Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 12-20-2013, 01:02 AM
ColorsWolf's Avatar
ColorsWolf ColorsWolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: CA, U.S.A.
Posts: 362
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spock View Post
You have too many negatives. What are you talking about?

Canceling negatives out gives us:
I wonder how many people who actually reject this: If they were afraid to declare that they are going to live a certain way just because it is acceptable to many other people

That's more or less basic human behavior; being afraid of social stigma and rejection. Are you saying, "I wonder how many people aren't afraid of social stigma and rejection"?

I posit as a WAG 1% of the population, maybe 5%. Everyone else does care because as a society there are in fact social mores and social laws and social values. You even use the term 'Family Values', implying you have social constraints too.
You understand my points, but your conclusions are mostly incorrect.~ In my thread "Family Values" I question the meaning and role of such words in U.S.A. society and media.~

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Re (from london):


Hmmm. Logic then dictates that you should ask this someone for their take on poly sometime before you actually bond with them. Does that help to narrow it down to some kind of a time frame?

That said, if it was me I'd mention in my profile that first of all I was poly, and secondly, that anyone interested should be willing to state early on what their take on poly is. Then they can't say I blindsided them when I ask them early on to state their position. If they've read my profile which, as we all know, if they haven't, they're probably not looking for much of a relationship anyway. Though maybe they can still score points if their messages are thoughtful enough.

I think it's reasonable knowing someone's position on poly before actually dating them, especially if interaction with them starts on OKC with messages going back and forth.

Re (from SchrodingersCat):


Sounds like an even better idea.

Some monogamous dates will be thinking, "This poly thing is just a phase that she'll outgrow when she sees how much better I love her." And then your responses meet up with their confirmation bias and they just become more and more sure of it. Which is how some monogamists become cowboys (or cowgirls). They are "rescuing" you from polyamory (and from a bad relationship). This type of thing is hard to weed out and you really have to stay on top of it.

Just some musings here and there,
Kevin T.
Well said.~
__________________
Love yourself, you are beautiful!~ ^_^

*Believe in yourself, you can do anything*!~ ^_^

Appreciate every thing, every thing is precious.~

Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-20-2013, 02:47 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 524
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatToDo View Post
As a "mono" married guy that fell for a "poly" married woman I have to say that I probably wouldn't do it again. I wouldn't trade the time I've had with my girlfriend for anything but its just so hard to form and maintain a relationship when dealing with such a limited schedule. Not all her fault as when the relationship started I was the one with the very limited schedule but now that mine has opened up hers has gotten to the point where I'm not sure it's even worth it. The whole scheduling thing that you have to deal with to be in a poly relationship may just not be for me.
My feelings exactly.

I never would have agreed to this had I not known him and felt the attraction between us to begin with. I'll even say I think he and his wife 'do poly' better than 99% of what I've seen online, as far as people having problems and issues. They have virtually no rules, no limitations.

But the fact is, this is a relationship that isn't going anywhere. When it comes to the big stuff in life, I'm on my own. Yeah, I enjoy his company, but I, too, have long since begun to wonder is it worth it.

So here's another mono saying I would never, ever date a poly person again.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-20-2013, 05:17 PM
WhatToDo WhatToDo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 94
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
My feelings exactly.

I never would have agreed to this had I not known him and felt the attraction between us to begin with. I'll even say I think he and his wife 'do poly' better than 99% of what I've seen online, as far as people having problems and issues. They have virtually no rules, no limitations.

But the fact is, this is a relationship that isn't going anywhere. When it comes to the big stuff in life, I'm on my own. Yeah, I enjoy his company, but I, too, have long since begun to wonder is it worth it.

So here's another mono saying I would never, ever date a poly person again.
Yeah, my girlfriend and her husband do the whole poly thing very well. Problem is all the other things that come with being married, kids, families and things of that nature. The relationship I can have with her is very limited.

At the end of the day I have to say that it is a relationship that isn't going anywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-20-2013, 06:02 PM
Spock Spock is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: East Bay California
Posts: 134
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColorsWolf View Post
You understand my points, but your conclusions are mostly incorrect.~ In my thread "Family Values" I question the meaning and role of such words in U.S.A. society and media.~
Impossible.

My conclusions cannot be incorrect. If the word 'Family Values' can have as many meanings as the word 'polyamory', then my conclusions are mine.

Your conclusion is incorrect; the correct conclusion would be, 'Your conclusion differs'

Let me revisit the post since you affirm that I understand the points.
Quote:
I wonder how many people who actually reject this: if they weren't afraid to declare that they are not going to live a certain way just because it is acceptable to many other people.
You agreed then to my rewording:
Quote:
I wonder how many people who actually reject this: If they were afraid to declare that they are going to live a certain way just because it is acceptable to many other people.
You think my conclusion is wrong, that many people don't reject this of social stigma and rejection?

From your Family Values thread we get the notion that you believe there is no common rubric for family values, but that doesn't mean you, I, and others don't have them.

See, here's the thing; it's oft said in this forum that communication and agreement and negotiation is the basic fabric of a polyamorous fabric. That's the only way it works even in a monogamous relationship! However, society isn't structured to run that way. We have developed over the course of several thousand years multiple signaling and encoded messages as part of a social fabric.

1) The way you talk
2) The way you move
3) The way you dress
4) The things you own
5) The things you do
6) The places you frequent
7) The people you know
8) The places you've been
9) The way you act

You can choose to reject it if you wish, but it isn't as if you aren't aware of these things, and for many people it is an efficient short-hand communication technique. Need help in a store? Look for logos, colored outfits, and uniforms. Need to find a teacher at a school? Look for a specific level of dress (the parents are either dressier or less dressy).

Even at work the concept of a dress code signals the social status of the workers (suits and ties, business casual, casual, etc). Our entire culture then embeds multiple layers of these messages in our lives, media, etc.

So the fact that you see people at Target in red shirts->Afraid of social stigmas. You see people at Lowes with aprons ->Afraid of social stigma. You see people at an office in office-wear ->Afraid of social stigma.

You see parents at schools not wearing slippers & bathrobe ->Afraid of social stigma. You see teachers at school also not wearing yoga pants & tank top ->Afraid of social stigma

Or, at the least, they are aware of the social stigmas and play along because they are afraid of the consequences of social stigma.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-20-2013, 07:37 PM
Vixtoria's Avatar
Vixtoria Vixtoria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatToDo View Post
Yeah, my girlfriend and her husband do the whole poly thing very well. Problem is all the other things that come with being married, kids, families and things of that nature. The relationship I can have with her is very limited.

At the end of the day I have to say that it is a relationship that isn't going anywhere.

I have to admit, reading this really broke my heart. I actually linked my bf to it right away and we had a long discussion about it. The LAST thing I would want is for him to feel that I am somehow holding him back or in a relationship that will go nowhere.

Also the stigma that a poly dating a mono is useless bothers me too. In the end, what bf and I came up with as far as a conclusion is that he doesnt' feel the same way. So at least there's that. Not all mono men feel like it's a relationship that will go nowhere. No, we won't be getting married and we won't be having kids together. Truth is, that's just because of where we both are right now. Anyone I date, male or female, won't be having kids with me.

He knows though, that I will be part of his life and will happily help and spoil his and his wife's kids! So yes, he will marry someone else, have kids with someone else, but that doesn't mean that OUR relationship will go nowhere! It means it's not THAT relationship.
__________________
Me: Late 30s pansexual poly.
DH: My husband of 19 yrs and father of 3 teen girls.
DC: LDR of +4 year
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12-20-2013, 09:03 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 524
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixtoria View Post
I have to admit, reading this really broke my heart. I actually linked my bf to it right away and we had a long discussion about it. The LAST thing I would want is for him to feel that I am somehow holding him back or in a relationship that will go nowhere.

Also the stigma that a poly dating a mono is useless bothers me too. In the end, what bf and I came up with as far as a conclusion is that he doesnt' feel the same way. So at least there's that. Not all mono men feel like it's a relationship that will go nowhere. No, we won't be getting married and we won't be having kids together. Truth is, that's just because of where we both are right now. Anyone I date, male or female, won't be having kids with me.

He knows though, that I will be part of his life and will happily help and spoil his and his wife's kids! So yes, he will marry someone else, have kids with someone else, but that doesn't mean that OUR relationship will go nowhere! It means it's not THAT relationship.
I'm curious if either you or your boyfriend feel that your relationship is going somewhere (and if so, where?) or if it's more that neither of you cares if it just stays exactly as it is right now.

Is he mono? Does he plan on continuing to see you when he meets someone else and marries someone else?
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12-20-2013, 09:54 PM
Vixtoria's Avatar
Vixtoria Vixtoria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 299
Default

I guess a lot of it depends on what you mean by going somewhere. Do you look at all your relationships, your friends, your family, and HAVE to know where it will end up?

Both Hubby and BF identify as mono. BF for a long time didn't really mention our relationship too in depth because of deep religious ties with his family and community. Over the last six months that has drastically changed and he's just open now about it all.

We've discussed him dating and marrying and while I've always said I will back off, step aside, whatever is necessary for him to foster the kind of relationship he wants with another woman, he's now of the mind that when he meets a woman he wants to date, if it's meant to get to the point of marriage that I will be accepted as part of his life. As he stated: "and whoever I marry will be ok with you in my life, because she loves me , so she will love my family and friends."

I think we are both more flexible in how things come without this idea that if he dates things will stay EXACTLY THE SAME for the two of us. People change, life changes, relationships change. It's that way for my husband and I too. There are times you are more NRE infused, and times you are more comfortable and content. There are times you want to spend every moment together, and times a little distance is nice. Being honest and up front is the big thing, and knowing that how someone else feels isn't someone else's FAULT. That's what gets us through and will get us through.

I will be part of his life. If it's not always as a lover or a girlfriend then that is fine, but I will be, and he will be part of mine, of ours.

So we see it going somewhere, we see it continuing and growing and changing and just aren't so worried about it fitting into a specific formula to be considered a relationship or successful.
__________________
Me: Late 30s pansexual poly.
DH: My husband of 19 yrs and father of 3 teen girls.
DC: LDR of +4 year
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-21-2013, 02:10 AM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,161
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatToDo View Post
At the end of the day I have to say that it is a relationship that isn't going anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
But the fact is, this is a relationship that isn't going anywhere.
Where is "anywhere"... and where is "here" in relation to that? Inherent in any statement about a relationship "not going anywhere" is the expectation that there is a goal which should be reached, and that where the relationship is right now is not enough. What expectation does is kill the present moment. And, in reality, the present is all we actually have! So, before discounting a relationship as not being enough, I would ask myself questions about what my relationship gives me right now. Do I feel heard? Do I feel valued? Do I feel respected? If things are good with how my relationships are now, why should I negate that by wishing they are different, ie., "going somewhere?" And why does some fantasy about the future hold more value to me than what is in my life right now?
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein

Last edited by nycindie; 12-21-2013 at 02:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-21-2013, 07:37 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pennsyl-tucky
Posts: 1,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Where is "anywhere"... and where is "here" in relation to that? Inherent in any statement about a relationship "not going anywhere" is the expectation that there is a goal which should be reached, and that where the relationship is right now is not enough. What expectation does is kill the present moment. And, in reality, the present is all we actually have! So, before discounting a relationship as not being enough, I would ask myself questions about what my relationship gives me right now. Do I feel heard? Do I feel valued? Do I feel respected? If things are good with how my relationships are now, why should I negate that by wishing they are different, ie., "going somewhere?" And why does some fantasy about the future hold more value to me than what is in my life right now?
I agree with this. I, myself, prefer to NOT plan out what a relationship is supposed to look like and let it grow, unfettered, into whatever shape it takes.

...and yet...I do have goals and aspirations in my life (financial security, early retirement, travel, etc) and if certain people in my life (aka my husband and my boyfriend) take up those goals and aspirations as their own (and I theirs) then that adds another dimension to our relationship(s). We find ourselves planning a future together, shaping our lives to accommodate these shared ideas.

But, by not having expectations about where a relationship is supposed to go ... we leave the opportunity open for a relationship to "go" anywhere.

JaneQ
__________________
Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (together 21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (together 3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs on this site:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 12-21-2013 at 07:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12-21-2013, 08:01 AM
london london is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: UK - land of the free
Posts: 1,635
Default

I like the idea of dating a mono person who ultimately wants a mono relationship with the understanding that when they meet that person, you'll transition to a friendship.

In reality, I don't think many mono partners would be cool with their partner and you still having a close relationship, especially because you'd still be poly and they'd be worried about their partner reverting to that relationship model and you, the person that offers it.

There's an expectation for people in relationships to have a certain distance with others just so everyone understands their relationship is platonic. Lots of people, even poly people, see no point of keeping up regular contact with an ex. Basically, mono normative culture wouldn't understand the friendship between ex partners who used to be in a poly relationship but now one has gone mono but still wants to be a close friend of their still poly ex. That takes a certain degree of out of the box thinking that I don't believe the average mono person has. Everyone is going to be telling newly mono person that they have to cut ties.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alternative lifestyles, cowboy/girl, dating, monogamy and polyamory, poly dating, trust

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:04 PM.