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  #21  
Old 12-24-2013, 11:15 PM
hellokitty hellokitty is offline
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Agreed. Thank you. I'm glad to know I'm not crazy.
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  #22  
Old 12-25-2013, 08:04 AM
london london is offline
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So how much longer are you going to drag it out?
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  #23  
Old 12-25-2013, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
Situation now is:

*Gf accepts me having sex with my bf.
*Gf says no interactions with other guys without her being involved. No kissing or having anything go on with this other guy at all.

Seems kinda like she did a trade off like "well if you can have sex with your bf then you can't do anything w any other guys." She didn't say it in those words but I feel she thinks I should compromise because she's "allowing" me to sleep w my bf.
This is unacceptable. Only YOU and you alone, have a right to control what you do with your body and I am sure I probably said the same thing to you last year. Furthermore, it is absolutely ridiculous and demeaning for her to think she can insist on being involved with anyone else you want to be with. That person has a choice, too - why should she dictate not only your sex life but the sex life of whoever you get involved with as well? Who does she think she is? Do not accept her terms - is she a girlfriend or the boss of you? Come on now, really!

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Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
I don't think it should have ever been a question whether I'd have full control over my sex life w my bf. Totally regret ever giving in to that when it went down but she pretty much gave me an ultimatum . . . It's only been a month and a half since I first kissed the other guy when she said "no more" but it feels like it's been forever, lol.
I don't see how you can "LOL" about it. This is some serious shit - she has issues and wants to control you!

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Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
My gf was by my side through all of this, supporting me, saying he should let me be who I am. Now it makes me question if maybe she was only so supportive bc it benefited her (we liked the same "other" guy at the time.)
That was my first thought upon reading this - she is all about her happiness, not yours. You are being manipulated.

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Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
I don't know. I love her. Besides all the poly stuff, we get along fantastically. There are just a lot of traits with her way of loving and holding onto a relationship that make me want to RUN!
Why second-guess yourself? You are seeing the obvious red flags but putting blinders on and telling yourself that because you love her and have some good times with her, that you should put up with her nonsense. Love is not enough for a relationship to be healthy and satisfying! Sometimes the most loving thing we can do, for ourselves and others, is to let someone go. There has to be respect, too. I don't see much respect for who you are coming from her.

If I were you, I'd run without looking back!
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  #24  
Old 12-25-2013, 08:59 PM
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Hi hellokitty,

I think you'll find that opinions will vary here as to how long you should give your girlfriend (to ease off on the rules) before cutting the ties. Some will say don't ever do it (since polyamory is the only fly in the ointment -- is it really such a little thing?); some will say give her a year? (based on that being the longest amount of time you can stand to wait); some will say don't give her any time, cut the ties now. You have to take some responsibility for your own course in life, and not depend too much on others to have a unanimous consensus about what you should do. We can't read your mind. We don't know how much of a toll this poly disagreement is taking on you. Maybe it's only a minor annoyance and venting about it sometimes suffices to let you smile the rest of the while.

I'll tentatively vote for giving it a year, but I doubt you'll find that vote to be satisfactory, especially since others are saying zero is the right amount of time. You have your self-respect to think of. Are you respecting yourself by allowing your girlfriend to control your love life? This is a question that you alone can, and must, answer.

An alternative approach would be to only talk about the positives that you enjoy in your relationship with your girlfriend. Perhaps doing so would make the poly thing seem like less of a big deal. Sort of a fake-it-til-you-make-it type of a thing. What do you need in order to be happy? is the key question here. If you can't be happy, then everyone involved isn't happy by definition since that includes you. Is it just a bad attitude? Would talking more about the positives help you to forget about the negatives? again a question to which only you could know the right answer.

I've spent well over five years participating a lot on various poly forums, and have seen everything from relationship anarchists to people who find out they can't do poly (or any other kind of non-monogamy) at all. A one-size-fits-all answer doesn't exist when it comes to how many rules one can and should tolerate in one's life. I myself live in a poly-fi unit and as such there are many rules. I have found (over time) that the rules suit me well enough. But someone else in my position might find the rules to be quite suffocating.

So -- are you suffocating, or just twitching a little over the rules? If you're just twitching, then I'd stick to venting now and then and give your girlfriend as much time as she needs. If you're suffocating, then I'd get out now.

I'm assuming you're somewhere in between those two extremes, which is why I suggest giving your girlfriend a finite length of time (I say a year because you felt you couldn't take it for more than that), and if the rules are as tight as ever by then, then you'll have your answer. But all the advice in the world isn't going to supply you with the perfect answer that meets your every need. No answer is perfect in a situation like this. At some point you're likely to have to choose between your girlfriend and your freedom. Which will it be?

But, hopefully she'll come around soon and you won't have to worry about that. We can, of course, hold out for that hope indefinitely ...

Maybe with more information I'll have a better idea of what to suggest? For now I'm just going by what is presented.

Regards,
Kevin T.
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  #25  
Old 12-26-2013, 02:53 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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So this is what she proposes at this time.
  • Gf accepts me having sex with my bf.
  • Gf says no interactions with other guys without her being involved

It is less than clear.
  • For HOW LONG is this next time frame where those points are the guiding boundaries? Maybe you are ok with this if it is "For the next month" and maybe you are not ok with it if it is for the next decade.
  • "Involve" her in WHAT WAY in the process? Like a threesome only with her there? Or you give her the heads up before you proceed to date a person? Or date them, but give her a heads up and labs before it gets to naked/sex? Some of that you may find reasonable to you and some you might not.

Did you AGREE to uphold this already? Or are you only considering her proposal at this point in time and considering it is wigging you out? That part isn't clear to me either.

Quote:
She asked me to give her more credit and confidence that she's working towards giving me what I want, and I'm trying. I'm just scared. I guess I just maybe need more details.
Could play ball and actually ask for the details you need to feel secure.

Quote:
It's hard for me to get so detailed about things because I don't want to hurt anyone or make things uncomfortable or maybe I'm also afraid of hearing things I don't want to.
  • How is you asking for more information hurting anyone? Who does it hurt?
  • Who is uncomfortable if you ask for more information? You? Her? Are you experiencing great comfort NOW when you do NOT ask?
  • What are you afraid of hearing? How does this prevent you from asking for the info you need to feel reassured?

If you need more details from her for YOU to know/be reassured she isn't foot dragging or stringing you along, could you ASK for details.

Could deal with whatever you feel about the answer after you HAVE the answer rather than "pre-feeling/what iffing" stuff. That's a good way to make yourself nuts. Could stop doing that.
  • RELATE. Negotiate here. communicate, and get what you need. Then you can move on to the next thing.
  • Or DON'T RELATE. Call it a day, no matter how disappointing. Then you can move on to the next thing.

This dragging it out stuff... it is not serving either of you. Play ball. Or don't play. But move it forward.

Quote:
I know I need to be asking HER these things, but I'm the kind of person that really needs to have all my thoughts laid out first before saying anything. Also I have no idea wtf I'm doing so some clarity or validation would be nice.
So could lay out your thoughts and get some feedback.
  • What do you MEAN you don't know what you are doing?
  • What do you need validated?
  • What do you need clarified?

You have a BF, you have a GF. You seem to want to date more people.

The BF seems fine with it. How did you tell him that is different than how you tell your GF?

It it very simple sounding to me. Hard to feel, but pretty straight up to ASK --

"GF, I have a BF and I have a GF (you.)
At this time, I would like to date other people and still maintain concurrent relationships with you and BF.

What needs do I need to meet for you in order for you to be willing/able to participate in that sort of arrangement? Could you be up for that? Or just not up for it at all ever? Where do you stand so that I can know?"
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 12-26-2013 at 04:52 AM.
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  #26  
Old 12-27-2013, 06:17 AM
hellokitty hellokitty is offline
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I told her how I feel. How important my autonomy is and having control over my experiences w others. She said she knows. She wants me to have that. But isn't comfortable with it, and can't/won't promise she ever will be. She said "I know you're going to do what you want but it doesn't mean I agree or support it. I can't control you, all I can control is how I feel about things and I don't think I'll know until it happens."

I told her leaving it all open ended without resolution scares me. I don't want it to end up like the last agreement, dragging on forever. She said she just doesn't wanna fight about it anymore - that it hurts most to fight. That she knows I'm going to do what I'm going to do but she can't predict how she'll feel or react and doesn't want to make any agreements on it either.

We kinda sat in silence for a while both just stumped on what to do. I said I'm afraid of having this same convo over and over. I know how I feel and it's not going to change. Whether we deal w it today in a month 6 mo or a year I know that's the kind of relationship I want (more open, more freedom) and she doesn't know if she can handle it. She said but if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out. It won't be the end of the world. Let's just have fun together while we can. We will deal w things as they happen. She said I can kiss who I want but she's not comfy with more than that.

I think it's the best I can hope for right now if I don't want to lose her. She's pretty much saying do what you will - with my response being yes I will be myself but I'm offering you a chance to discuss options. Though we're not really seeing a compromise in sight for either of us so.. It's been discussed and we'll move on for now. Trying to let go of needing to have control over every aspect of the situation & predict the future cuz I can't. I want to be happy with her & experience life together. I just need some space to be me. I'm hoping things smooth themselves out, like they have w my bf.

It's kinda how it went with him too. I will admit I'm stubborn. I analyze and go over every detail obsessively and think deeply into every situation so when I come to a conclusion, it's usually pretty final. Or at least what I know I need in that moment of time or situation. It's very thought out so I'm hard to persuade otherwise.

I had come to the conclusion all my issues distancing myself from him stemmed from feeling too depended on (in turn closing off my independence) and feeling not in total control of myself. I needed space, independence and the freedom to be myself with others. We discussed it a few times b4 I said look it's a need not a want. I don't wanna fuck up or "cheat" so I'm telling you now it's what I need and you have the option to stay or go. I don't want to constantly feel guilty or hurt & disappoint you. He stayed and things have never been better.

Tbh I think sometimes when dealing w jealousy "ignorance can be bliss." He knows I have his "blessing" to do what I will but I don't offer up details so he's not hurting creating scenarios and nothing bad has happened. It has only enhanced every aspect of our relationship. Not taken away. He gave me freedom to grow and challenged himself to also, while having the time / space needed to learn bout what causes the jealousy.

I can only hope that will happen with her. I hope the more we try to grow together and as individuals, these "problems" will melt away into history. I think I can do and get what I need to a point and like I said deal with the rest as it comes along.
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  #27  
Old 12-27-2013, 06:50 AM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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DADT (Don't Ask Don't Tell) doesn't often work, but it does for some people at least up to a point and I think you have seen a bit of that. Perhaps if your girlfriend isn't overly aware of the details of what you're doing, she won't be so upset? You could ask her about that. Some people imagine the worst if they don't hear the details straight up.

I think it's good that you and she had a heart-to-heart about it all and decided to just negotiate things a day at a time as you are able. And it sounds like you and your boyfriend have already got things figured out pretty well.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Regards,
Kevin T.
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  #28  
Old 12-27-2013, 05:48 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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She seems like she is basically saying
"Go ahead and date, I'm willing to go there. I will deal with whatever I feel once there. Including whether or not I feel like continuing to participate in this polyship with you -- that's on me. I won't block you. If it works out, ok. If it doesn't, not the end of the world."
That is and has always been her bag to hold. Her willingness to participate initially and her willingness to continue to participate is her decision. Not yours.

She's sounds pretty reasonable and realistic.

And you cannot predict/control every little thing. You yourself recognize that.

So go date who you want, kiss who you want, and before it gets to naked/sex time with the new person, give her the heads up so she's included and respected in the information loop so she can make her own sex health decisions.

Then she can decide if she's still in or if she wants to step off the polyship now. If she wants to step off -- you pause so she can step off with dignity and grace. Then you carry forward with the BF and the new person.

Hard to FEEL maybe. And that seems to be your trouble right now -- handling your own emotional management on this. You seem to be over the hump though. Are you?

At this point it seems pretty straightforward in behavior management so that all people are respected in the transition process.

I'm glad you guys have arrived at some sort of "work in progress agreement."

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 12-27-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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  #29  
Old 12-27-2013, 06:25 PM
london london is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
She seems like she is basically saying
"Go ahead and date, I'm willing to go there. I will deal with whatever I feel once there. Including whether or not I feel like continuing to participate in this polyship with you -- that's on me. I won't block you. If it works out, ok. If it doesn't, not the end of the world."
That is and has always been her bag to hold. Her willingness to participate initially and her willingness to continue to participate is her decision. Not yours.

She's sounds pretty reasonable and realistic.

And you cannot predict/control every little thing. You yourself recognize that.

So go date who you want, kiss who you want, and before it gets to naked/sex time with the new person, give her the heads up so she's included and respected in the information loop so she can make her own sex health decisions.

Then she can decide if she's still in or if she wants to step off the polyship now. If she wants to step off -- you pause so she can step off with dignity and grace. Then you carry forward with the BF and the new person.

Hard to FEEL maybe. And that seems to be your trouble right now -- handling your own emotional management on this. You seem to be over the hump though. Are you?

At this point it seems pretty straightforward in behavior management so that all people are respected in the transition process.

I'm glad you guys have arrived at some sort of "work in progress agreement."

Galagirl
I agree but I can also understand if the OP feels unable to develop relationships with other people whilst her partner might object to something she does and end their relationship. I can empathize with that need for some certainty before they take that leap with someone else.

But if you can manage that reality and still have other relations, do it. There is a chance that she might be able to deal with it as it happens.

The only option you have if you really can't take the leap with the knowledge this might be the proverbial straw, is to end it.
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  #30  
Old 12-27-2013, 06:49 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Something I have found; is that it helps to have a set time to come back to the table. So-for us we have agreed that every 3 months we will look at our agreements and see if they are "still working for us". That way if one of us feels a need for a change, we know it's possible at that 3 month mark to address it.
But-we don't discuss it at any other time-unless it's AN EMERGENCY situation (and frankly-there hasn't been such a thing-because most poly situations aren't emergencies).
It also forces us to follow through on our commitments regardless of NRE. So for example; if one of us meets someone and we want to change our agreement for the benefit of this new relationship; we can tell them our negotiation time frames (Jan, Mar, June, Sept). (We intentionally made the first time frame awkward to avoid Christmas season and our anniversaries (mine with GG is in April and with Maca is in July). That doesn't mean that the change can't happen. But it does mean we aren't going to just start demanding changes because we are caught up in NRE.

Its important to understand that your gf doesn't have to ever accept being in a relationship as open as you would like. That's her right. You don't have to accept being in a relationship as closed as she would like. That's your right.
But if you want to be together there needs to be compromise. Compromise by its nature means you both get SOME of what you want-but not all. It sounds like she's offered a compromise. Whether it's reasonable enough for you-only you can decide. But it's certainly not what she wants and it's more towards what you want, even though it's not everything you want. That makes it a reasonable offer AS A COMPROMISE.

If your highest priority at the moment is not losing her; it may be reasonable to agree with the caveat of wanting to re assess if it is still working for both of you at some specified time in the future. That stops the fight and allows time to "see how it goes" but also keeps it clear that this isn't necessarily going to be feasible forever.
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