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  #11  
Old 01-09-2014, 06:47 PM
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YouAreHere YouAreHere is offline
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Originally Posted by CuriouslyPoly View Post
I think V-type polyamorous relationships are a misnomer...it's just part of a chain of open relationships.
Well, they can be. They don't have to be.
I believe there are folks on this board for whom there is a "hinge" and two "arms" and that's it - it's a "closed" or "poly-fi" vee. A vee can be open as well. The open/closed nature of the relationship isn't dependent on its structure.

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Originally Posted by CuriouslyPoly View Post
Well it's assumed and it's pretty straightforward, well at least for me and a lot of people. Plus it can go the same for men...there are men who are also bisexual.
Sure, but the thing about absolutes is that one piece of evidence to the contrary throws the whole statement out the window. Yes, many people in poly relationships are bi- or pan-sexual, but many aren't. Same as in monogamous relationships.
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Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids, two cats, one house with many projects.
Chops: My partner of ~3 years. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

My navel-gazing blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
My slightly more polished blog (external): From Baltic to Boardwalk
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  #12  
Old 01-09-2014, 07:39 PM
Nadya Nadya is offline
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Why only the two options of open OR poly?

Ethical non-monogamy comes in all sizes and shapes. It can be

open
closed
polyamorous
swinging
casual sex
non-sexual emotional relationships
(something else I cannot think of?)

AND it can be any combination of these, really.

CuriouslyPoly, it would be interesting to hear your definition of "really poly".

Myself and my relationships, for example:
I am a hinge of a vee between my husband CJ and my OSO Mark. This makes me poly, and the whole configuration polyamorous. I am committed and long-term with both of them, a lot of love involved. At the moment I am not looking for more partners, reached my polysaturation point.

Mark chooses to be mono, meaning he does not want any romantic or sexual involvement with anyone else than me. CJ is open and looking for another long-term relationship. Me and CJ also occasionally engage in casual threesome sex with a male friend of ours.

So, in your mind we are not "really poly"? I mean, you can have all the definitions you want... I'd be interested to know where me and my relationships fail to fit your definition of poly.

OR... what about a closed poly-fi vee? Is that "really poly"?
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  #13  
Old 01-09-2014, 07:55 PM
PolyinPractice PolyinPractice is offline
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Originally Posted by CuriouslyPoly View Post
In my opinion, V-types are probably a chain of open relationships and not really poly ones. Fine, some of you can call them networks to encompass the whole chain of people involved, but I think V-type polyamorous relationships are a misnomer...it's just part of a chain of open relationships.
It's funny, I kind of struggle with the concept of open relationship vs. poly. It's hard, because poly is not really well known. So people come up with their own ideas of what "poly" is. To me, this is the difference: "Open" is when you have a couple who is allowed to date/play outside the relationship. "Poly" is when you start truly building and maintaining two ore more significant relationships. So long as it's really centered around the couple, it's not really poly, in my mind.

But either (open and poly) could be found in BOTH structures (integrated, triad types or chains of vees). For example, if my boyfriend and I both date this other girl, but she doesn't really get a say in the relationship, and I'm the primary and she isn't, well, that's open to me. Not poly. On the other hand, if my boyfriend has a serious girlfriend and I have a serious boyfriend (two "vees" or an "N"), and both of us are allowed to pursue the relationship to its fullest (perhaps she and I end up both meaning the same to him, and her needs matter just as much as mine), then that's poly. My boyfriend might date others...his girlfriend might date others, casually...in which case, I guess they are in both poly and open relationships. But I wouldn't consider my boyfriend and I to be in an "open" relationship. I'd consider us to be poly.

Does that make sense?
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  #14  
Old 01-09-2014, 07:58 PM
london london is offline
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I wish I could articulate this better than I'm going to but......

People often want to make polyamory as close to monogamy as possible in some attempt to correct all the things that are morally wrong about it. Things like having sex with someone who isn't your partner in an exclusive, loving, committed relationship. These people know they desire having multiple relationships, or their partner desires having multiple relationships, but the only way they feel this can be done the "right way" is if everyone is involved with each other and the situation replicates a monogamous relationship of the traditional variety.

People who feel this way believe that monogamy is the ideal. They believe that a monogamous template for relationships is the only way to achieve "real" commitment. The absence of monogamy inherently negates commitment, in their mind, and they strive to compensate for that imagined deficit in their polyamorous relationships with "tools" such as couple privilege, unicorn hunting, controlling their partner's relationships, sex negativity and just about everything else I hate about polyamory.

/rant
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  #15  
Old 01-09-2014, 08:12 PM
PolyinPractice PolyinPractice is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
I wish I could articulate this better than I'm going to but......

People often want to make polyamory as close to monogamy as possible in some attempt to correct all the things that are morally wrong about it. Things like having sex with someone who isn't your partner in an exclusive, loving, committed relationship. These people know they desire having multiple relationships, or their partner desires having multiple relationships, but the only way they feel this can be done the "right way" is if everyone is involved with each other and the situation replicates a monogamous relationship of the traditional variety.

People who feel this way believe that monogamy is the ideal. They believe that a monogamous template for relationships is the only way to achieve "real" commitment. The absence of monogamy inherently negates commitment, in their mind, and they strive to compensate for that imagined deficit in their polyamorous relationships with "tools" such as couple privilege, unicorn hunting, controlling their partner's relationships, sex negativity and just about everything else I hate about polyamory.

/rant
See, you're making as many false assumptions as the OP here. I often think that my style of poly closely resembles monogamy, but it's not an attempt to "fix" monogamy. It's simply the way it's fallen into place for me, due to all sorts of things. If I tried to do the network type poly...and have two completely isolated relationships...I'd end up having both fall apart :-p Being able to have all partners get along and support each other is very important to me. I also like a lot of what is "traditional" in relationships, i.e. a ring, commitment ceremony, marriage if possible, living close together, building our lives together, children, etc.

Doesn't mean I secretly wish my partners were single and committed solely to me. Just means I've found something in between that works for me.
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  #16  
Old 01-09-2014, 08:16 PM
london london is offline
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Polyamory itself is under the umbrella of consensual non monogamy. Consensual non monogamy involves people who have multiple sexual and/or loving relationships with the knowledge and enthusiastic consent of all involved.

I think a polyamorous individual is one who is able and desires to manage multiple romantic relationships at the same time.

Polyamory as a relationship style is where a person is open to developing multiple loving relationships at the same time. They may not currently be in multiple, loving relationships but there is the potential for them to develop a relationship of that level of commitment and intimacy if the chance arises.

People who are not open to having more than one loving relationship and wish to restrict the emotional and/or romantic commitment outside a primary relationship are not polyamorous, because they aren't open to maintaining multiple loving relationships. Some swinger, for example, set these rigid boundaries.

But you don't get to say what relationships are loving, or who is or isn't open to multiple loving relationships unless you are in those relationships. If someone self identifies to restricting themselves to one "proper" relationship but will have sex with others, sure, say that doesn't fit the poly definition of multiple loving relationships. But if someone practicing solo poly tells you that they have a number of partners, some sexual, some loving, some both, all separate, you don't get to say that isn't polyamory because it doesn't reflect the traditional relationship model where you believe true love can only exist.
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2014, 08:18 PM
london london is offline
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Originally Posted by PolyinPractice View Post
See, you're making as many false assumptions as the OP here. I often think that my style of poly closely resembles monogamy, but it's not an attempt to "fix" monogamy. It's simply the way it's fallen into place for me, due to all sorts of things. If I tried to do the network type poly...and have two completely isolated relationships...I'd end up having both fall apart :-p Being able to have all partners get along and support each other is very important to me. I also like a lot of what is "traditional" in relationships, i.e. a ring, commitment ceremony, marriage if possible, living close together, building our lives together, children, etc.

Doesn't mean I secretly wish my partners were single and committed solely to me. Just means I've found something in between that works for me.
Dude, I've never heard you say that anything other than the type of model you have is not polyamory because it's just people having endless strings of seperate relationships or whatever. I'm not saying that people shouldn't practice whatever relationship style suits them, you just don't get to remove someone's perfectly acceptable poly label because they don't do the same as you.

Imagine telling everyone in a closed triad or quad that they had to use the term monogamish because they aren't open to new relationships at all times like proper poly folk. It would be ridiculous. Regardless of my beliefs on closed relationships, a healthy triad or quad involves the people in them maintaining more than one loving relationship. That's polyamory.

Last edited by london; 01-09-2014 at 08:24 PM.
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2014, 08:18 PM
CuriouslyPoly CuriouslyPoly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
Why only the two options of open OR poly?

CuriouslyPoly, it would be interesting to hear your definition of "really poly".
Polyfidelity or polyexclusive or polyfaithful are the terms that makes sense to me. Add close, strictly non-sexual friendships to the mix and that's how I define poly.

I assume that open relationships have little to no boundaries in terms of intimate relationships while polyamorous relationships do. Again, how can one track a "polyamorous" relationship consistently over time when there's multiple chains of relationships that can develop? To me, if some think, claim, or feel that polyamorous relationships shouldn't have limits in terms of relationships...that's not being honest. Fine, people can choose to be open and not limit themselves to one person, but claiming to be in a polyamorous relationship is a misnomer...they are open or single while engaging in casual relationships.

I can sincerely care and be happy for someone, but to me that's just me being a close friend to someone if I'm not romantically and/or sexually interested in that person. Even if I happen to develop feelings on one of my close friends, but it's unrequited then I would eventually discard my feelings and just be happy being close friends.

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Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
OR... what about a closed poly-fi vee? Is that "really poly"?
Yeah, that makes sense to me. One is committed to poly, one is committed to poly, and poly is committed to both. But yeah, to me it's better to call it polyexclusive.

Last edited by CuriouslyPoly; 01-09-2014 at 08:33 PM.
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2014, 08:28 PM
london london is offline
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Why do you need to track what other people are doing?

Just track your own relationships. Sure, share things with your partners. Make sure you gain informed consent for things that will affect them, let them know about significant shifts in dynamics, but track? No.
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  #20  
Old 01-09-2014, 08:41 PM
CuriouslyPoly CuriouslyPoly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
Why do you need to track what other people are doing?
Hahaha it's because I care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
Just track your own relationships. Sure, share things with your partners. Make sure you gain informed consent for things that will affect them, let them know about significant shifts in dynamics.
You're right, and things won't be messy if everyone involved is sincerely connected.
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