Sailing Solo

I had an online chat with Kip this afternoon, threw out a hypothetical..
If 2 people are in an open relationship, they have full a disclosure agreement. One partner finds out the other is having other sex partners, is it cheating?
His answers ranged from no, it's an open relationship, to yes, if there is an agreement to disclose.
I asked if he we had a full disclosure agreement. He said yes.
I asked if he would expect me to tell him I have another sex partner, he said yes.
He asked if I had any other partners apart from Prof, I said no.
I asked if he had any other partners or sex encounters, he said no.

I am now entirely clear that I wasn't dreaming up a full disclosure agreement. Not that there was a real doubt anyway, but one wants to be sure. And also clear that he has no problem lying about his activities.

I feel ready to meet and let him lie to my face some more, then tell him I know everything, or at least as much as I read, and that was plenty.

I am done with him. I will maintain some chit chat till I see him again in person, I don't want this to be a phone talk.

On the good news side, ex has finally moved into his new place and will start taking the kids again. I am starting to feel like a shut-in.
 
I met Kip yesterday, he said he really wanted to meet before the vacation.
Evasive and avoidant. I eventually had to say that I saw his profile online and knew he was dating. He tried to say that he had told me a while back. Erm no. He said he is chatting, sending pics, talking on the phone but hasn't met anyone yet in person. Interesting to note he blinks a lot when he is lying. He maintained that there isn't really anything to say at this point. It was quite obvious that he had no intention of telling me any thing at any point. He was very clear that he wanted to know what I was doing, who I was seeing etc. that we had full disclosure etc. He tried to turn the OKC back on me, by saying I didn't tell him I was going back online and had said I was giving it a break for a while. I couldn't deny that, but the order had been reading his emails and then doing it. I didn't admit I had done that, read the emails, I am lying by omission too.

The upshot is, I still want to do the swap in January, it is condoms all round, and this will probably be my last foray into multiple sex. I want to check it off my fuckit list. Self-serving behavior all round.

Then enough. I don't need either of them in my life.

I don't regret the experience of having meet them and learning what I have about poly and open relationships. I have read a vast amount of both online info and opinion and books. Learning is usually good.:)

I am reassessing what I am looking for and asking for in future relationships. While one should never say never, I think I am highly unlikely to see anyone who...is married, has veto, has a 2 page list of relationship rules or lives with their parents/parents.

I am going to try some meet-up groups next year. My resolution is to work on talking to unfamiliar people in social settings. I might try a few poly meetings too.

Counseling is also on the list, but I am stuck until ex takes the kids regularly. That has been pushed out another week or so.

Internship class starts in 2 weeks. I have 1 year to finish the requirements, so that will keep me busy. I read the curriculum, it is extensive and time consuming, but very interesting. All good :)

And of course, I still have my 2 wonderful children, so excited to be spending Xmas Eve with them this year. We will be up at 6 opening presents and Skyping the family to share in it. They should be off to their Dad at around 10 am back at 6 ish. I plan to go and see the new Hobbit movie, all my friends are out of town so I will get a few hours to myself. Whoop Whoop :)
 
Last edited:
I bumped into Prof yesterday, he was walking on the street, nice bit of coincidence as he had a bag of presents for me. He was planning to leave them on the doorstep as I was out and about and that saved him a trip.
He had already cancelled Wednesday by text as he will be out of town and said he hopes to see me sometime next week. Gives him more time to contact Me.2. He explicitly said he is looking for a kink partner and great sex.

I told Kip I was back on OKC, he was slightly miffed. Doesn't want my dating to take anytime away from him, he is my "priority". :rolleyes: He is setting up a lunch date with Me.2, lots of naked pics and questions about sex.

Neither of them have actually asked Me.2 what is my name or what I do for a living, nothing that I have had to lie about. It is all about them, what they are looking for and what they have to offer, same things they promised me in the beginning.

The Me.2 experiment( not that it was meant to be) has been very eye opening. They are spinning the same lines that they gave me when we met. Available time, both have plenty, willingness to travel and have weekends away, understanding partners, drama free, Prof apparently has a few short rules, no mention of 2 pages or veto.

I am stopping the Me.2 correspondence, it was very stupid to do it in the first place, I am sinking to their level, but it has been an opportunity to see that I fell for the the lines and they are good at spinning them. It wasn't just me seeing and hearing what I thought I wanted to see and hear, they both presented themselves as much more available and honest than they actually are.

So 2 weeks or so till the 4 way. Kip has said he will pick up all of the hotel bill so I can have the room to myself afterwards. He wants me to have a nice treat. I had put together a list of possibilities and emailed it to him, so the king suite with balcony and view it is! I was touched at the gesture, despite the lying, he has always been very sweet and generous.

I still don't really understand the need for deceit, excitement and validation are my current guesses. Is it thrilling to think he is getting one, two, three over on me? Doesn't really matter at this point.

I have been reading the forums on communicating after boundary and rule breaks. One part of me thinks I should tell Kip that I know everything and re-set the rules to "Do what you like, share if you want," and we are back to condoms. I like a label, what would that be then, FBs? I still feel polyish. I want loving connections with my partners. I thought I had that. I was told I had that. Are my expectations of disclosure too demanding? Was it not my place to ask to be kept in the loop about their other sex partners? I keep coming back to; if they didn't want to tell me then they should have told me they didn't want to disclose, and let me decide if I wanted to be in FB type relationship. Could it be they would tell me anything just to keep the sex?????? Noooooooo, much sarcasm.
 
Taking a break from the raking leaves...
Talked to mum about what is going on. She surprised me by saying but it's an open relationship dear, you can't expect to know what is going on, just because you tell tell them, doesn't mean they need to tell you. You know neither of them is looking for a commitment and neither are you. So why are you surprised by this? I explained my shock at the lying , she didn't think it was lying more being economical with the truth.
Wow mum! Her and Dad are really so conservative, but continue to surprise me with accepting the whole open relationship/poly thing. I have always been the slightly odd one out of the kids, probably not much left I could shock them with. I might keep the kinky side quiet though ;)
One of my other friends had the same opinion. She is 65 and has seen more than a few things in her time. She thought it was an open relationship and they a free to do whatever they like. as am I. Pretty much the same as mum, just cause I tell all doesn't mean they have to. Why would I be surprised they are dating and not telling me, direct questioning or not.
I thought both of them would say dump the gits.
Friend M was more; use condoms and go with it until it doesn't work for you anymore. Apart from this hiccough, they both both have been quiet good partners.
Mum was; continue until something better comes along. MUM!!!!!!!!! or break it off if you feel you need to.
I was expecting a bit more commiserating and man bashing. They both pointed out that I am not looking for a full-time boyfriend type situation and tend to go a running when one presents itself. So quit complaining!
More food for thought...
 
Worked my butt off to get the place cleaned up after present unwrapping. I got the kids off to their Dad at 10 and cleaned cleaned cleaned. Got all the decorations down and the tree stripped and put in the yard. Kip accused me of being a grinch. I told him I had to do while I had the chance. The decorations and tree have been up for nearly a month. Nice to get it all packed away.
Kip has been in fairly constant contact since he has been away, I don't get it. Maybe his other lady friends are all busy. He got me a lovely pair of 1/2 ct diamond stud earrings. Really gorgeous, I am quite touched. We did our gift exchange a while ago.
Prof presented me with 2 beautifully gift wrapped boxes. I was so excited I opened them last night. I got myself all comfy, made a cup of tea and peeled off the wrapping carefully, opened the lovely white paper to find...A Dr Who sonic screwdriver pen, hmmm ok, box #2, same lovely wrapping, tissue paper and... a plush Dalek. WTF? I was literally looking under the paper for the real gift. Erm no. Then I thought they were meant for the kids...no, my name was on the boxes. Blimey. How much thought and effort went into that!He had asked me to send some ideas, which I did, book, knife sharpener, underwear sizes.
He literally just sent me a text asking if I had assembled it ( the sonic screwdriver) , apparently rather impressed by his own gift selection:rolleyes: I plan to return it and buy a book. I am not a collector of junk, or treasures or knick knacks. No idea why he would think I would like them. :confused: Yes, I should appreciate the thought, fact is I don't think much thought went into it at all. Something hanging up at the check-out stand.
I took myself off to see the Hobbit, very much enjoyed it, much better than the first. Lots of skyping various family. No cooking!!!!!Kids due back in 20 minutes, looking forward to playing more with them. All in all a very pleasant day. Hope you all had a lovely day too.
 
Last edited:
I have an OKC date lined up for the weekend, if ex takes the kids. Ex was humming and hawing about it yesterday.
I have been texting and messaging OKC guy on and off for about 8 months, the same time I met Prof and Yo. We never met first time around cause he wanted me to meet him at his place and I said no way. He said he didn't like the coffee meet/interview and wouldn't do that. I said I am not meeting in a non-public place, so we continued to text and message. He has since invited me to 2 activities, which I couldn't attend, so we are past the "my place or nothing" stage. Long past it.
He knows about Prof and Kip, we have discussed open relationships etc. He has weekends free and wants to do his own thing during the week but would like a weekend partner. So the scheduling part fits. He understands that I am a second hand flake, ie. when ex flakes I have to cancel.
I had 2 huge childcare bills for the past few months when ex wasn't picking them up after school and I had to do some before school care too. I have some good friends and a neighbor who help out, but no-one likes doing late nights, that is when I pay for a sitter.
Anyway, it will be nice to get dressed up and meet a new person.
 
Ex is taking the kids, they are very excited, all good.
Prof wants to shift from Wednesday to Mon and/or Thursday. I got the secondary bump! I was wondering how it would play it with both holidays being on a Weds. Now I know. I don't really care. He's heading for a bigger bump in a few weeks, off my schedule entirely.
Kip is still all chitty chatty online. I couldn't be bothered with him for a few days and got lots of sweet and concerned messages. Pah!
So date with OKC guy is on. I am looking forward to slapping on a bit of lippy and some heels.:D
 
Part I
Don't know if I can stick with the pair of them till the 8th. I have been tossing and turning all night, which never happens. When I stress, I sleep, I definitely do not lay in bed with thoughts racing.
Ex flakes, surprise :rolleyes: but offers to do Sat through Monday morning instead.
Okc guy is fine with that we reschedule to Saturday lunch.
Let's go back a few weeks, I am asking Prof about weekends, we have not had one Fri or Sat night in 9 months. He raises the fact that S is undergoing treatment and he will be with her every weekend from now until forever. Shame on me for asking was implied too.She was due a round of treatment yesterday.
I text him and ask if he will be back in town on Sunday night, "highly unlikely" is the response. Hey, I need a shag.
One hour later comes the question.. am I free Sunday afternoon? I say yes, kids are away for the weekend. Am I free for an FMF? And here is a pic of the other F. Pic of F in his playroom arrives. He was already in town when he said he couldn't do Sunday.
The other F 's name is B. She was vetoed a long while back but Prof asked for her to be taken of the list as she was coming to town over the winter break. I ask if he is in town now..Friday evening? Yes he is. He has a 3 bedroom house with one bed. I ask how that is going to work, am I staying over with him? He replies that is optional. B is staying for the weekend. WFT??????? I don't get one night in 9 months and suddenly he is free for the whole weekend? The offer is, I get to join them for the FMF and go home. Unicorn! except I am not bi. Then he offers to book a hotel room so I can stay too. I actually agreed and then went to bed.
Then the thoughts race...I don't get a weekend night, I am being added to the couple, I was really expected to play and leave. He left S immediately post treatment to be with B but would not even leave 2 days later to be with me. Hasn't made time for me in 9 months.
Actions speak louder than words.
I got up and sent a text saying ..."Don't book a room, just do your own thing, have fun." Very restrained. He replied that they are sitting in a bar planning the evening. " Are you really out?" I didn't reply.
I know he does hierarchical relationships. He has a primary, and I am secondary, but apparently I got bumped down even further to "available hole" level. Thanks, but no thanks.
I don't want to see him ever again; talk, text, nothing.
 
You really need to dump these cheating lying sketchy assholes. You deserve better, you know that?
 
Part II
Yes, Mags, agreed, enough is enough.
Prof will get an email cause I am too chicken shit to call or do it in person. I don't want to talk about it.
While I admit I am fairly poor at communicating my feelings, I have been very explicit in asking for what I want and what he can offer. I have been fed a line of bullshit for long enough.
I have been chewing away at the thought that I am too controlling, too many questions, I like clarity, who doesn't?
I like the idea of a polycule or polyfidelity. A fairly closed network. I see others on here do it, it looks appealing.
I have really been wrangling with the question of casual sex. Could I met someone for coffee and be naked with them an hour later? The answer is no.
One part of me says just do it, be open to trying, live a little. The other half says that I don't get turned on physically without the mind being involved too.
I have two kids for whom I am the sole stability and economic provider. I need to be safe for them. I cannot take the risks inherent is recreational sex. Sure I might get hit by a car, but meeting and hooking-up is a choice. While there is no guarantee taking it slowly will be better, at least there time to check the fit, safer sex practices, etc

There has been much talk with Kip. He said he is lining up coffee dates with some expectation of sex. Finally come clean to some degree.

I don't know why I have more patience with him than Prof. Kip said he worries that I will find someone more "substantial" and drop him. So he is keeping options open too. I understand that, or he is feeding me a line.
We made a number of agreements, worked out what we are comfortable with. I am not prepared to drop him yet. I have greatly benefited from the discussions of the past few days. The open communication that I read about on here. I feel like I can still learn from him. From Prof and S I have learned how not do poly/open. It all adds to the knowledge banks. No regrets. A clearer picture of what I want.
One change at a time.
 
Last edited:
I put on my big girl panties and broke up with Prof in person. I appreciate the same courtesy so best to give it.
He was a bit upset and a little surprised. I explained the whole "secondary never make time for me" part. He said he has been with S 10 days straight and her sister turned up unexpectedly to take over. So he drove to .... and picked up B for some fun. Kind of got it that he didn't consider asking me if I was available. Got it that sending me home in a taxi was dismissive, but hey, he'll still book a hotel room if I want to come and play tonight or I could get taxis both ways and not have to worry about my car. And so help me, I was sorely tempted. But nothing will change, he didn't try to bargain or persuade me otherwise, no promises of things changing.
I was dreading the "you know what is wrong with you" part, but it never came. Said he enjoyed my company very much and hoped we could still be friends. I was hoping he would say that.
One of his businesses provides a service that has been utilized heavily by my neighbor who is on disability and a very limited budget. His company provided it at a third of cost. I know it has made a big difference to my neighbor.Prof said to keep in touch for that, he is happy to continue to help. At the end of the day Prof has never been mean or unkind, a little thoughtless maybe. Too wrapped up the hierarchy. I hope we do keep in contact, I usually cut off all but will again, try to be a grown up for my neigbors sake.

OKC guy revenge flaked on me. Straight up, said I flaked on him so he is flaking on me. Nice to find out before we wasted time meeting. Plus I rechecked his profile, he is 5'8. I would look silly in 5 inch heels.:p

Kip was online with me for about 6 hours. He helped me rejig my OKC profile. Said all my pics were crap and I don't look like that in real life. I did ask him for an honest opinion. So I got quite a few hits, especially from the under 30 brigade. I want Bluebird's inbox. ;)
 
I'm glad you broke up with him in person. It gives you closure as well. You made the right decision for you. I'm cheering for you!
 
Okay, I've been reading all along and wanted to comment on some of your past posts, but didn't so I am going to try and catch up now...

Don't know if I can stick with the pair of them till the 8th. I have been tossing and turning all night . . . I know he does hierarchical relationships. He has a primary, and I am secondary, but apparently I got bumped down even further to "available hole" level. Thanks, but no thanks.
I put on my big girl panties and broke up with Prof in person.
Available hole, ugh. I always use the term "convenient slit." Either way, who needs or wants that shit? Good for you for ending it.

Well, one down, one more to go!

Talked to mum about what is going on. She surprised me by saying but it's an open relationship dear, you can't expect to know what is going on, just because you tell tell them, doesn't mean they need to tell you. You know neither of them is looking for a commitment and neither are you. So why are you surprised by this? I explained my shock at the lying , she didn't think it was lying more being economical with the truth.
While, yes, this does indicate a certain open-mindedness on your mother's part, I think what she said is also in keeping one major misconception about poly that many people have - and that is that if you're poly you can't ask for or expect any kind of commitment from anyone. People think it's all about being loosey-goosey and flitting around from one hook-up to another. However, even if you want the parameters of your relationships to be somewhat more casual or less structured than most mainstream ones, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to count on someone or trust them at their word. It doesn't mean you can't have agreements and abide by them. And it certainly doesn't mean you will never have a reason to be disappointed! And these two schmucks have been rather disappointing!

I told Kip I was back on OKC, he was slightly miffed. Doesn't want my dating to take anytime away from him, he is my "priority". :rolleyes: He is setting up a lunch date with Me.2, lots of naked pics and questions about sex.

Neither of them have actually asked Me.2 what is my name or what I do for a living, nothing that I have had to lie about. It is all about them, what they are looking for and what they have to offer, same things they promised me in the beginning.

The Me.2 experiment( not that it was meant to be) has been very eye opening. They are spinning the same lines that they gave me when we met. Available time, both have plenty, willingness to travel and have weekends away, understanding partners, drama free, Prof apparently has a few short rules, no mention of 2 pages or veto.
As sneaky as it is to have a Me2 profile, you sure got to see them for their true colors. Sheesh, not even asking your name but sending naked pics! What kind of crap is that?

And I really don't get why Kip thinks he can get all bossy with you and tell you what to do with your life and your body. That is very prickish of him.

I had an online chat with Kip this afternoon . . . I feel ready to meet and let him lie to my face some more, then tell him I know everything . . . I am done with him.
The upshot is, I still want to do the swap in January, it is condoms all round, and this will probably be my last foray into multiple sex. I want to check it off my fuckit list.
So 2 weeks or so till the 4 way. Kip has said he will pick up all of the hotel bill so I can have the room to myself afterwards. He wants me to have a nice treat. I had put together a list of possibilities and emailed it to him, so the king suite with balcony and view it is! I was touched at the gesture, despite the lying, he has always been very sweet and generous.

You know what? Kip is not your last chance in the world to have group sex! Why not do it with someone who deserves to be with you in that way? There are actually good, kind, respectful, honest men out there in the world who I am sure would do it with you. My vote (I know you didn't say you are taking votes, but here's mine anyway) is to dump him too. Now. Diamond earrings, paying a hotel room, and the promise of group sex is no reason to stick with an arrogant, domineering liar.

Now hear this: you deserve better!
 
Last night...dum de dum, bit bored...contemplating texting Prof and saying I would do it, should i have a shower, could be fun, then my phone beeps with the message from SouthernGal. Just what I needed, reality check, I watched Dracula instead. Feel good today that I didn't.

Then my period started, so I start second guessing again, was I just being PMT sensitive? Should I give it a bit more time?

Then I log on here and see message from NYCIndie. I still haven't got the quote thing down but much you say is very true. It helps to have your own thoughts reflected back with an independent view point.

The Me.2 profile wasn't set up to be sneaky, it was a genuine profile that I hadn't put any pics on. Responding to them and not saying it was me was sneaky. I was surprised neither of them twigged to it, too self-centered.

Why haven't I dumped Kip yet too? Yes, he is bossy, he has strong opinions on what I do. I think about it often.
I have had 3 other lovers in the time I have known him. Br was a total ass, Yo was flakey and not good in bed, Prof was too hierarchical. I have had a few dates that didn't go anywhere. Through all of them I have maintained Kip. I am struggling to put it into words. The pros are still outweighing the cons, though the cons are most definitely there.
I don't know, I will think more. I tried typing out a few ideas but none of it is clear.
 
It's also possible the PMS was driving the desire to go meet him after all last night. You really do deserve to be treated with thought and consideration and it seemed clear to me Prof was more interested in getting some "strange" than in maintaining his current relationships and showing basic consideration. You should never have to feel like you're just an "available hole." Good luck!
 
The desire to go meet was also because I had my first Saturday night free in nearly 2 months. Really felt that I was wasting it. But if I went to see Prof I would still be in the same position of no weekends. And "convenient slit".
Looking for the new strange is very true SouthernGal.

Ex is going to start taking the kids regularlyish again. I have New Year's Eve free, Wednesday and the Thursday; possibly, yes, watch it crash and burn. Nothing new there.

Oh let's call Prof, I thought, I have Wednesday free! I forgot that he bumped me off this Wednesday, cause I am secondary, and then came the thought that I am glad it is over.

I am going to start tennis lessons with my friend once a month on Weds and get back to Weds gym class. I have been working out a lot at the weekend but it is not as effective as doing it throughout the week. And of course it is open to meet new people.

Then...OKC message, cute, tall and used to be a tennis instructor, oh look, new shiny thing...wanders off.....smiling....:D
 
Last edited:
I met OKC guy, quick set up, phone chat and meet.
Nice, short, 5'9. I wore short heels and was still taller. I suspect 5'9 is optimistic.
Asked about the accent, but very little else, he talked and talked. Kind of think that is my fault. I listen for my job and pull information, don't offer up much.
I have noticed that with my dates, they talk and I listen .

But right at the end he started talking about open relationships, poly and swinging. Said he liked 3 somes, liked having a main partner and adding others. Said he read my responses to the questions on OKC., saw that I was open to open relationships. We were getting kicked off the table so I didn't get to ask more.
Said he was cool with single mum schedule and would call tomorrow.

I had my first drink since thanksgiving and I mean one small glass of wine. Went right to my head, empty stomach and all. I stood up and was a bit woo woo. Luckily I live seconds away. Probably should have walked home. Had a hug in the parking lot. No kiss. Which is good. I like to go have a think.
 
I reread your blog a few days back and was struck by the fact that Kip had "been there" for you a lot of times. He seemed genuinely caring and supportive. I think it's reasonable to keep that in mind along with the deception.

You seem to be thinking of maintaining a relationship with him but not acknowledging that you know there has been a lot of deception. Do you think this can work for you? It seems potentially explosive to me. Also, you would be adopting his habit of deception. How do you think you will feel if you have to hide this knowledge long term?

Wrt your 4 way plans, aside from "checking it off the list", what do you want to get out of it? How do you hope to feel? Given the current circumstances, do you think those feelings are likely to occur? What mindset would you need to have going into it, and how well does that match with where you are now?

Sorry that you've been having such a tough time lately!
 
You seem to be thinking of maintaining a relationship with him but not acknowledging that you know there has been a lot of deception. Do you think this can work for you? It seems potentially explosive to me. Also, you would be adopting his habit of deception. How do you think you will feel if you have to hide this knowledge long term?

The thing is, Atlantis is deceptive herself, she admitted that. She aided Prof in deceiving his wife about how often they were getting together. She's been communicating with both Prof and Kip under an assumed identity, and doesn't plan to stop it. She listens and nods at people and doesn't express her own feelings.

That doesn't make you "bad," Atlantis, but it does not lead to fully mature, supportive, comforting and exciting relationships. It leads to a kind of drifting along the surface of life, being continually disappointed and depending on the next new and shiny to give you a distraction from the former wreckage.
 
Back
Top