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  #11  
Old 12-30-2013, 01:17 PM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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Originally Posted by LloydN View Post
I actually suggested to beth we end it, or I go find another partner that will meet my needs. She wouldn't accept that. She says she needs both of us, that Mark and I together fill her relationship needs and access different parts of her.
Um yeah, now Beth needs her ass kicked. .

There is more to this relationship than Beth getting her needs met. There are Mark's needs (although at this point that is between them) and there are your needs as well. It would be a good exercise to determine what your needs are, which ones she is meeting, and which ones she is not. Then inform her. She can choose to address those unmet needs in an authentic way or she may come to the conclusion that she is unwilling or incapable. If it is the latter, then you have every right to get those unmet needs fulfilled elsewhere - whether it means including some one new in your poly configuration (although I beg you not to do this until you have your shit sorted - doing it before the shit is sorted is an easy way to hurt yet another person), or breaking up with Beth and starting anew.

While it does make one feel wanted to be needed as when Beth stated she needs you both, you are not a toy she can play with as the mood and situation permits. She needs to ask herself what it would feel like to be in your shoes. Heck you could ask her if she thinks she would be happy with your personal situation.

Good luck to you!
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  #12  
Old 12-30-2013, 03:39 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by LloydN View Post
All was going mostly well. Except I had isolated myself from most of my community. I didn't have any support. I was struggling with being alone since Beth and Mark lived with each other.
You lied and cheated endlessly to a number of people, you threw your wife under a bus, you risked your wife's health, and you have no support. I'm having a hard time working up any sympathy. I suppose that's because I'm not even trying.

I have to agree with a previous response: sounds to me like you're more interested in hurting Beth's marriage. Honesty has not exactly been at the top of your list of priorities, so I, too, kind of doubt it's out of any noble desire for virtue.
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  #13  
Old 12-30-2013, 03:41 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by bookbug View Post

There is more to this relationship than Beth getting her needs met.
I can't even get past this sentence. THANK YOU for saying it. There is way too much emphasis in our current society on 'getting my needs met.' The world would be a better place if we all simply refused to say that phrase for just one year, and tried working on meeting other people's needs for a little bit.
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2013, 03:45 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is online now
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I am glad you are seeking counseling as you heal from the fundie brainwashing! That, to me, is the crux of the matter. As you well know now, that kind of christianity does lead to a lot of hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance. Parroting the fundie line of Christ and love and monogamy, and then, as you did, cheating and lying on the side. Til you break down from your soul being rotted.

Read francescasc's blog here, she's going thru it from the other end. Her h was the lying cheater, he said he was still Christian after she left the church, turns out he was paying for whores and strippers the whole time.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51858

I know lots of poly people start out with a cheating scenario and manage somehow to salvage things and make it work with the partner they cheated with, as well as the person they cheated on. It can take years to heal and renegotiate, and sometimes (as in Loving Radiance's case) there is lingering resentment from the spouse despite years of actions taken by the cheater to rebuild trust.

So, not saying you can't salvage things with your Beth, by coming clean 100% with her new husband, but are you willing to put in the work? It's lovely to be loved and needed, but how much are you willing to go through to come out as her partner and be accepted by Mark and their families?
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  #15  
Old 12-30-2013, 04:04 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is online now
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Oh yeah, and I wanted to add, seems to me your desire to be Beth's husband, instead of Mark being her husband, is a holdover from your fundie/mono brainwashing as well. Competing males! Rawr! It's what the patriarchy is all about.

Mark doesn't own Beth, despite now being married to her. You wouldn't own her if she was your wife, and she wouldn't own you.

Wives as chattel was the norm back when the Bible was written. Not now. Especially not if Beth is insisting on an open relationship with Mark-- but even if they were mono. Marriage is convenient, it gets you social recognition in many ways, and legal benefits as well, but as for the spouses, other issues can and should be negotiated as needed. Freedom to come and go, see friends separately, pursue hobbies separately, even have lovers, it's all up to you!
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miss pixi, 37
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  #16  
Old 01-01-2014, 07:38 PM
LloydN LloydN is offline
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Wow. I should've posted on this forum months ago. The depth of the responses are challenging, encouraging, infuriating... but all ultimately supportive. Thank you.

What amazes me is the level of honesty here. That's a big thing my church lacked... They may give you an honest answer, but it's contingent on you changing your life to conform to a model that doesn't work for many.

Magdlyn, you're right. People aren't property. I know this cognitively. But getting my emotions and responses to fall in line... that is taking work. It's harder than I thought it would be.

WhatHappened, you are right. I was being an asshole. I can't continue to blame the church and society and my community for this... I chose this. And now I am seeing the full scope of it and am trying to learn... move forward. Be healthy. And honest.

Bookbug, I am actively working to understand my needs. I in fact have known them for awhile, but repressed them because I felt guilty about potentially ruining Mark's relationship, hurting my wife, and potentially losing Beth. But now I know I am listening... and striving for honesty.

Beth and I had a big talk yesterday. Her best friend (and maid of honor who knows everything and loves all three of us) had just scolded Beth for not telling Mark about the affair. Beth came to me trying to figure out a way if she could tell Mark. I told her that I won't press the matter. That it's her decision.

I told her though, that I may need to take a break, or even go find another partner as I don't want to mess with her and Mark anymore. She didn't like those options (she's fine with me having a second partner, but I don't think she wants me to have an emotional anchor with someone else) and finally admitted that she was afraid of losing me, and potentially losing the whole Vee.

I told her that I want to try to make this work, try to to do poly in an honest way. But didn't know how to as long as I know there is deceit involved. I was very calm and said, "I want all of us to have our needs met. You need to be willing to let me go if that is the most healthy way to proceed."

Beth asked me to at least sit with Mark and talk about all this (not the affair) and see if we can negotiate an arrangement that works. (no we haven't done this ever. Beth has slowly asked Mark for more time with me, sleepover privileges, trips etc... all which he agreed to. But Beth didn't want to lay out the whole equal partner idea to quickly. All this makes me feel worse becuse Mark is such a standup guy)

After some back and forth and hard emotions, I agreed to not make a decision until I sat with Mark and her. But I asked Beth to reach out and talk to someone. She and I will be meeting with my therapist, I asked her to post her own version of the story on a poly forum and seek advice, and have a drink with some of my friends.

We'll see what happens.

And then last night all three of us hung out. I apologized to Mark, opening the door for us to begin healing. We then made dinner, played a game, watched a movie. I fell asleep on Beth's shoulder while she held Mark's hand. It was lovely and I do hope we can make it work.
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  #17  
Old 01-01-2014, 09:22 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Apologized for what?
  • Does that mean he knows now? That you and Beth began an affair prior to presenting it as "polyshipping" to him?
  • Or did you apologize for not getting together in trio to talk/hang out until this time?

That's two different things there. Could you be willing to clarify?

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 01-01-2014 at 09:41 PM.
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  #18  
Old 01-02-2014, 02:20 AM
LloydN LloydN is offline
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I apologized for saying I'd divorce my wife for Beth a week before their wedding. Beth told him that I had said this, which I'm not happy with, but we're all in a place where we are reacting to each other, saying hurtful things. We need to slow down, talk, negotiate etc...

Right now I feel I can offer Beth two trajectories:

1) We move towards a path of honesty and openness where she eventually tells Mark the whole truth. We start to open up to a few trusted friends and family (my Dad know everything and he's supportive. Good dude!) and if trust can be rebuilt, we can work towards a longer commitment.

or

2) We keep our secret, and I move towards finding another partner that can fulfill my needs in an open and honest way.
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  #19  
Old 01-02-2014, 01:21 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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I hope you have stopped sleeping with Beth and put your relationship on hold until she tells Mark the truth.
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  #20  
Old 01-02-2014, 04:41 PM
Nadya Nadya is offline
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Just a short comment. You said to Beth:

Quote:
You need to be willing to let me go if that is the most healthy way to proceed.
I disagree. You YOURSELF need to have the strength to walk away from an unhealthy situation, even against Beth's willingness, if it is the best way to secure YOUR OWN well-being.
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