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  #21  
Old 01-17-2014, 12:53 PM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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Originally Posted by scarletzinnia View Post
But how many creeps who are only out to get laid are going to stick around for multiple platonic dates, where they will be presumably required to be charming and engaging and have decent manners, if they can just go find some drunk chick at a bar and get laid the same night? Some, sure, but not many.

Nothing I said here "slut shamed" anyone. Not sleeping with someone right away is a FILTERING TOOL. Nothing more, nothing less.
True - not sleeping with somebody on a first date is a filtering tool but like most tools, you have to know what it is you're trying to do with them in order to get the results you want out of them.

The folk who are just out to get laid are easy to spot and tend to get rid of themselves. I know that it's not nice to think you have a connection with somebody who then proceeds to ignore you or is horrible to you but I think that is far from the worst thing that can happen.

The folks I'd be much more interested in avoiding aren't those guys - it's the guys who will go on multiple platonic dates. Who are charming and lovely and don't disappear if they don't get sex right away.

Among that group are guys who seem just as they are - genuine, friendly blokes who want to make a connection. Also in that group are the ones who think that 'nice' girls don't want sex - you know - the ones who class girls that are 'easy' as not being suitable to meet their family or build a long term relationship with.

That second group aren't so easy to spot. You can get to know somebody really very well without those attitudes being obvious. I am very keen to avoid building relationships with people who have those attitudes. I certainly don't want somebody like that to be central in my life. I don't want to go through the pain of extracting myself from a relationship I've spent months building or worse - make excuses for the person because I've come to care about them.

The fastest way to spot them imo, is to sleep with new people very quickly. Preferably on the first date. The ones looking for a 'nice' girl bugger off at that point. The decent guys who are looking for a connection and also think that it's okay for women to like sex hang around.

You need to know what you are filtering for it to work well.

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  #22  
Old 01-17-2014, 01:08 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Do you think maybe there is a feeling here that somehow by sleeping with the F*ckwits you are rewarding them for bad behaviour? Because I tell you one thing, that is how I felt by reading Scarlet's post, like well great, he didn't get rewarded that night the f*ckwit.

I don't want to sound precious about sex or anything and if you really want to sleep with someone and you don't care whether you see them again or not that is fine, but I just hate the idea of really disrespectful tossers being enabled in their behaviour.

Perhaps if we just stopped sleeping with the f*ckwits they will adapt their behaviour?

Or am I being too idealistic?
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  #23  
Old 01-17-2014, 01:54 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Originally Posted by scarletzinnia View Post
Nothing I said here "slut shamed" anyone. Not sleeping with someone right away is a FILTERING TOOL.
You may not have consciously meant it that way, but when someone says "I fucked this guy on a first date and then he turned out to be a jerk. What went wrong?" and the response is "Don't fuck guys right away anymore," how can that be construed as anything other than laying the blame for what happened on the woman who dared to act on her own sexual desire and get laid? That sure looked like slut-shaming to me. It says that the guy was not responsible for his own actions, and that if a chick fucks somebody right away and he acts like a bastard, it's her mistake, her fault.

Even your little story about that guy you and your friend both went out with supports that attitude. "I set boundaries and do not fuck on a first date, and therefore emerged unscathed, but my friend who fucked him on their first date was punished for it." Egad.

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Originally Posted by InfinitePossibility View Post
The fastest way to spot them imo, is to sleep with new people very quickly. Preferably on the first date. The ones looking for a 'nice' girl bugger off at that point. The decent guys who are looking for a connection and also think that it's okay for women to like sex hang around.
I have also found this to be true. Thing is, if I want to fuck someone, I do it for me and because it is what I want in that moment. I don't delude myself into thinking a guy owes me a relationship because I fucked him.
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  #24  
Old 01-17-2014, 02:14 PM
scarletzinnia scarletzinnia is offline
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Why does it matter if you sleep with someone, then find out they are an idiot? It isn't like you give a little bit of your soul to every guy you fuck.

Why is it better to have wasted x amount of time with them on platonic dates rather than have sex with them on the first date and find out they are an idiot?


It isn't intrinsically better for anyone. But it's better for women like the OP, who was upset enough by this very thing to create this thread. It would have been better for my friend's girlfriend, who was terribly upset by her "idiot." And I know it's better for me personally.

Some of us are emotionally wired so that getting naked makes us more emotionally vulnerable. We don't want to go into sexual situations with people who will treat us callously or cruelly, because being naked and vulnerable with them will give them more power to hurt us than if all we'd done was talk.

Others, clearly some of the posters here, are not wired that way, which gives them the ability to shrug off a one-night stand gone wrong and not give it another thought. Good for you all, but we don't all have that ability.
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  #25  
Old 01-17-2014, 02:43 PM
london london is offline
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That's because we don't view sex as a shameful activity. Sure, be upset the guy you spent time on is a jerk. Whether you had sex with him is completely irrelevant. The majority of people who feel as you do, of your friend did, subscribe to the belief that every guy a woman fuck takes a little piece of them away. Every new sexual partner takes a little bit of purity. Every notch on the bedpost should make one feel disgusted with themselves. If you saw sex in a more positive light, if you weren't embarrassed and ashamed of female libido, the idea of waiting to have sex as some sort of test of their worthiness and respect wouldn't seem logical.

Last edited by london; 01-17-2014 at 02:46 PM.
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  #26  
Old 01-17-2014, 02:59 PM
scarletzinnia scarletzinnia is offline
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That's because we don't view sex as a shameful activity. Sure, be upset the guy you spent time on is a jerk. Whether you had sex with him is completely irrelevant. The majority of people who feel as you do, of your friend did, subscribe to the belief that every guy a woman fuck takes a little piece of them away. Every new sexual partner takes a little bit of purity. Every notch on the bedpost should make one feel disgusted with themselves. If you saw sex in a more positive light, if you weren't embarrassed and ashamed of female libido, the idea of waiting to have sex as some sort of test of their worthiness and respect wouldn't seem logical.

This is an utter load of crap. It's not true for me nor my friend's girlfriend, and I don't believe it is true for the OP either.

I have a high libido and it's one of the reasons I love being polyamorous. My first year of being poly I think I had something like 20 partners that year alone. It was mostly fun and I don't regret any of it, I learned a lot about myself sexually and had some great times. But the two or three who ended up acting like assholes really upset me. That's when I started to realize that I needed to take better care of myself, filter out the creeps, strive to surround myself with caring, sensitive people only. The only way to know if people are caring, sensitive people is to get to know them pretty well. If anyone invents another way, I'd love to know about it.
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  #27  
Old 01-17-2014, 03:26 PM
LoveBunny LoveBunny is offline
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I don't think anybody here was "slut-shaming" in the least. If you're going to have sex on the first date then get upset because the person you did it with doesn't call again, why do it to yourself? Waiting a bit before having sex doesn't make you any less sex-positive or gender-equal. If anyone here is "slut-shaming," others can be said to be "prude-shaming."

The OP behaved appropriately given her beliefs at the moment about herself and the guy she was with. Maybe she misjudged the guy, or perhaps he overestimated his level of interest in her. Would waiting a bit before introducing sex have alleviated some of the OP's confusion and pain? Who knows. Maybe after a second date, she would've picked up cues that he wasn't looking for more than a fling, or she might have felt more comfortable expressing her expectations. Or maybe he's the kind of guy who can spend weeks seducing someone just to dump them. There's no double-standard--women can and do behave this way too.

There's nothing wrong with admitting that the "soul" gets involved for some of us during sex. I know sometimes, sex is strictly a physiological, physical thing, fun, a way to blow of steam. But sex is also, for me, a profoundly vulnerable moment, and, boy, I do not hold back in bed. My wide-openess to the other person assures that for me, having sex WILL change things for me. Knowing this about myself is a good thing for everyone involved.

Don't sweat it, @LadyLigeia, I'd have felt hurt too. I hate rejection. Chin up.
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  #28  
Old 01-17-2014, 04:03 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
Do you think maybe there is a feeling here that somehow by sleeping with the F*ckwits you are rewarding them for bad behaviour? Because I tell you one thing, that is how I felt by reading Scarlet's post, like well great, he didn't get rewarded that night the f*ckwit.

I don't want to sound precious about sex or anything and if you really want to sleep with someone and you don't care whether you see them again or not that is fine, but I just hate the idea of really disrespectful tossers being enabled in their behaviour.

Perhaps if we just stopped sleeping with the f*ckwits they will adapt their behaviour?

Or am I being too idealistic?
Idealism is a always good thing, Natja. But here's the thing for me - sex is not a reward for good behavior. I only dispense treats for my pets, not my lovers. Sex is a way to connect with other people - sometimes long term lovers, sometimes not, in my case. And sometimes that connection does not go well, they don't 'deserve' it in the end, we're not compatible, etc.

I firmly believe that people will receive what they give out. So the assholes who treat women disposably? Who fuck women and then say they are not good enough in some way? Maybe they end up alone. Maybe their relationships, if they manage to have any, will be shallow and of poor quality. We make our own hells. They are busily building theirs. They will get theirs. (Note we may never see the results.) Not fucking them doesn't fix their issues. Fucking them doesn't fix their issues. So do what one wants, what best fits one's emotional, spiritual, physical status.

Sadly, the Lysistrata option doesn't work except in the theater.
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  #29  
Old 01-17-2014, 05:09 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Originally Posted by scarletzinnia View Post
It isn't intrinsically better for anyone. But it's better for women like the OP, who was upset enough by this very thing to create this thread. It would have been better for my friend's girlfriend, who was terribly upset by her "idiot." And I know it's better for me personally.

Some of us are emotionally wired so that getting naked makes us more emotionally vulnerable. We don't want to go into sexual situations with people who will treat us callously or cruelly, because being naked and vulnerable with them will give them more power to hurt us than if all we'd done was talk.

Others, clearly some of the posters here, are not wired that way, which gives them the ability to shrug off a one-night stand gone wrong and not give it another thought. Good for you all, but we don't all have that ability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveBunny View Post
I don't think anybody here was "slut-shaming" in the least. If you're going to have sex on the first date then get upset because the person you did it with doesn't call again, why do it to yourself? Waiting a bit before having sex doesn't make you any less sex-positive or gender-equal. If anyone here is "slut-shaming," others can be said to be "prude-shaming."

The OP behaved appropriately given her beliefs at the moment about herself and the guy she was with. Maybe she misjudged the guy, or perhaps he overestimated his level of interest in her. Would waiting a bit before introducing sex have alleviated some of the OP's confusion and pain? Who knows. Maybe after a second date, she would've picked up cues that he wasn't looking for more than a fling, or she might have felt more comfortable expressing her expectations. Or maybe he's the kind of guy who can spend weeks seducing someone just to dump them. There's no double-standard--women can and do behave this way too.

There's nothing wrong with admitting that the "soul" gets involved for some of us during sex. I know sometimes, sex is strictly a physiological, physical thing, fun, a way to blow of steam. But sex is also, for me, a profoundly vulnerable moment, and, boy, I do not hold back in bed. My wide-openess to the other person assures that for me, having sex WILL change things for me. Knowing this about myself is a good thing for everyone involved.

Don't sweat it, @LadyLigeia, I'd have felt hurt too. I hate rejection. Chin up.
Ok, I realize you likely did not mean to do so, but I read this as saying that those of us who are ok with sex on the first date are emotionally not as evolved or as sensitive as those who don't fuck right away. Women who fuck sooner are not soul-less or value their soul less.

Can we (addressed to everyone) please stop with the false dichotomies? Women who don't fuck right away are not repressed. Women who do are not emotionally less sensitive.

I care about everyone I've had sex with. Even if I did not know their name. Does the level of caring change if they are a long term partner, a FWB, a one night stand? Yes, but I still care. I am still open and vulnerable. Sex makes everyone vulnerable.

I am so sorry, scarletzinnia, that your friend had a terrible experience with that asshole. She did not deserve that and his actions have no excuse.

But - and bear with me, this is going to be hard to take - she made a decision to let his opinion of her impact her life and her ideas about herself. He did not make her dress less sexy or not date for a while. She chose to do that to herself.

My woo-woo friends would say she 'gave away her power'. They have a point. We cannot control what others do or say. We cannot control other people's feelings nor can we really control what we feel. What we can control is our reactions and our actions. Your friend decided, however unconsciously, that an asshole's opinion of her mattered more than her own. She decided to let his self-loathing (for that is often where this behavior originates) affect her.

It is not easy to decide not to let other's opinions, actions, feelings impact how we feel about ourselves. It's hard. She has every right to feel upset, angry, used, and so on. I would have been terribly angry and hurt too! But it is possible to consciously decide not to change in response to other people's dysfunctional attitudes.

If waiting to have sex helps filters work better, then that makes sense. But it shouldn't substitute for developing good filters. I don't need a long time to figure out if someone is a decent person or someone I don't want to be around. Partly that's experience, partly it's because I listen to my inner voice, and partly it's because I have good filters.

And no one said to just suck it up and not feel hurt. Everyone hates being rejected. That's pretty much universal.
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  #30  
Old 01-17-2014, 05:28 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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I firmly believe that people will receive what they give out. So the assholes who treat women disposably? Who fuck women and then say they are not good enough in some way? Maybe they end up alone. Maybe their relationships, if they manage to have any, will be shallow and of poor quality. We make our own hells. They are busily building theirs. They will get theirs. (Note we may never see the results.) Not fucking them doesn't fix their issues. Fucking them doesn't fix their issues. So do what one wants, what best fits one's emotional, spiritual, physical status.
That is a great way to look at it, thank you.

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Sadly, the Lysistrata option doesn't work except in the theater.
Aaah, sometimes I forget what a joy it is to encounter cultured people....my friends are such chavs...thank you again
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