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  #191  
Old 01-19-2014, 11:17 AM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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Good news that you aren't feeling so bad and are finding ways to start coping with Ginger's budding new relationships.

I have been visiting with friends this weekend and over breakfast this morning we chatted about new relationships and the issues that they can cause for existing ones. I have a couple of friends who started new romantic relationships and found that their close friends - the ones they had been in the habit of spending all their spare time with - were jealous and upset. In one case, things settled down and all is well. In the other, the jealous friend has remained jealous and resentful of her friend's now 5 year long relationship.

We talked about how life change is easy to deal with if we are the ones choosing it. If I start a new, shiny and exciting relationship, it's all fun and happiness for me. But if somebody close to me does the same thing, I have found myself upset and feeling down because somebody close to me has somebody new that's close to them.

My friends are very wise and reckoned that a good coping strategy for dealing with change that somebody else has chosen is to see it as an opportunity. Maybe to have time to do something new or to make a new friend if the new partner turns out to be lovely.

I kind of like that way of looking at change when considering how to deal with it.

IP
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  #192  
Old 01-19-2014, 12:38 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernGal View Post
I hope you don't mind me posting here, but a few things caught my attention and I wanted to ask about them.
No, of course, I don't mind, I appreciate it.

Quote:
You said the idea of him being with the other women is just "gross" to you. Why is that? Do you think it might in part be because they have one or both strains of Herpes? Or is it a spiritual/emotional type of thing?
I guess... maybe both, but also, it's kind of like, I don't want to be part of their sex life. If I hear about what they did, from Ginger, or imagine things on my own, I feel somehow forced to be involved in the sex they are having, against my will.

...That sounds crazy when I type it out. What Ginger and one of these 2 women do is none of my business. I could tell him not to tell me anything, and I could try and stop imagining what they do. It's odd, since with miss p I am used to hearing about the sexy things she's done with this or that bf, and finding it a bit of a turn-on. But in this case, it's the opposite, a turn-OFF or grossed out feeling. How can I turn this around, from feeling grossed out and threatened by what they do, to feeling compersion, happiness, a slight (or even big) turn-on?

Quote:
Sort of "If he spends time with them, it somehow dilutes or poisons what he feels for me" kind of thing? Why?
I don't know why. I know when I get a crush, or feel an interest in someone else, like some cute guy I am casually chatting on okc, it doesn't change how much I love Ginger or miss p. So why do I imagine him developing interest in someone else threatens the feelings he has for me?

After all, he tells me in word and deed that new relationships cause him anxiety, and he comes to me full of love, and hugs me so warmly and seems to feel I am a safe harbor, and he desires me, and wants to be with me, talk, snuggle, go out on a date sometimes.



Quote:
What could you or he do to help dispel that feeling?
Well, I do feel kind of taken for granted. I do feel like our sex life lost a little spice lately. I think he's getting the spiciness he needs from talking to or being with these women. Our sex life had gotten kind of vanilla. I did remark on that, and requested and made him hear I want more kink. He did accomodate that the other night and it did help me feel more special, and more sexually fulfilled.

Quote:
What about him having more partners makes you feel less special? Is it because he picks other partners so similar to you? If so, have you thought about asking him "What's special about me? Why did you want me and why do you want to keep me?" With Asperger's, who knows what kind of answers you might get, but it might be worth taking that step.
I feel like I know what he likes or loves about me. He just wants some variety. Maybe her nipples respond differently to touch. Maybe she's taller than me. Maybe she lives in an intentional community and that is interesting. Maybe she's more Zen than me, more submissive than me, thinner, fatter, shyer, sounds different when she cums. Could be hundreds of subtle differences. Not "better" than me in any way, just different, and vive la difference!



Quote:
Or do you feel less special because you had the hope of being able to spend more time with him (and Miss Pixi) when you moved and that's turning out not to be true? It sort of sounds like he's taking the extra time saved by you living close and using that to pursue other partners and that worries and perhaps offends you. You're wonderful and he has more of a chance to see you and he's not taking the chance. What the hell is wrong with him?!? Of course, I could be completely wrong, but I could see feeling that way myself.
Yeah, I definitely feel this way and have told miss p that and she agrees she thought we'd see more of him, that he'd hang out more, be more like family. Instead, he seems to like to keep to his daily routine and fit me/us in around it. 3 hours midday, or in the evening.

Quote:

I really feel for you. Like, I saw another post and came over here to read what was going on because I was concerned. I really hope you are able to work through this. No one should have to feel that way for very long. I'm rooting for you.
Thanks! Today is the day of his date with Buddhist and I did not sleep well last night.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #193  
Old 01-19-2014, 12:52 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Originally Posted by InfinitePossibility View Post
... the jealous friend has remained jealous and resentful of her friend's now 5 year long relationship.
Well, I hope I don't remain feeling threatened and resentful of Ginger being with other for 5 years. I do feel myself withdrawing from him emotionally though, sad to say. Not at all to the point I don't want him in my life! But if my moving here made him so comfortable he's spending less time with me, when I expected more... I feel disappointed and will have to fill that hole with something or someone else. I don't feel as trusting of him. He is the not boyfriend I thought he was. Our relationship is no longer developing on the track it seemed to be on before.

Quote:
My friends are very wise and reckoned that a good coping strategy for dealing with change that somebody else has chosen is to see it as an opportunity. Maybe to have time to do something new...
Well, I definitely have more time to masturbate instead of getting fucked hard and well! I've got more time to troll okc and see who's been looking at me, is there anyone else decent out there.

Quote:
or to make a new friend if the new partner turns out to be lovely.
Yeah, miss p also had that idea: maybe Mags' new partner will become a new friend. Thing is, right now, that idea, when applied to Ginger's new partner(s) grosses me out.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #194  
Old 01-19-2014, 02:02 PM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
But if my moving here made him so comfortable he's spending less time with me, when I expected more... I feel disappointed and will have to fill that hole with something or someone else. I don't feel as trusting of him. He is the not boyfriend I thought he was. Our relationship is no longer developing on the track it seemed to be on before.
That is sad. I hope you feel differently again.

I wonder if Ginger is a bit like me. I've always maintained relationships that require me to be away from home. Not always far but enough that spending time together means a bit of a travel and sometimes staying overnight. I didn't like where I grew up so to me travelling away was a pleasure and I think I've maintained that.

My partner and most of my friends live at least a half drive away from me. I kind of like it like that for the moment.


Quote:
Yeah, miss p also had that idea: maybe Mags' new partner will become a new friend. Thing is, right now, that idea, when applied to Ginger's new partner(s) grosses me out.
Yep - my partner is one of those blokes that women love. I've known him for over 20 years and it has always been that way. Back when I was a teenager and he and I were FWB I met loads of his other FWBs and tended to find them lovely.

One of those women is family to me now. The very first time she and I met we bonded over both having lost our virginity to my now partner.

A couple of years ago I met a woman for the first time who had been FWB of my partner. He doesn't really see her any more but she and I got chatting. I mentioned to her how often I find I get on well with my partner's women friends. She looked at me. Said that she hadn't really thought about it before but now that I mentioned it, her 2 closest friends are my partner's most recent ex girlfriend and the girlfriend before her.

I tend to be a fan of seeing new people as potential friends rather than as threats.

My partner and I are monogamous but I think that if I didn't have that attitude I would be regularly upset. He meets new people all the time and regularly comes to see me talking about his excitement at making a new woman friend how much he hopes they stay part of his life.

One of those women is now a very good friend of mine. She was incredibly supportive of me when my dad was dying and remains a fantastic friend.

I hope that you get through this time without too much more upset.

IP
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  #195  
Old 01-19-2014, 05:32 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Well, guess what, folks? Ginger msged me around 10am to tell me Buddhist had just messaged him: she'd had a cold sore all week and it's still there somewhat. She left it up to him whether to still have the date or not.

He told her he'd rather postpone. I know he loves kissing and as he said, "For our first intimate date I didn't want to be restrained by that."

So, he expressed his disappointment to me and told me he knows it's hard for me since I've been worrying and now we can't even "get it [sex date w Buddhist] behind us."

I just said, "Ugh."

After a few minutes he asked if he, "Could I please get just a hint of sympathy? " So, I said, "I am sorry for your disappointment." He said, "Thanks, I know that was hard for you [to say]."

After I took in this info, I said, "Well I guess I'll get out there and finish shoveling." My back hurts, I went hiking twice this week and somehow strained my back. When I got back in I saw he'd offered to come over and shovel, and/or massage my back. I didn't respond.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37

Last edited by Magdlyn; 01-19-2014 at 05:45 PM.
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  #196  
Old 01-19-2014, 05:43 PM
CherryBlossomGirl CherryBlossomGirl is offline
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Default Hugs.

So sorry to hear that you are struggling and not feeling special - you are an amazing woman, and did a lot to create space and opportunity for your relationship to flourish and deepen with Ginger. It can be rather disconcerting to find out that you process life differently, and have entirely different needs than your partner(s).

Sending you wishes for peace and happiness despite these challenges; looking on OKCupid for other prospects seems like a good idea! MissP and you are such a good fit - there will be that elsewhere, too!
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  #197  
Old 01-20-2014, 10:38 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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That man. Sometimes he is so infuriating, telling me in chat my anxieties over various stresses in my life right now are somehow bizarre or clueless about reality. I know he doesnt mean it the way it sounds. He is trying to get me to be rational instead of emotional.

Finally somehow we made a connection. I said I'd been too depressed to keep up with dishes and remembering my meds and vitamins. He said, take your meds, dishes can wait. I said, dish clutter makes me even more stressed out. He said, want me to come over and do your dishes? I said, OK.

So, he did, while I walked the dog. miss p has been sick so not holding up her end of dog care.

Then I finally felt more taken care of than our attempts at spoken conversation. He really is much better at service than verbal reassurances. After dishes, we had really good sex. Seems hes putting in more of an effort to be creative there too.

I don't want to be fightin one minute and fuckin the next. I wish we could figure out how to make this transition to him dating Buddhist feel easier. I told him I don't get freaked out like this when miss p dates, so what is different?

Oh, I also made sure we took a nap after sex. Since he never sleeps over anymore, a 30 minute nap together felt similarly comforting.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #198  
Old 01-21-2014, 11:47 AM
london london is offline
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Quote:
. I know he doesnt mean it the way it sounds. He is trying to get me to be rational instead of emotional.
Maybe I should put this in my signature.
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  #199  
Old 01-21-2014, 01:03 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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It's odd for me, because in poly, you're supposed to verbally communicate and hash everything out. miss pixi and I do that, and it keeps us bonded and on the same page. But with Ginger, this doesn't seem to work so well. Especially in IM chat. He gets defensive, a bit pissy. He's much better in person, when he is able to hold me, kiss me, snuggle and cuddle as we talk, and then move to fucking asap. Good thing I really like fucking as a bonding experience too!

I just have to come to accept this need of his to go forward with dating Buddhist and see where it leads. Let go, and let him explore. I do feel he is dedicated to me, and miss p, but maybe I just need to ask for more help around the house. It does make me feel cared for when he helps out.

Meanwhile, when he was here, after sex and nap, I screwed up my courage to ask if he'd set a new date with Buddhist. He said, not yet. She had 2 dates with 2 new okc guys for yesterday, she had told him! Sheesh. She's really promiscuous. New worry: she was ready to have sex with Ginger before having the safer sex talk. Is she also doing that with other guys? Has she already, will she again? Probably.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #200  
Old 01-23-2014, 07:30 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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I've got a bunch of thoughts so this will likely not be well organized.

*hugs Mags*. I am so sorry it's hard now.

Did Ginger know you and Miss Pixi expected him to hang out at your place more often now that you two were closer? Did he agree to that? I know from friends and partners with various degrees of autism if it wasn't said out loud and explicitly agreed to, it doesn't exist. They just don't 'get' social assumptions. It may have never occurred to Ginger that because you are closer, you may have wanted more time with him.

If it was assumed or unspoken, well, I personally know it really hurts when an unexamined assumption or expectation doesn't occur and one is suddenly blindsided by an unmet need or want that one wasn't even fully aware of. This has happened to me several times with Whip. It's really painful. For some reason, not having unspoken expectations met by partners lead me to feel rage and anger faster and more intensely than other hurts. I wonder if something similar is going on for you.

And it's not anyone's fault - if assumptions are not spelled out, they can't be acted upon by partners. I think this is why some people try to avoid having any expectations. I personally have had little success with that approach. I can't stand that much ambiguity.

So I try to manage my expectations. I try to have as many of them as possible out in the open - I talk about them, we come to agreements about them (or not sometimes). I work on getting my assumptions and expectations about relationships into my conscious mind instead of lurking like hungry sharks in my unconscious. That said, I fail at this a lot. It's hard.

So if you had an expectation that wasn't explicitly agreed upon and are feeling terrible it wasn't met, well, it might be time to try and let that go. This is doubly true when dating someone with Asberger's or similar conditions. (Whip believes he is somewhere on the autism scale - I happen to believe his experiences are more to do with being strongly ADHD but that is neither here nor there.) Yes, I know this is so much easier to say than to do! I've been known to hold a grudge. This is not exactly a grudge but it can have the same emotional 'stickiness' at least in my experience. And I fail a lot at this too. Sometimes I've had to say out loud to myself, 'I am no longer worrying this to death in my mind'. And then, when it inevitably pops up in my brain, I consciously move my thoughts to something else. I literally say 'I am not thinking about this' and then make myself think about something else.

I also know that when adjusting to a new situation sometimes it is just hard for a time. I've experienced that when Whip began seeing his other girlfriend, and again when their relationship evolved. It was just hard and the only solution was time, and to keep talking, and monitoring my emotional state. I had to remind myself that this crappiness will not be forever. You might be enduring such a situation now. Change is just hard. But it is not forever.

Do you trust his ability to pick decent metamours for you? If you do - and he has good taste obviously! - then try to let go of worrying and wondering what Buddhist or the other chickies (or roosters) are like. You have zippo control over this. Do you have every right to be concerned about possible metamours being less than careful about their sexual health? Yes, absolutely.

But you have talked this over with Ginger and he appears to be taking precautions. He did actually postpone his date with Buddhist because of the cold sores. He is taking your concerns, and his own, into account. Yes, she might be way too impulsive but you have done what you can do realistically. You have let Ginger know of your concerns about your health and his interactions with Buddhist (and others). He is acting on that input. It might not be as much as you want. But overall it is a good thing. It's something to build trust around, not dismiss. It might help - if you haven't already - to tell him you appreciate that. Yes, he did it for himself but I am sure keeping you and Miss Pixi as safe as he can was also on his mind.

If you don't trust Ginger to keep his agreements (spoken out loud and agreed to) with you, to use good judgment when interacting with others, then there are larger issues than just a new possible metamour. However, I don't think this is case from your writing about him.

Plus, really, aren't all poly women promiscuous in the eyes of someone somewhere?

I feel you on the verbal communication and poly. It is what we are 'supposed' to do but it doesn't work well for everyone. Whip is also not great at the verbal communication. He also shows affection and love mostly through touch. We do talk - both of us acknowledge the necessity - but it is a struggle.

If other modes of talking are not working, don't use them for emotional stuff. Rarely I have an important discussion via text with Whip but usually it is a no go. It needs to be in person or over the phone. And I only pick the phone if I won't see him in person for a while and I can't wait. So maybe limit IM chat or text to lighter topics, like logistics. Also, I have often assumed a totally different meaning to what was written than what Whip actually meant. If he feels misunderstood (and I do not know if that is what is going on), then yes, pissy and defensive are likely from just about anyone.

I find I have to explicitly ask for what I want and need with Whip. He is not going to get it otherwise. If I don't ask, it doesn't happen. It's not because he doesn't love me - it's how he is. This is often immensely frustrating for me. I feel like if I keep demanding what I want and need, he will get tired of my demands and leave me. But that's all in my head. He has shown no sign of that. If I don't tell him, out loud with explicit details, he doesn't know. Perhaps Ginger is similar? If he knows explicitly what you need - down to details you may think unnecessary - then he can act upon it.

It is uncool of him to dismiss your concerns as too emotional or not rational. Either or both may be true of course! But he might be trying, ineptly perhaps, to get you to a point where you can tell him what to do so he can stop causing you pain. He may not be able to figure that out on his own. But if you can do something like I need you Ginger to do 1) walk the dog while Miss Pixi is sick, 2) help me around the house once a week, 3) fuck me silly twice a week, 4) have kinky play time at least once a week, 5) snuggle times three times a week, and so on, then he has something to do.

So you have to figure out what would reassure you and then tell him that. I bet if he has some concrete 'action items' he will do them. It's not fair that you have to figure this out without much help from him. But that is just not who he is. I'm sure he tries but difficult emotional processing is unlikely to ever be his strong suit.

I had some other thoughts but they have evaporated from my brain.

You will figure this out Mags. This discomfort and pain will not last.

Last edited by opalescent; 01-23-2014 at 10:44 PM. Reason: refining delivery
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