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  #101  
Old 12-30-2013, 06:40 PM
Atlantis Atlantis is offline
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All true Mags.
I went along with the deception with the lies with Prof because it suited me, it was getting one over on the rules and regulations, thrilling. Don't like it being done to me though. Hypocrisy.

I have never acted like this before. I will reread my blog myself. I haven't done before because I know I won't like what I read.

Prof made promises, rules being dropped, renegotiated, she broke them so he could break them and so on. I still have the texts, remember the conversations. I wanted to make it work so much that I compromised my integrity. I wanted a successful relationship, blinded myself to the the lack of follow through on the promises. It was fun, exciting, many new things, I loved it, the fun outweighed all else. Selfish.

Being distracted by a new and shiny thing is a flippant comment. It doesn't reflect the amount of thinking and processing that I have been doing. I am really looking hard at what I have done and been a party to. It's hard, it's painful.

I did stop communicating through the other account. It was never my intent to do that. They both reached out to me, spun the same lines they gave me before. My best attempts at finding out the truth were met with lies in person, they unintentionally came clean online.

I have good strong relationships with my family and friends. I am a good, involved, loving parent. I am excellent at my work. But when it comes to relationships with men, I lose direction and focus, I am easily swayed. I lose faith in my own opinions and thought processes.

I lost a lot of myself in my marriage and popped out the other side looking to find the old me through seeking validation and approval. That is so obvious in how I relate to Kip. "Tell me what to do?" He is like my ex. Forceful, domineering, I have returned to what is familiar and to some degree comfortable.
But unlike my ex, Kip has always been there when I needed him. Not turned down a request to talk and support when asked. The man has sat through me sobbing my heart out on more than one occasion, celebrated successes. Encouraged my Master's application, helped with assignments, helped out financially, dealt with my communication explorations and I have opened myself up to him more than I posted about. He is patient and kind with me.
I read about people on here moving past cheating, taking the opportunity to build communication. He has come clean about the future, not the past. I sense relief in him. I am leaning, learning, learning.

I am trying to look forward. Take note of what the past year has shown me. I have made mistakes, many.

I am still unclear of how and why to let a relationship go. Sometimes it is easy to see, sometimes it is not. Is what I have been experiencing kind of normal? Trying hard to make it work in some cases, not trying in others.
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Kip: 50s male, married.
Prof: 50s male.
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  #102  
Old 01-03-2014, 05:57 PM
Atlantis Atlantis is offline
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All fairly quiet here. I am might see Kip today, if not today then Monday for sure. He said he misses me which is unusual for him. I think it has been 2 weeks.
I got 4-5 inches cut off my hair yesterday. Just below shoulder length bob. It looks really good, I am will play with the color next, possibly something red again. It has been well over a year since I was red head.

Classes have been changed and deferred for a month. Luckily I called because they had scheduled 2 in one month, which would not be covered by student loans. I had already told them not to do that. The intern part requires 12 projects, I just couldn't do that with a regular classes on top and the 12 projects need to be tied into completed classes. I suppose some people can do that, but I know the classes alone are time demanding. So the next one will start in February. There is to much to do at work to start one right now.

I have an OKC date tonight. He texted me some bathroom chest pics, and asked that I reciprocate, I said I don't do that when haven't met. The conversation ended. I thought it was done. But he texted again still wanting to meet, if i can get a sitter I will go an hour or so.

I didn't hear from last week's meet again, which is fine, he was quite intense, some very strong opinions for a first date.

I am also keeping an eye on a few meet-up groups, and have been for quite a while. I never seem to be free on the right weekends, so will join a few that are kid friendly. Aim for the year is to work on casual social interactions, rather challenging for an INTJ.
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Kip: 50s male, married.
Prof: 50s male.
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  #103  
Old 01-04-2014, 10:36 PM
Atlantis Atlantis is offline
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I couldn't make it to the date with OKE, as I will call him. We might meet this afternoon or early evening. I am going out with friends for dinner, yeah, Saturday night out! I have pictured him in my head like the turtle from Finding Nemo, " as I was like duuuude" and " and I was like Whoah". That kind of thing, not too sure why, he looks vaguely like someone I met a while back who did speak like that. Even weirder is we did speak on the phone and he doesn't talk like that at all.

Shortly after I posted here yesterday, OKJ left a VM and a text saying he would like to see me again. OKJ is the intense guy. As I am not sure what time the kids are due back tomorrow,so we have set up a brunchy kind of thing.
4 hours later...A few nice texts. He enjoyed meeting, was aware that he dominated the conversation, even said he is glad he didn't scare me off, wanted to hear me speak more, is intrigued, and "kinda likes that you are tall, thin and firm." Oh, I am a tall!!!! Not sure about any of those adjectives to be honest But they are meant kindly, I think

Kip couldn't make it yesterday, he called whilst I was having a nap/passed out exhausted on the sofa. I took the kids out with my friend plus 3 dogs for a huge walk, came back, did a cooked lunch, cleaned and up and settled down to watch a movie. Zzzzzzzzz. He thought I had been crying and wanted me to tell him what was the matter. I said, no I was asleep, he said you can tell me anything, you know I love you dearly and I miss you. Wow, that was out of the blue. Two, "I miss yous" in as many days! I really had to reassure him that I was fine and was just waking up. I was heavily asleep, I should thank my lucky the stars the kids didn't decide to burn the flat down, but they were pooped too.

I have decided to fess up to reading the emails when I see him on Monday. It is not sitting right with me, either we can discuss it and continue to see each other, or we don't. He has told me about 2 OKC meets he has set up for next week, so some progress in that department.

Prof wants to meet and talk. Not too sure where I can squeeze that in. I am open to listening and hearing that he has made radical and sweeping changes to his agreements with S. As if.

Apart from resolutions to meet new people and not binge ( for the next 4 months) on Cadbury mini-eggs, (they are in the shops today! Last year was the 11th, year before the 4th, year before the 9th; yes, I keep a record) the big one is to not be a sneaky, lying, complicit cow. I will hear what he has to say, communication skills opportunity, but have sincerely doubt anything will be new or different. I am not walking that path again, I am still burning with shame on that one.
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Me: 40s female
Kip: 50s male, married.
Prof: 50s male.

Last edited by Atlantis; 01-04-2014 at 11:27 PM.
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  #104  
Old 01-07-2014, 02:22 AM
Atlantis Atlantis is offline
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I'm going to try and write what I remember and chew it over more later. I am not going to try and say what I think is real and what is more BS**t.

I met Kip today, he came round early, we had great sex and then went to lunch. My head wasn't so sure about how to speak up but my stomach was rotten and sour. Stomach won.
Me:I have something to tell you.
K:Am I going to like it?
Me:No. When you dropped your phone, it was still working for a while, your email was open.
K: What did you read?
Me:Your blah blah account.
K: How much did you read?
Me: All of it, twice. Tell me what is going on.

He was seeing K before me and up till maybe summer last year.4+ years. There was another fairly regular too, can't remember her name maybe C, a year or so. Many, many, online chats, photos, "hundreds" of coffee meets and lunches, web cam. Much of the "see you next time", was web cam. Apparently only me physically for the last 5 months or so.

My big question was, "Why didn't you tell me?" He kept going back to the the same three replies.
1) I didn't think you could handle it.
2) I didn't want to give you up or what we have.
3) I have cheated and lied my way through relationships for as long as I can remember, and that is how I handle them.

"Did the other girls know about me?". Reply, Yes, I don't really give a shit about them.( will revisit this statement later)

"Why do you want to know everything about what I am doing but not tell me about you?" Reply...I love to hear about the sex, I want to know you are happy and having fun.

"Why were you so down on my relationship with Prof?" Reply..Because he was building a relationship with you, he has time that I don't have, you did things together that we can't do. I didn't want you to get attached to him and leave me.

"But you like hearing about the sex?" Reply, Yes, that is different. That is fun and a turn on. You building a relationship without me isn't.

"Why all the lies when I have been open about you having other relationships too?" Reply... I didn't believe you could handle it. I meet so many other women, you wouldn't believe most of it is not physically sexual. It's mostly online, the questions, the pics, coffee or lunch and then it fizzles out.

"You said you had a relationship with a married woman for 2 years." Reply, We never actually met, it was all online.

"You said you had open relationships in the past." Reply, I lied... I was cheating on all of them. A couple of times girlfriends said I could, but when I did they got angry and we broke-up. I was happy in the relationships, the couple part, but needed different sex partners. I like variety. I thought you would do the same.( break up )

There was a lot of me going back to the "why lie" part and I got the same 3 answers each time.

There was quite a lot about me being different, opening up and sharing more than before. The stuff about his past was true, family, and other things I won't discuss here. Most of the stuff about relationships was heavily edited.

He had a similar childhood to me, in that we both were moved a lot as children. Big international moves and regularly. The result for me...I don't make friends easily, lots of surface interactions. We discussed this before, he and I, and me on here. He is the same, lots of surface relationships but none that really connect, he is afraid of the relationships ending, so he doesn't invest.

"In you own little messed up way, do you love me?" Reply, Yes, I love you, I love being with you, I love talking to you, I love your independence, I love your kind heart, I love that you put up with me, I love your mind, I love your incessant questions.

"How do you feel now I know?" Reply, Relieved, I thought you would bust my balls, be angry, cry. I know you are not like that, but experience with women makes me expect it anyway. He asked me if I cried when I read the emails, I said, no, I was stunned and surprised at the degree of lying even when I asked him flat out on multiple occasions. He said that lying and padding the truth is what he does. He works in sales so tells people what they want to hear, women included, me included.

He asked me how I could sit on the information for nearly a month and not say anything. I replied that I was thinking and processing, lost some weight over it, but mainly thinking and trying to give him the opportunity to come clean.

I will add more later, kids to get in the bath!
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Kip: 50s male, married.
Prof: 50s male.
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  #105  
Old 01-07-2014, 05:32 AM
Atlantis Atlantis is offline
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Side step for a few minutes.
OKE never called to set up Saturday night.
OKJ rescheduled Sunday to Wednesday, he has studying to do for a test this week.
I have been in contact with Prof. He texted me last Monday, was having a BDSM play party and wanted me to go. Errm no.
I saw him on Saturday, I asked him straight up about the need for more sex partners. I told him that I thought he had plenty of available sex partners (BDSM play group all willing and able )and sex, why would he want more? He said he is 54 and is scared he is running out sex things to do and try. He said he liked me cause I was open to trying pretty much anything, we had done lots of firsts together, when he thought he had run out of firsts and the sex was fantastic, he loved the emotional connection. I told him that he is not allowed emotional connections,( yes, bitchy) he said he wasn't expecting it but it happened anyway.
"Then why the need for more people?" He said he didn't think I would stick around for that long as I was looking for more than he could offer time wise, he knew I was meeting people and was interviewing to fill what he thought would soon be a vacancy.
I asked him what was left to try sexually, he said fmf and a couple swing. I said he has all these play partners and bisexual friends and S who must be willing to do those things and had in the past. He said he didn't want them to be the first, he wanted it to be me. Hence last weeks text. He hasn't given up. Interesting and confusing.

Back to Kip...
"What are you looking for with the 2 new women, Delta and Ivy?" ( Hey, I am getting better at the nicknames. ) Delta is less likely, Ivy is interested in learning about subbing and he wants to try that out with her. He talked about Ivy, very excited Compersion from me, I am genuinely happy that he is excited and looking forward to seeing what develops.

He said he isn't looking for emotional connections with anyone and that included me. He didn't really understand how it had got to relationship conversations and an emotional connection because usually at the first sign of that he cuts them off. He said he never buys presents, not birthdays, not Christmas for anyone he is seeing. Never gives them things, or money, doesn't listen to them cry over deaths of people and pets. Is not there for them on any level above sex and chit chat. He usually remains friendly with exes, continues to email and chat. He tells anyone he sleeps with that he is seeing other people and either they deal or don't. One poignant thing that stuck out with me was that once the sex starts he doesn't take them out to eat anymore, it is sex and then leaves.

For the first few months we were seeing each other it was the same. Sex then leave, then it was sex and lunch, then it was sex and tea and chatting in bed, then sex and sleeping and holding, then tea or lunch. I didn't ask for it. I offered tea of course but he always refused. One day he accepted, maybe 4-5 months into it. Over the past few months he has said that holding and cuddling is his favorite part of meeting, it is not just sex for him anymore.

So back to the "why lie to me" question. Same responses as above, he doesn't want to lose me. Enjoys that we have gone further and deeper, wants to keep that but still enjoy the online piece and explore dom and subbing. Also, same as Prof, he knew I was looking for someone with more time and literally said he is interviewing for the perceived future vacancy. He was only doing online sex and coffee dates for the past 5 months up until I started meeting rugby guy, then he started looking for a replacement sex partner in earnest

He admitted to being insecure, worried that he would lose me and worried that he never worried about losing anyone before. He liked, but was scared by, the emotional connection part and reiterated that the connection and communication we had had not existed with anyone before. First sign of it and off he went. He brought the tennis accident and the trip to the ER, and again said he wouldn't have done that for anyone else.

"What about the wife, isn't that an active open relationship, you are not cheating on her, she knows, right?" Reply, yes, she knows, the marriage is crumbling, she doesn't like the amount of online that he does, know about some, not all of the meets. The marriage was open from the start but she isn't happy about it and there is resentment on both sides. She thought he would give up the "side dishes". They have only been married 5 years.

As he was leaving he said, I want to take you to play tennis soon. He gave me his old bag and raquet today. His idea of old and mine are apparently about a whole lot of holes and dirt different, the stuff is like new. So, he wants to take me out and still do hotel night.

He was smiling, he looked happy and relieved.

Interesting, lots to think about. One thing that sticks out is he and Prof both were/ are acting from a place of fear of loss. Both said they were "interviewing for replacements", as they were worried I was going to leave them. They both have primary relationships, I am the side dish. Why the fear? Neither of them have has had a shortage of willing partners. Is it all baloney? Some it if baloney? Are they telling me what they think I want to hear?
If nothing else, it is a steep communication learning curve for me. I am glad I didn't just bail and am working through it. It might still all end up in break-up. My brain is fried, I need to watch some tv and veg out.
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Kip: 50s male, married.
Prof: 50s male.
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  #106  
Old 01-07-2014, 04:22 PM
Nox Nox is offline
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It's not all baloney. I'm not even sure it's partial baloney. I would love to get in their head as Susan is the same way. Every so often she'll get it in her head that I don't want her any more and instead of trying to get closer, she backs off and spends time with anyone but me.

I don't get it. It's counter intuitive to anything I think or feel. But the pattern is there. If you figure it out, please, let me know
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Wife: Kay - mono female - married 17 years
LDR girlfriend: Susan - poly female - 3 year relationship
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  #107  
Old 01-08-2014, 05:30 PM
Atlantis Atlantis is offline
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I have no answers Dave.

I am not sure how I got into this position. Kip was only supposed to be fun and frolic, he made that clear from the start, not looking for anything more. It suited me at the time and in a way still does. I am not looking to step onto the relationship escalator, I don't want a primary style relationship, but I do want someone who is more available time wise than either Kip or Prof and I have always been honest about that.

Prof, oddly enough, was more about making promises and not delivering than Kip was.

At this point, Kip and I are kind of back to normal, he is happily chatting away about Delta and Ivy, not so happy that I have 2 OKC dates set up. I always suspected he was jealous and it is much easier to see now he has admitted to it. This is new territory for him, truly believing that I am happy for him exploring and dating.
He is also more possessive than I thought. I am realizing that he takes the Dom/Sub dynamic further into real life. He said brought up the 3way experience again and said he didn't like that Prof left marks, cause I was his sub, didn't like seeing Prof Dom me, didn't want me calling anyone else Master. It all came out on Monday.
I think he likes that he can share what is going on with his sex life. I don't need to know everything he is doing, just when it looks like sex is involved and he is being safe. Ivy and Delta are both insisting on an STD paper exchange. Good for them.
I have set up one relationship rule, condoms, always. I am not likely to fluid bond with anyone in the near future. He doesn't want to give that up either.
I think he said, and I could be wrong, that he has had 4-5 sex partners in the year or so that he has known me and at least 2 of them were from before he met me. He is very not into one night stands and usually sees them for a while. The end point comes when they want more, exclusivity or time.
It is kind of comforting to know that he saw K for 4 years, backs-up the point that he is not sleeping with anyone at anytime.

Prof is sending texts, he is out of town till the weekend. I have replied but not initiated.

During the Kip lunch I couldn't actually remember why I had broken up with Prof. Kip reminded me, "rent-a-hole."
I do not hold onto anger or upset for very long. My Ex-H used to say that he could do whatever he liked cause I would be annoyed for a day or 2 and then forget about it. Rinse and repeat.

I have an OKC meet this morning. He is 12 years younger, OKPea. I am trying to be a bit more open to who I meet. As I am not looking for a life partner I shouldn't restrict myself to the older, has kids, age set.

OKJay didn't call last night, I don't know if we are still on for tonight, I am assuming so.
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Kip: 50s male, married.
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  #108  
Old 01-08-2014, 09:33 PM
Atlantis Atlantis is offline
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OKPea!!!!
Crickey, but he's hot.
When I saw him walking towards me, I was thinking, no-way he's ripped and gorgeous, and then what would he want with a 40+ year old! Apart from the obvious
He smelled soooooo good. We had as nearly much fun as you can have whilst still remaining fully clothed. Damn me and my 3 date rule, second date for sure I want to get naked.
We have a tennis date for Saturday. And I will probably see him again tonight. Did I say he was hot? Wow, so hot. He picked me up multiple times and carried me around, totally buff. No "you're tall" comment. A very large plus in my book. And he made me a cup of tea.
Didn't have the STD talk. But he is open to open relationships, I didn't mention the word poly. He is currently single, wants a partnery type thing, go out, do things, but remain independent. I told him that I see someone else and he was fine with that.
What is the word for the week? Twitterpated? I couldn't tell you the last time I met someone and was drooling over them in the first 30 seconds.
Smart, trilingual, employed, apartment (clean), car, doesn't live with his mother.
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Kip: 50s male, married.
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  #109  
Old 01-10-2014, 05:33 AM
Atlantis Atlantis is offline
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I reread my blog. Mainly looking for things to fuel my anger but ended up with quite the opposite. Despite the lying, and that is a big despite, Kip has been very good to me. Reliable, available, supportive.
I was stewing all day over the lying and thinking that I couldn't get over it. I am mourning the loss of what the closeness I thought was there and was indeed being shown, it wasn't all my imagination.He keeps such a large part of himself closed away. He is very insecure, all the stuff about controlling me and who I dated. Jealous, I read back the section about him wanting to be my primary and priority, that has been going on for a long time. Funny coming from someone who is having his ego stroked from multiple sources.
He is Iming now about his date with Ivy tomorrow, they are meeting and probably will play. I think that is all I want to know, I have to let go of the curiosity part. It is enough to know that they will play safely.
I have to let go of the inquisitiveness if I am going to continue with multiple relationships, same idea would apply to mono ones. Ask fewer questions, trust more. That doesn't make sense. How about keeping out of other people's relationship business and keeping my mouth closed more? Just sex, no connection. Sounding a touch bitter there. Sad, I am sad. My mental picture of what I thought I meant to Kip is blurred, what was real, what is real. It's ass backwards, we started open, isn't that the hard part? We didn't have to negotiate through that. He couldn't accept that I was sincere. I am going to step back for a bit and let things settle.
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  #110  
Old 01-11-2014, 03:58 AM
Atlantis Atlantis is offline
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He had a fun playdate with Ivy. That's all I want to know. He wants to give the details, I don't really care.
I was always happy to hear about Yo and Prof's meets and dates. We had some fun chats about that. But I am still stuck on Monday's revelations and not feeling terribly compersiony right now.
I am losing interest in trying to stick it out. But I should try, right? Isn't this the tough part? This is what I am supposed to communicate through? Like dealing with an addict, you find out, they spill their guts and you work with it. As Mags said I tend to walk away from relationships. I did, however, really try with my marriage, and I mean really try. From a compulsive drinker to a compulsive liar, nice one Atlantis
I also feel that if I give up then I have indeed proven to him that he was right in not saying anything. I am not sure he would get the difference between it's not the other partners, it's the lying.

Change the subject. I think I might be meeting OKPea over the weekend. Texts were a bit vague, so maybe he will not firm anything up. The ball is in his court, I said I am fairly free, he said he will check his schedule. He works in a restaurant, so not really free in the evenings.

Prof texted, he wants to meet.

I went out with a friend tonight to hear her friend play Irish music. It was very fun. A town over has an kind of open art night once a month. Shops and stores hang art and the museum/gallery is open and free. There is usually music too. So we will do that next month. I am working on the socializing thing and will endeavour to engage in random chit chat with at least 2 strangers ( not in the dating sense) Challenge!
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