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  #31  
Old 04-07-2010, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
But what I don't do is make that particular thing important to ME.
Therein lies the problem and it's good that you recognize it. That's the start of changing it.

Tech doesn't to this well either. And really struggles to even see the need. One of our worst arguments was over this.

Here's my take on it....he will never, on his own, believe everything I feel is important to be so (that's the nature of being individuals). However, if I consider something important I feel it should be of some importance to him. Simply because he loves me

I'll use your example of the bag of clothes. Suppose Tech told me he was going to get that bag of clothes out of the house. I seriously doubt he would find that important on his list to do but, because I do, he told me he would do it. This would make me feel loved and that what mattered to me was important to him. That he is interested in my wants and needs enough to provide them if possible.

Now suppose that Tech did not get the bag out as he said he would. How do you think I feel now? I feel that I was wrong and he isn't interested in providing my wants and needs when he can. That if something isn't important to him that's how it is...regardless of how I feel about it. Do I feel loved and wanted? No. Do I feel as if I have to force him to do something he promised to do? Yes. Will I ask again? I'd probably give him another chance,yes. But repeated incidences of him not keeping his promises or failing to follow through will most definitely have an affect on our relationship.

There comes a point, and I've been there, when I will wonder whyhe is even saying he loves me. What does he really want from this relationship? What is he willing to do for it? Why is he even here? He told me he wanted this or this in the beginning but his actions do not match his words. Me, well I'm going to believe the actions. They speak louder to me.

Tech and I have different love languages (Gator and I do as well). Everyone needs to figure out what theirs and their partners love language is. And speak to them with that. Not our own as most people have a tendancy to do. Have you heard of the five love languages? They are 1)words of affirmation-that's Tech's 2)quality time-this is mine 3)receiving gifts-this is one of Kitten's 4) acts of service-th other of Kitten's and 5) physical touch-Gator leans heavily towards this. Now all of us will have more than one but generally one will be the more prevelant one. My second one is acts of service but I absolutely love it when one or the other of them ask for a date. Time for just us no matter what we do.

Let those you love know they are important to you. Know what is important to them and follow through with acting upon the things that let them know you love them.
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  #32  
Old 04-07-2010, 06:48 PM
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Ourquad-read that book a couple times.
LOVED it.

I am very much a "switch" in the love languages, and having read it a few times, I am pretty (no one's perfect) good at taking symbols of love from any of the 5 and seeing them for acts of love.

For example, on another thread I mentioned a kid (he's 17)who I ADORE, great kid. Well his love language is Acts of Service, no doubt about it.

When he asks me (which he does all of the time), "does your water bottle need refilled? Do you want something from the kitchen?" as he gets up to go to the kitchen, I always always always tell him (usually the answer is no), "no but THANK YOU his name here, that's so sweet and I love you!". I also try to do for him, grab him a blanket, make his plate if I cook dinner/breakfast, etc. Because acts of service is his love language.

Because, that's HIS way of showing love.
When Maca is touchy feely-(I really had to teach myself this) I respond with I love you and try to return the physical affection, because HIS love language is physical touch. I also try to make a point of caressing his cheek, grabbing his butt , stroking his hair and making love, even when there isn't anything I can get from it, because that makes HIM feel loved.

GG is usually pretty good at acceping love in a number of forms, but he's very much a cross between time and physical touch, except not necessarily sexual touch like Maca. I make sure to give him a hug goodnight, goodbye, and taking time to sit and talk (usually about nothing in particular). That's generally all it takes. He's not even REALLY particular about it being one on one time, just time/attention.

But-the thing that REALLY kicks my ass is when I'm NOT doing well (which isn't often in the big scheme, but has been a LOT since Thanksgiving due to my multiple surgeries). When I'm not doing well, is when my true love language is the only one that REALLY works, and that is time. The "acts of service" (like the bag he mentioned) comes into play but it's not a love language issue, it's that I can't lift the bag LITERALLY and I can't drive it to the consignment shop so I'm dependent on someone else to do it.
Maca works in another town, he leaves before the shop opens and he returns after they are closed.
My sister works here in town-but she works West of our house and the shop is East.
GG on the other hand passes by the location of the shop every day for work........
For the things I can't do because of medical issues I try very very hard to minimize "taking advantage" of any one person or asking anyone to do something that really would be "going out of their way to do".
In this case-my sister and Maca ended up taking time out of work to take the bags for me... because GG kept putting it off, for MONTHS-literally. So not only did all those thing you mention about my feelings come up (and yes the bag is an example and there are lots of others) but also his procrastination meant that other people had to rearrange their days to do it and in this case it was a much bigger task for them than it would be for him AND they know it since we all live together, so he also annoyed the piss out of them...
EEK.

Anyway-he's getting in the shower now, so I'm going to try to read a little before my friend shows up to take me for a walk. Love my walks!!
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  #33  
Old 04-07-2010, 06:54 PM
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That was the book I was talking about ourquad. "The five love languages." We all read it and know each others ways of being loved. We act on them too. Hence why I tell them what I need to hear in order to feel loved. I Also require "acts of service." Its a big one for me and means next to nothing to both my men. I was doing stuff for them to express love and they weren't even getting it. Now things have changed and we are all on board. The point is though, that we are ALL on board.
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  #34  
Old 04-07-2010, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
I also suggest having a look at "the five love languages" if you haven't already because you haven't mentioned once how GG might need to be loved in all this. After all, he needs love too and it might just be that you are different.
Interesting detail to note-GG and I actually have the same primary love language, time... which is ONE reason why it hurt SO MUCH that after telling me he would be here for me through this-he started making plans to not be here. His reasoning (and he said it to me, Maca and my sister) was that Maca was here, so that makes it like he's not needed.
He seemed to miss this technicality-Maca being here for me makes me feel like Maca loves me..... Maca being here does not impact whether or not I feel that GG loves me.
GG being here or not being here is what impacts how loved I feel by GG.....
Even my sister (whose also known and been involved as a close friend with GG for 17 years unlike Maca) was astonished because like I said-it's OBVIOUS that GG's love language is TIME, just like mine.

As I said in my other post-when I'm well and not having issues, I can usually accept love well regardless of the method of delivery, acts of service (totally my sisters also), time, physical touch, gifts, words.. it doesn't matter. But when I'm not well, when I'm not able to take care of myself, then I revert to really needing that love expressed in my love language-and that is time.

Quote:
What you value LR and Maca and what he values might be different.
Quite often what Maca and GG value differs. For that matter quite often what Maca and I value differ. Only in a few very specific areas does what I value and what GG values differ. Seriously. Enough so that often outside people have said we could be twins. We look nothing alike mind you.
Remember, that GG was very much still a kid when we became close and many of his "values" were decided based upon his experiences watching and living side by side with me and my sister. Especially in regards to raising kids, family responsibilities, relationships.

Quote:
I don't think that the "punishement (because it sure sounds kinda like one)" of "you don't get to be primary" because you aren't doing it "my" way is not necessarily fair. The thing that sticks out for me is that he might not want that kind of primary role and that needs to be worked out.
It's not a punishment RP. It's an actions speak louder than words thing. He's obviously NOT ready for the responsibilities that even he would want given him in a primary relationship. He couldn't identify them off the top of his head, but when it was stated as, "if you .... what would you want your SO to do..." method, he could and did identify the same things.

As he said, if I were hanging from a cliff and even his best friend (who by the way I DO think is an AWESOME guy and have NO issues with) were also-he would pull me up AND his best friend would expect him to also.
IF he were hanging from that cliff and my "best friend" was also-GG would want to believe that I would pull him up first too.
Emotionally, physically I AM hanging from a cliff, and his other best friend is NOT, it's JUST ME, but instead of actually pulling me up, he responded with "maca's there, he can..."

On the MSN front page there was an article yesterday about a 2 year old falling in the East River in NY. The father jumped in to save her-we can all see the emotion that would drive that yes? So did a French Tourist. No thought, no pause, just went in after her....he didn't say (and apparently didn't think) "well that other guy jumped in, so I can go get that cab now and head home".

THAT is my issue. GG keeps making things (this is only one there are others) about "well if Maca can do it for her then I'm not needed."
The relationships are separate. We DO have a relationship as three, but we also each have our OWN relationships to "upkeep".

GG needs to think about OUR relationship to decide what he should do for/with me, not my relationship with Maca.

By his behavior thus far (which is very mono in nature actually, not to be mistaken for Mono, I mean, mono) if Maca gives me a Valentine's Day card or a birthday card, he doesn't need to, because Maca took care of it....

WELLLLLL if that's the way it's going to be..... then if Maca makes love to me why would I need to make love to GG? If Maca says i love you then I don't need GG to say he loves me?
If Maca tells me he thinks I'm beautiful then GG doesn't need to tell me he thinks I'm beautiful?

Each relationship has it's OWN responsibilities and just because Maca is being responsible in his (FINALLY) that doesn't mean GG doesn't have to be responsible in HIS relationship.

Quote:
I hear what you are saying LR. You are fed up. Completely, but listen to who ever it was who said to not decide anything now.
I'm not deciding anything permanent-well really-I almost NEVER do. I decided to step back and give GG the freedom of a secondary. The freedom to go do what he needs to do, not ask him to be the one I depend on right now, when I NEED someone dependable. Freedom to go do whatever it is he needs to do, grow, learn, make choices.

I'm not kicking him out, I'm not "breaking up", I'm not ending our relationship. Just backing off.
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  #35  
Old 04-07-2010, 07:12 PM
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I got the book as a valentine's day present for my fiance... He has yet to read it. I haven't read it yet either because I'm waiting for him to.

LR I really get your way of thinking and I know you are thinking of him when you contemplate this change. Whether he sees it as such is a different story. My fiance and I haven't made it through this yet. He still has this struggle that I can't wrap my head around. With us it HAS gone on too long. Last week was the end of my rope. I was barely functioning besides yelling or crying when he was in my presence. If I would have thought about your idea I would have ran with it.

The problem is I stopped voicing my needs and told him I wanted to know what he wants from our relationship. What HE wants his role in my life to be. I needed to know and I wanted complete honesty. He wants a primary role. He wants "to be the man", to support me, to be a pillar of strength, to be my soft place to land, to follow through. The problem is... (for me) it's not an instant fix. I still have to deal with how things are now because before he can be that man he wants to be he's got to learn how to do those things. The things on his list aren't difficult (for me) but he struggles. There is something blocking his ability. This wall... I feel I MUST know what it is. More than that he has no answer. So More than I need to know, HE needs to know what his preventing him from getting to point A to point B. It would be much easier to place him in a role that he wouldn't struggle in. It creates such chaos, but it's not what he wants for himself. So I sit and wait while he tries to figure it out and I try not to go into a tail spin everytime he "fails". We've gotten far enough now that he sees the hurt from his actions, but he hasn't quite stopped those actions. It's all a blur and sometimes I just want to scream (and I have unfortunately) IF YOU WANT IT SO BAD JUST FUCKING DO IT ALREADY!!!

I'd really like to understand. I relate myself to a cameleon. I am what my environment needs me to be. I can morph from one role to the next instantly so I don't get where the difficulty comes from. I would like to know, but my fiance is just as confused about the struggle as I am.

Right now, we are talking when I am emotionally strong enough to. taking insy weensy steps because I'm a lit fuse these days. I need time to heal from all of this but we still have to try to function as a family. but if we have any break throughs, I'll share them with you. if you have some I know you'll share x) we are supposed to have a convo tonight after if it's not too late I'm going to tell him about this thread. it would be nice if he would sign up and maybe put in his two cents on this. But lurking is all I expect.
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  #36  
Old 04-07-2010, 08:20 PM
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I lurk too. =o) This is the most I've ever written on the board at all.

I can tell you, IL2M, that it's extremely frustrating on this end as well. Concepts that make total sense to me and things I would expect of anyone that said they were really in love woth someone, are very difficult for me to apply to myself. Reason...? I am trying to figure that out. I suppose it's different for everyone.

You're right, your fiance and I sound identical, but how we got there might be totally different. I am ADD, and much of my forgetfulness and procrastination is involved with that. So I take Adderol to tone it down a bit, to keep the thoughts in my head on an even lever, enough so that I can keep track and think clearer. But the meds only HELP me with doing that. They don't do it FOR me. I still have to put things into practice. I still have to make/ break habits.

It's not that you aren't important to him, per se'. It's that his priorities are all over the place. Well, MAYBE. It's that way for me. LR IS a priority for me, and pleasing her and doing for her is something VERY important for me to ensure and do. BUT, I ought to know her well enough that I don't have to be told, or asked to do certian things. I especially shouldn't have to be told or asked a SECOND time. (as we tell children).

So what I'm working on now is: realizing how important I actually am to her and asking myself if I'm willing to accept that. It's easy for some to put themselves mentally in anothers shoes, especially when it's OTHER soeone's that don't pertain to them. But it's also difficult for those same people to do that when the situation involves THEM, or pertains to THEM.

For example: I can see the POV between you/ your fiance'. I can relate to both sides. But even being the same situation, it's difficult for me to be in LR's shoes and see ME as she does. And that is one reason we're having this difficult time. I really need to make it a habit and force myself to see HER side and feel how SHE'S feeling. We are very simillar, but there are things that are important to her that really are not to me and vice versa, but at least she pays attention to what is/ isn't to me and plays on that knowlege. That is something I need to do, because that is what an S/O does. ESPECIALLY an S/O. A common friend should do that sa well.

Anyway, more later, gotta go to work! =o)
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  #37  
Old 04-07-2010, 08:53 PM
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I'm tired of writing fiance(C) and boyfriend(K).

C also has add, but he doesn't take anything for it. There's been abuse and abandonment as well.

To me what I see is an emotional disconnect. Where you can see both sides of my story, but if you insert LR where she's stated she feels the same, it makes no sense to you. C does this as well. It's the whole I "hear" what you're saying thing I was talking about. You have the rationalization down. You have love for LR, but it's not all clicking together to form a well oiled machine maybe? (lol look at me with boy talk xp ) I may be grasping at straws, but... Who knows.
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  #38  
Old 04-07-2010, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ilove2men View Post
I got the book as a valentine's day present for my fiance... He has yet to read it. I haven't read it yet either because I'm waiting for him to.
That's funny-ironic not laughable.
I have bought a NUMBER of books and asked GG to read them (Maca does this too), but they continue to sit in various "I'm not dealing with this right now" places.

I pulled one out today that has been sitting for MONTHS, Love Without Limits by Deborah Anapol. I bought two copies (yes seriously) gave one to Maca, one to GG. Maca put his on his bedside table, I pulled it out today, from under a foot high pile of other shit. GG put his on a box on the floor in his room, I pulled it out from under a pile of shit.
Then set them on the kitchen counter today. GG didn't even remember me giving it to him when I SPOKE about it-but it took me less than 30 seconds to go downstairs and pull out BOTH books, because I knew exactly where they were and how long they've been there proving that something I felt was important enough to not only read myself, but to purchase TWO COPIES and give to each of them, wasn't important enough to even remember much less actually read.


Like I would randomly do that if I didn't think that the information was IMPORTANT in our relationship?
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  #39  
Old 04-07-2010, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I pulled one out today that has been sitting for MONTHS, Love Without Limits by Deborah Anapol. I bought two copies (yes seriously) gave one to Maca, one to GG. Maca put his on his bedside table, I pulled it out today, from under a foot high pile of other shit. GG put his on a box on the floor in his room, I pulled it out from under a pile of shit.
I can relate. I have a few books I bought for my wife and I to read. I have read them and they helped. I want her to understand me more deeply then the surface level of understanding "I want to love more"....

She is heading back home for 3 weeks and plans to read Opening Up and Ethical Slut. I really do hope she does
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:10 PM
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I read Opening Up as well. I asked them both to read it-they didn't. I haven't read the Ethical Slut, but no one's asked me to either.

Maca asked for advice early on, RP's husband suggested he read "Living Happily Ever After". I saw the suggestion, I bought the book. I read the book (great book). I asked Maca and GG to read it.
They both started it (together) but both of them opted to put it down before finishing chapter one and neither has finished it. MIND YOU that was after BOTH of them were acknowledging that there were some KEY things in that first chapter that they each needed to work on!!!!!!
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