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  #21  
Old 12-25-2013, 09:05 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Heh, I was combining my post with london's post. The bottom line is, TL/DR = Too Long, Didn't Read. And that's short enough that you can read it.

Hope things work out well enough in the long run.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #22  
Old 12-25-2013, 09:58 PM
FarAwayLover FarAwayLover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
The bottom line is, TL/DR = Too Long, Didn't Read. And that's short enough that you can read it.

Hope things work out well enough in the long run.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
OK, I get it!

I was thinking the TL was something like Tough Love…

May I assume that was a comment on the length of _your_ post?

I read _everything_!

FAL
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  #23  
Old 12-25-2013, 10:13 PM
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Right, TL/DR is a type of mea culpa admitting I rambled on longer than I had planned, thus realizing I ought to recap with a quick summary. The OP gets to post as long as necessary.

Always happy to help out with popular interwebz abbreviations.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #24  
Old 01-02-2014, 02:06 AM
FarAwayLover FarAwayLover is offline
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Default JP using work e-mail and "secrecy"

Hi! I'm going to respond to some comments that have been made earlier.

From 12/6, from Galagirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
I find it interesting he has to email from work and keep that hidden
JP has what both B and I think is a screwy way of handling e-mail. He only has the one account - his account at work. No personal account of his own. I guess this is what happens to some folks who have been in one job forever. I'm pretty sure I didn't get a personal e-mail account of my own until I got laid off from an 11-year job in 2000. If he writes from home, he uses his wife's account. So, during the week, he wrote from work. The weekend writing started the second weekend. During the weekends, he wrote from home.

From 11/27, from pullman
Quote:
Originally Posted by pulliman View Post
JP does deserve some blame for not quickly saying "Hey, I've found Person-From-My-Past-X, let me tell you about her!" and having A respond to it honestly and deeply and in the moment. Waiting did make it worse. To her, it was an affair. That's her baggage to claim, open up, and air out, but it's his place in a marriage to be considerate and respectful and compassionate. He wasn't but he got around to it soon enough. I think your reading about poly helped him, because it got you to insist on an honesty that is important.
From 11/27, from Norwegianpoly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwegianpoly View Post
It don't totally see the accusations about "secrecry". He told his wife the moment he realized it was something more than friendship going on, what more can anyone do? Especially when they do not expect polyamory.
I did tell B that I go this LinkedIn invitation and followup e-mail from JP when the first e-mail appeared. Didn't tell him right away that we were writing back and forth. Before the first week was over, I told JP that I felt like cheating on B to even be writing. He didn't get it at first. Nothing we are doing could possibly be construed as cheating, there's no way we could ever be physical lovers again, we're both committed to our spouses, yada yada yada. Told him it was _emotional_, that I was spending entirely too much time thinking about him and what to write next. OK, that makes sense. Ditto. I'll tell A and you tell B. Not sure exactly what he told A, but I was told that she was like "whatever". So he told her _something_, but didn't keep updating her.

It took me a couple more days to tell B, since I was trying to find a good time, He seemed OK with it. As time went on, he was viewing it as a soap opera, wondering what the next installment would be, but seeing himself as as spectator. He could tell I was having a good time.

From what I can tell from JP's description, A can be set off quite easily. She's a redhead, and he says there was a time when a crying baby would drive her nuts. They used to have explosive disagreements early in the marriage - not so much lately. But with that history, he kept being reluctant to tell A much of what was going on. He kept on being afraid she would lose it. A self-fulfilling prophecy, but I don't know if there was a way to avoid it.

Some of this was a sin of omission. She apparently got it into her head that the only e-mail correspondence was what was going through her home account. Both JP and I would refer to things we'd said in other messages, so if one bothered to read the messages, you would realize that something was missing. But I gather she was trusting and didn't feel the need to to read the messages.
-------------
Thanks for all the support! In the meantime, I've joined http://polyboston.org/ and have done _lots_ of reading here!

FAL
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  #25  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:59 AM
FarAwayLover FarAwayLover is offline
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Smile Not sure what this means

Got another e-mail today form JP. Sent from work (the only account he has, as I explained in the previous post), but cc'ing A's account.

Said they were almost through with counseling, whatever that means - something like one more session. And then he thanked me for the quarters, and other general chitchat.

I've responded in kind. I'll be curious to see what happens next. B said he didn't think JP had disappeared forever. But the stories I've been reading on this forum made me think that perhaps chances were pretty slim, given A's perception of cheating, and that cheating seems to rarely be the beginning of something that works out. I'm frankly surprised that after 2 months they're just about done with counseling.

FAL

--------------------------------

M - Me female, 59 - _trying_ to figure out if I'm poly
B - 56 - my husband for over 34 years
JP - 58 - my high school boyfriend, newly appeared in the picture after 38 years; very long distance; haven't actually seen him
A - 65? - JP's wife of over 30 years
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  #26  
Old 01-07-2014, 05:40 AM
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That does seem to be an awfully small amount of counseling, given the seriousness of the situation.

As for cheating situations transitioning into poly, that can and does happen. But given how upset A has been about the whole thing, I don't suppose I'd bet on it.
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  #27  
Old 01-08-2014, 11:41 PM
FarAwayLover FarAwayLover is offline
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Unhappy JP's gone

JP's gone. That's how I put it to B, anyway.

After Monday's message and response (both cc'd to A), I got an e-mail yesterday (Tuesday) saying that all communication needed to stop again. That A was furious that he had broken their agreement to not be in contact with me. He felt that the content was innocuous and that he had done nothing wrong.

So I sent a relatively long reply talking about the kind of digging and communication work I thought they still need to do, said it was hard work and he has to decide if it's worth it, and outlining that if the agreement is to not have contact, then yeah, any contact is breaking the agreement. It's a smaller (it seems to me, anyway) version of the stuff I've read on this site about agreements to be open, then inform when it's progressing to, say, kissing and then again when sex is contemplated. Of course, depending on tne agreement. Saying that he could negotiate what has to happen for her to be OK with any contact - seeing everything beforehand?, for example. No contact for 2 months and then she'll think about it? Whatever. And what is it about me that's so threatening? So I've been learning from this site. And I think I expressed some impatience - what the heck have you two been _working_ on in those counseling sessions, anyway?

On my way out after sending my message, I had this feeling of - this is too much drama for me. I know - there are others here who told me to get out two months ago. And all I've been doing is writing when addressed. B thinks I've been doing the right thing, in trying to get the dynamics to change.

I don't think I would go through all this for a random new person I'd met. The difference is that we have a lot of history. It feels like the high school relationship referred to here: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61799

So late last night I read the message where JP replied and said he thought is was ridiculous, but he was going to respect his wife's wishes and stop all communication. She scheduled an emergency session with their counselor because he violated their agreement. He thinks she's paranoid concerning me. And that if he's ever allowed to start communication again, it'll have to be as friends. I know I read somewhere on this site that it can take a year or more for a spouse to get used to the idea of polyamory. I wonder how long it could take to just become accepting of the fact of my existence? Being at least friends would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath for _any_ thing to happen again.

B's been very supportive, and he thinks I'm overly pessimistic. He also talked about a 2-year old testing limits as a description of what JP sending e-mail under these circumstances meant. And he made some reference to the sponsors of the soap opera. Huh? Well, he said, the characters in the soap opera never know about the sponsors.

I can't believe they're almost finished with counseling. There's so much shit that's still there.

Thanks for listening. I just had to vent.

FAL

--------------------------------

M - Me female, 59 - _trying_ to figure out if I'm poly
B - 56 - my husband for over 34 years
JP - 58 - my high school boyfriend, newly appeared in the picture after 38 years; very long distance; haven't actually seen him
A - 65? - JP's wife of over 30 years
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  #28  
Old 01-09-2014, 10:44 PM
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Best you can do is wait for JP to contact you again, if/when he does. But by wait I don't mean hold your breath. Enjoy your life with B and try not to worry about a distant situation over which you've no say. It'd be great if JP and A got some more counseling, but it sounds to me like she's calling the shots.

Sorry about the setback.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #29  
Old 01-10-2014, 04:44 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I hope you feel better for the vent.

Quote:
I know - there are others here who told me to get out two months ago. And all I've been doing is writing when addressed.
You chose to go there in your behavior. It did not serve you well -- you reaped new upsets.

It is what is. *shrug* now you get to pick new behavior.

Quote:
B thinks I've been doing the right thing, in trying to get the dynamics to change.
I disagree. YOU cannot get the dynamics to change with a broken couple. They are in charge of their behavior, not you.

Quote:
And what is it about me that's so threatening?
Let me lift up one of your other quotes in response:

Quote:
I don't think I would go through all this for a random new person I'd met. The difference is that we have a lot of history.
Maybe it is same for her. She wouldn't go through all this hooha if you were someone without a lot of history with him. Prob still some hooha, since their dynamic is broken sounding... but not as high as with you out of the picture.

Because you (or his idea of you) are one influence, it's easier for her to blame you for his poor behavior. That if you (or his idealized idea of you in his head) did not exist, he would not behave poorly toward her. But really? It's him choosing his behavior, and he is choosing poor behavior toward her.

1) He could stop breaking agreements! It erodes trust in his word.

2) He could not make agreements he does not intend to keep in the first place!
She may have to to process and own her disappointment that he does not agree to something she wants. But he could be HONEST in his behavior toward her.
3) If there are issues in his marriage, he could attend to them rather than seeking escapism in you or his idea of you.

When he breaks his agreements and you respond with chit chat rather than "You have agreements to keep. Please keep them or work to change them. Please do not contact me at this time so you can attend to the problems in your marriage with your full attention" type BRIEF responses?

You are helping him to KEEP ON breaking his agreements. You are not helping him to keep them or change them. That part IS your behavior.

Because you are correct about your behavior and his behavior toward the wife:

Quote:
It's a smaller (it seems to me, anyway) version of the stuff I've read on this site about agreements to be open, then inform when it's progressing to, say, kissing and then again when sex is contemplated.
When you take up with a person who is to be a hinge, you could be generous with their time, and you could help them to meet their other agreements, not help them to break them.

For sake of harmony in the greater polyship, for sake of not putting the hinge "in the middle" and for sake of wanting same behavior back in return when it is your time with the hinge.
  • Could call it a life lesson for yourself.
  • Could let it go so you can be free of new upsets.
  • Could obey your own limit -- "this is too much drama."

Again, I hope you feel better for the vent. But yeah... it just is what it is here, and the sooner you accept it, the sooner YOU are better off. Whatever it is they are doing/not doing with themselves over THERE.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 01-10-2014 at 11:42 AM.
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  #30  
Old 01-10-2014, 07:02 AM
FarAwayLover FarAwayLover is offline
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Hi GalaGirl,

Thanks for the comments.

You always have sensible thoughts on these issues. There's a lot to process there for me.

One thing -

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post

...

When he breaks his agreements and you respond with chit chat rather than "You have agreements to keep. Please keep them or work to change them. Please do not contact me at this time so you can attend to the problems in your marriage with your full attention" type BRIEF responses?

You are helping him to KEEP ON breaking his agreements. You are not helping him to keep them or change them. That part IS your behavior.

...

Galagirl
OK. I can see that.

This last time, I didn't know that they still had an agreement to that effect. In particular, since he was cc'ing her e-mail address. I assumed (erroneously) that she was now OK with some types of communication, of which that e-mail was one.

When JP wrote the next day and told me she was furious over the broken agreement, I did point him back in the direction of
1) it doesn't matter if you think it's innocuous - no means no.
and
2) you two have more work to do.

Next time (assuming there _is_ a next time), should I ask - what is your current agreement about communication with me?

JP's last message to me said that if communication is allowed to start up again, that A is off limits. It'll be interesting to try and phrase any question about agreements without mentioning her.

Again, thanks for your insights. This is all new to me.

FAL

--------------------------------

M - Me female, 59 - _trying_ to figure out if I'm poly
B - 56 - my husband for over 34 years
JP - 58 - my high school boyfriend, newly appeared in the picture after 38 years; very long distance; haven't actually seen him
A - 65? - JP's wife of over 30 years
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