see each other and that's really nice. If we ever have sex again, that's definitely a bonus. I find the dynamic between me, Noah and Hank really fascinating and I want to continue exploring that. Noah is actually coming to dinner again later this week. I can't wait.

Then there's of course Evan. We see each other about once in two or three months and chat on facebook every once in a while. We met up recently, for the first time after we had sex at the New Year's party. It was really really nice. He is still an incredible person and I do still have some feelings for him, I can't help it. We agreed that if we ever end up having sex again, that's fine, but it's also fine if it doesn't happen. So we're on the same page about that and are going with the flow I guess.

So at the moment I'm really glad I haven't met anyone new after October, since these people and of course rory and Hank fill my mind and schedule quite effectively.
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Last edited by Mya; 03-18-2014 at 10:52 AM.
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  #458  
Old 03-18-2014, 01:06 PM
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Then I also wanted to write about Hank and rory.

Me and Hank are doing better than ever. I love him and I love living with him and I feel us getting closer and closer all the time. We both really appreciate each others presence in our lives and we've ironed out most of the things we had conflicts about after we moved in together. We're used to each others ways now. We work as a team. I feel like our relationship is in a really good and stable place.

Rory has been in bad places recently (I won't go into details - I'll let her talk about these things more if she feels like it) and that has affected me and our relationship as well. But I think she's starting to feel better which in turn has positive effects on our relationship. I feel protective over her and it hurts me so much when I see her hurting. Sometimes I don't even know how to deal with everything, her feelings and my feelings over her feelings. But when we get through rough patches like these, I feel like we're even stronger than before. If we can deal with bad times, stick together and help each other as much as we can, there's no stopping us. I love her so much and want to be there for her. And when I need it, I know she'll also be there for me.

I have my third anniversary with rory in three weeks and my first anniversary with Hank in five weeks. Rory is moving in with us in a few weeks. Things seem stable. I think this might work well. I feel positive about the future, so much love and caring going in all directions.
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  #459  
Old 03-23-2014, 12:17 PM
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Dinner with Noah was great. He stayed over and him, me and Hank had our first proper threesome (I say proper because we've sort of started going that way a couple of times but then stopped for one reason or another). I loved seeing Hank and Noah together and I also really enjoyed getting attention from both of them. The three of us always have fun together and the sex we had was no different - there was a lot of laughter. Afterwards we cuddled for a long time and then Hank went to his room because he was sleepy. Me and Noah stayed in my room. We continued talking for a few hours and had sex again, just the two of us this time. The whole evening turned out to be pretty perfect, since I've been kinda wanting time with both the three of us as a group and also some alone time with Noah. And I got both.
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  #460  
Old 03-31-2014, 02:08 PM
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Okay, another observation about a triad type dynamic. Me, Hank and Noah were at the same party on Saturday and I slept next to Noah (the party was at his house). He asked me if I'm sure that it's okay for Hank if I sleep next to him. I explained that me and Hank never sleep next to each other anyway, so it doesn't really make a difference. I got the impression that Noah really cares about Hank and wants to be careful not to come between me and Hank in any way or do anything to make him feel bad. I really appreciated that gesture. But at the same time it made me realise there are definitely things I can't speak to Noah about. Things that have to do with Hank. I mean of course I can talk about some things, but there are quite a lot of areas in our relationship that I don't feel comfortable sharing with Noah because of his connection with Hank. That's fine of course, I don't need to talk to him about everything. But it is one of those things I've always imagined would be different in a triad (or dating my partner's friend / friend's partner / having my partner date my friend) and now for the first time I get to actually experience it.
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