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  #21  
Old 12-21-2013, 06:32 AM
Monogamish1 Monogamish1 is offline
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Default Chasing - revisited

A couple weeks ago I blogged about not understanding chasing relationships (as poly or as mono)

In another venue today I read where another mono in poly was commenting how her man has no desire for guy friendships - only with girls. and how he always wants friendships only with women he finds sexually attractive, and that she doesn't think he's capable of a truly platonic friendship with a female - he will always want to take things further.

One of the reasons I disabled my OKC and asked P to block for only member to see his profile.. he was telling me he was only seeking platonic with these other women. Was hard /is hard for me to fully believe when other than where he had listed in Looking for "new friends" he was not transparent in any way I could see that it was seeking platonic only.. he described the type of women he found enticing, kept all the questions about sex, kept the q's that said he was always interested in seeking new relationships and that he did "open relationships only." With all that out there, how could I listen to just the words he was telling me about not seeking others as absolute truth when what he put out publicly screamed to me that he was at least in theory open to more? I'm not saying he was lying to me, but actions and my perceptions and my interpretations made it soooo FREAKING hard to fully believe.

And when he couldn't show me tangibly that he was clear. OK - message a poly gal who lists mew friends alongside dating, and get so far in messaging and calls and texts that she wants to come visit, and he hasn't told her clearly?!? WTF!

Honest with me? Honest with her? But most importantly, is he truly honest with himself?

A cousin of mine with a history of life-threatening pregnancy & special needs baby got pregnant. Her mom asked the other daughter - was she trying to get pregnant? & the reply was - If she wasn't using birth control, she wasn't trying not to.

So if he was not transparent & blatantly clear with women who were also seeking relationships beyond platonic, how could they know what his intentions were either? Hedging bets? I don't freaking know. And it KILLS me.
If he doesn't tell them, is he wanting them to want him, or to be hopeful that it may go in that direction? Is he afraid they won't invest the energy into messaging & getting close if they believe it won't go further?
If his intention is clear to him, why isn't it easy for him to be clear to others, and to be open to me that he is?

If I tell the truth I have nothing to hide. If I try to hide stuff, it doesn't necessarily mean that I have lied... but it does plant huge seeds of doubt.

And these seeds of doubt that are sown in my head makes it that much harder for me to get over the whole mess. I want to trust him. I want to believe every word he tells me. Yet at same time, gimme proof that he can do it (at least until that trust is built back up.) I do believe, but niggling seeds of doubt - is that being realistic or over the top insecure?
P wants me to pledge my undying 100% belief in him. I want to.
No he didn't cheat on me physically as far as it got, so does that mean there was no real betrayal?
Trust is built and earned after it has been damaged. I gave it freely and it was crushed. Not just here, but seeds from when a former friend tried to trap him. Just be transparent. You never have to remember who you told what & no chance of getting trapped in anything except honesty & truth - which yes - those can hurt & kill a relationship too.
Grrr - why can't i just let this go?
Beats head against wall
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  #22  
Old 12-21-2013, 06:26 PM
Monogamish1 Monogamish1 is offline
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Default Peaceful for the moment

Last night was so hard.
Stayed up until after I had fallen asleep at the computer. Went to bed & didn't even bother getting undressed.
He never did message goodnight, and I was thankful not to be reminded.

I did message good morning & all the loving reassurances he seems to need of how I feel. he responded he loved me. But I am hurting.
Even forcing myself to see him as FWB, I just couldn't cope if I were to think of him in terms of partner or even as a "Steady" boyfriend... though he is my one and only and I offer him all that I have.

This morning still shaky. Then I saw him tagged in some pics being silly and loving. And just knowing that I couldn't even be a fly on the wall to enjoy his happiness, it sent me into a sobbing breakdown. I can get to the point of being OK that I am whole without and on my own, but those reminders when I want us to share a full life. Damn mono thinking, I'm broken.

So to cope, I messaged and told him not come this weekend. "Please don't come this weekend, let me get to a point where I can cope with being along for Christmas instead of the freshly raw letdown that comes every time you leave and it takes so much time for me to recover." I did not do this to hurt him. I know he thinks of me and misses me when he is away.

He was hurt.

He chooses to leave me every time. And here, when I do choose to not be with him simply to protect my heart - perhaps that possible hurt and rejection is how I feel every time he does go. - I try to be happy for P that he has a home and love without me, because he does and I do not want him to give any of that up.
Dammit, I dont think I can handle this emotional roller coaster replayed over and over and over right now, I want at least Christmas to be a more even keel for me.

Even now, I feel more peaceful, knowing that I won't have to try to cope regaining that space where I am OK with just knowing he is happy and I am whole on my own - because I am and not just because I have to be. There would not be enough time for me to get there emotionally for time with my family on Christmas day, and I REALLY want to enjoy that day of connection with people who love me.

Dammit, I forgot to remind him the offer of showing up at the family event was still open. I know he won't - he will have the kids visiting. But I want him to know I didn't change that offer as well. So I will message & remind him & ask that if he doesn't not to let me know so I do not feel the rejection and if he does to just show up, not telling me so I don't anticipate and be let down if it doesn't happen.

Time to load car so I can drop off the gifts for his kids & wife so they have them to open Christmas day. Today is my best chance to do it with the big storm rolling in.

Think Zen
I am whole on my own.
I love P, but I am protecting my heart
If he chooses to feel rejected, it is his choice - just as it is my choice to feel rejected every time he chooses to leave me. I own my feelings of rejection - he does not reject me, I choose to feel rejected and can work to find emotions to replace those.
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  #23  
Old 12-25-2013, 06:25 AM
Monogamish1 Monogamish1 is offline
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Default I *was* Zen

I was peaceful. I was good.
He sounded like a basket case, feeling rejected. I felt guilty, so I gave up my peace and asked him to come visit anyway.
It was a nice visit. Didn't get to the relationship agreement or to sorting boxes.
But my fears were realized when he left this morning and I am facing the holiday feeling thrown away.
P told me he needs me. But it feels like that is only when it is convenient for him.
Truth, I don't "need" him - I WANT him. But it is so hard to go from wanting and enjoying him when does choose to be with me, to feeling left behind and rejected when he is gone. I shed a few tears this morning when it hit me he was leaving so soon after we would get out of bed and I had no clue as to when I would see him again, other than for our counseling appt on Monday. He pushed asking why the tears, and I was honest.. he did the plan ahead and say he would be here Fri & Sat nights.

After he left I took a long nap and cried myself to sleep. I went to a friend's house for a few hours tonight - Christmas Eve, and almost lost it there when his former domme asked me why P wasn't with me, fortunately the buddy recognized and redirected the topic.

So I'm trying to pretend P is on military assignment and has no choice but to leave me behind. Not really working well.
I checked my email. A former "friend" that had tried to trap him in a lie on OKC emailed, I had told her to never contact me again after her deceptions. But I though maybe over a year or no contact had made her remorseful. I was wrong. I didn't reply & don't intend to even open any future emails from her. I don't know if she just peeked or if she is up to shennanigans again, but she reminded me how I am no longer on OKC and P is, mentioning how it seemed he was "highly active." How she derived that, I'm not going to ask. She seemed to be gloating that she was right that I would never be enough for him. F*** it hurts to be reminded.

I did give P a heads up, just in case she was doing more than watching how often he was online or the notice on OKC for how likely someone may be to reply. I don't want him paranoid if/when someone new messages him, but he has right to know.

Why does he NEED be to on there? Why does he NEED to forge connections with ONLY women who "entice" him? I don't know. My mono leaning brain just doesn't understand, and I feel so rejected. Back to me when poly just being open to possibility of other loves vs "chasing" - chasing is not wrong, but it is not something I understand or would want for myself.

God, I hope my family does not remind me I am without P tomorrow. He does know he is welcome, and I did request that he not tell me ahead if he may or may not show up. No expectations, no disappointment. And if the answer is going to be no, no feeling rejected ahead of time.

Am I that freaking codependant? I give up my Zen for his?
Love is NOT tit for tat, I did not ask for the distance to hurt him, but to protect me leading up to today & tomorrow, to allow me a holiday without tears. I had it in my grasp, and gave it up for him because he was needy. Why couldn't I put myself first? That is #2 on my affirmations list, and I still couldn't do it when he appeared to be hurting. Does he ever choose to take the rout that would cause himself emotional pain so that I could be more at peace?
Brain overload & over-analyzing. Time for teddy & sleep.
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  #24  
Old 12-26-2013, 02:51 AM
Monogamish1 Monogamish1 is offline
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Default Merry Christmas

P didn't come to my family event. I had asked him not to let me know yes or no ahead so I wouldn't have the time to focus on the added rejection when the answer was no. When we got close to the gift exchange I let him know, and when some time passed without reply, messaged that I was allowing myself to assume that he was not showing up, and asked if my assumption was correct. It took him two replies to actually confirm I was correct.
Why was that so hard?! Just answer the f'ing question, then go into justifications if you need, instead of hinting.

Yes, I was feeling hurt and rejected. I had to remind myself that he is NOT my partner and I had no right to feel hurt, and to thank him for honoring my request to not tell me ahead and save me pain and rejected feelings that would have haunted me leading up to the party.

If I didn't care, if I didn't want him there to share in my family celebration, it would not have hurt. Thankfully only one aunt cornered me to ask where P was.

Now I'm home and my son and his GF are gone to spend the rest of the evening with her mother, so I am alone with my thoughts.
Alone to sort through the goodies and pick up. Alone and wishing I had someone who could be with me to touch and snuggle and recap the holiday. I have but I don't have. I want. I ache. If I could choose between feeling pain and feeling nothing, right now I would choose nothing.

I am reminded of a poem called The Therapist. I can't remember it all right now, nor find it with an online search, but it has a refrain of

I am not permanent in your life,
and you are not permanent in mine.
But let me walk beside you
for a little while.
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  #25  
Old 12-26-2013, 05:12 PM
Monogamish1 Monogamish1 is offline
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Default Peanut butter, headaches, & choices

This came to me when messaging P on his break today...

Pain is a funny thing.
Like when you have a headache and all you can focus on is how much the pain hurts.
I really like creamy peanut butter.
Eating peanut butter gives me a headache.
Sometimes I still eat peanut butter.
Doesn't make the the headache any less painful.
I have only myself to blame for the pain. Peanut butter was just being itself.
It was my choice to eat it that caused my pain.

I wish my love and desire for P was as simple as that.
Except, peanut butter does not feel pushed aside or rejected if I do not eat it. Peanut butter does not care if I do not buy it, or if it sits on the shelf untouched, and is not hurt if I choose another food for my source of protein or yet another food for the creamy mouth-feel.

It is easy to set aside peanut butter. Yes, I still long for it. I recall the flavors, texture, aroma. But if I never have another Reese's peanut butter cup or PB&honey sandwich, my life will easily go on, with just an occasional pang of longing when I see the jar on the shelf in the store.
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  #26  
Old 01-02-2014, 05:56 AM
Monogamish1 Monogamish1 is offline
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Default Happy New Year ?

Hoping 2014 finds everyone better than 2013.

No Idea where my life is headed.
Obamacare wouldn't let me register for insurance saying I qualify for medicaid, but my state says no. So I'm still flying uninsured. That was so much easier when I had my ass of a spouse. I do have vision insurance, so next week I get that checked - may finally need some eyewear. Bleah.

P blames his ADD for his end our communication and relationship issues.
Our previous counselor moved on, so we got a new one. First session was Monday. So he wants to learn about out history.
Nothing like rehashing everything that hurts. For a God-lover, he was not judgmental, and we liked that he did not make us feel rushed us out when it was time to go.

P felt that since at end of session there was no time for rebuttal or his side of what I had just brought up that he was made out to be "a bad guy." I assured him I would make sure he got his say at the start of next session, whenever that might be.

When I brought up my feelings about his seeking "enticing" women on OKC, he talked about how he connects more easily with women. NP, I connect more easily with men. He mentioned how he has few to no friends and OKC gives him a chance to make connections. But why does it have to be only with women that he might be "enticed" by? I didn't bring it up, but wonder why he can't he find a photography or brewing or journalism forum and find folks there to talk to, folks who aren't specifically seeking emotional and physical connections, (and folks who can't look at his Q's and see that he likes oral sex or the like?)

When we left, there was no one at desk to make next appt, so I wonder if it will even be on his radar to do so or if I have be the bitch and stay on top of him to do so? (his EAP sessions, he has to make the appts) He didnt try to hols my hand on way out or ask to chat for a bit, though it WAS freaking cold. So I got in my car and drove home. No kiss goodbye. No comfort or reassurance. Felt like crap!!!!!!!!!!!!

In session P admitted that he and his wife have a just friends relationship. Described as Best friends. And yet 99% of what I hear from him about her even after he agreed not to discuss his marital frustrations with me is about how he has to drop everything and haul her ass around and how she doesn't show any appreciation for him. I know he occasionally asks me to reassure him that I love him. Only once in 2.5 years did he ever mention that she said she loved him & that was after her long term affair become poly bf dumped her. So later I messaged and asked (if he were comfortable answering) if she replies in the affirmative if he ever asks her the same Q. He said she only replies "yes" and then he came back and added, but never says "I love you." I thanked him for being comfortable answering. Then he backpedaled, and justified her actions/inactions in that regard that she wasn't from a family that expressed emotion. I wish he had just left it as she replies "Yes."

He has agreed that next time we get together that the FIRST thing we will do is start working on that relationship agreement, that he has promised so many other times. We shall see if that actually happens, or if once again everything else is more important than actually defining where we are. Blames ADD, and me for not reminding him. Just J... C....., I HAVE reminded & begged.
I did reminders and begging too freaking much with my ex. I am NOT the man's parent. I am NOT responsible for him. HE decides what his his priorities are.

When I got home I was cold and emotionally numb. He messages and asked how I was. I told him, Feeling like it was the end come closer. I want to trust him. But even the last night he was here, and I saw OKC as the top website he visits online when he went to google, it crushed me, and I guess I really dont trust I wont be hurt again as much I intellectually want to trust unconditionally. He is unwilling to tangibly rebuild that in a way I can relate to. So I guess it would be best to say goodbye to the thought of us being partners? He disagreed.

**** I'm not throwing in towel and walking away. but if that is what it takes for us both to find happiness, we will decide together.

Tuesday came. Along with it a visit from my last lover, whom I have not seen in person in almost 4 years. We had a nice lunch, then P came to the house and the boys had a beer and we talked.
And I rubbed their feet. I had never before rubbed feet from two different people at once. It was fascial comparison heaven. For a few moments before they left we found ourselves all 3 on the couch, and I got them both stroking my hair. Heavenly!!!!!! even if for less a minute.

**** I don't want sexual poly, but neither do I want to give up moments like that. I doubt I would ever willingly get moments like that from a massively mono partner.

Our intention has been earlier lunch, boys for a beer, and then P and I talk us. But visitor arrived late, and the beer & chat ended up lasting until P needed to leave as well. Sigh. At least it was a nice afternoon.

P left first (had to get the wife "and drag her ass around" - sigh, why did he have to add that disparaging remark in.) Visitor have me a kiss, a nice hug, with a grope and a grind. As much as he had been a top lover and is very much in my heart - I don't wanna go that route again with him unless he could be a full partner and not in a position to be hurting his platonic partner with the relationship (she was the one ok with either love or sex, but not both with same other.) I *was* aroused when visitor left, but the desire was only for P.

But there was to be no time to lament, because the bell rang. Dinner with a boy who had crushed on me 27 years ago and just recently joined Facebook and looked me up. Flowers, very sweet. Nice dinner. Stayed and watched Strange Brew, and we caught up on our lives. Was so glad I had hadn't had sex with him back then - turn out he had the clap at the time he was pursuing me.
It was very nice to think that he carried a torch and the memories for all these years. And a bit sad that it was for someone who did not in return. He was so touched that he almost cried when I said I still had his mother's stamp collection that he had given me.

**** I'm not that special, or at least I don't see myself as that special.

I was honest about having lived poly and being mildly domme. He said he didn't believe me, that I was pulling his leg. Sigh. I wasn't about to take him upstairs & show him the bag o' toys or the restraints attached to the bed, but I did show him a couple pics of me with kissing a another guy while the (ex)hubby sat smiling at us. His choice to disbelieve.
A nice evening. Connecting as friends. Nothing romantic. Nothing sexual. A buddy hug when he left. I hope he finds love, and I hope he does call again. Was a very relaxed time.
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  #27  
Old 01-07-2014, 02:15 AM
Monogamish1 Monogamish1 is offline
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Default Mixed signals

The next visit has come and gone.
Our relationship expectations talk never occurred, at least not as I expected.
Upon arrival we spent the rest of the evening revamping his resume for a job out of state, which would be a great opportunity for him - although it is out of state. Once again, from what he reports, the wife is not willing to even discuss unless he actually gets the job. No encouragement. In my mind's eye I can almost see her rolling her eyes.
It aches to feel that pain, even second-hand My ex was similarly un-supportive.
And once again, I wonder if he were to get the job, would she follow him. Not something I wish to dwell upon.
So I support and encourage his dreams.

What of me if he were to get it and move away? If he were my partner, I would follow in a heartbeat. I can work anywhere with my profession and be successful. But we are not partners, so I do not know if I would follow or stay where I am... moving is expensive and risky. My last two moves were to flee heart-wrenching situations - one a great career opportunity made leaving the pain a no-brainer, and the other move was for my physical and emotional safety. I would miss him, the man I consider the love of my life, but I would survive.

Our talk?
No, didn't get to the expectations document. But it was an interesting talk.
He says he considers my his girlfriend, and that he is essentially "going steady" with me, while I consider him simply a friend, with benefits, who has the potential to be more.

P was right when he said he gets the feeling that I do not want him to leave clothes here. Coping with his absence would be that much harder if I were to think of him as more than someone who visits. We talked about how I must intellectually consider him a casual visitor to emotionally get through, even while my actions and emotions speak differently. Yes, I agree - there are mixed signals - I want you, I don't want you.

I must try to convince myself I do not want him every time he is gone.
Never had that feeling when I identified as poly.
It was always clear - I love XXXX, but this is my time with ZZZZ.
P says he believes I could do poly again if I were in the center and "in control." I tend to disagree.
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  #28  
Old 01-10-2014, 06:32 AM
Monogamish1 Monogamish1 is offline
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Default Over my head - considering a move with P, buying a house

P submitted resume for a dream job.
Out of state.
Wants me to join him.
No clue what his wife (I'll call her PW) will do. Go. Stay. Divorce? Stay & go later? He hasn't pushed. She doesn't like change.

I'm nuts.
I'd actually like to go.
Scary - very.

I'd keep my home here - per my divorce I have to house my son through college & he is done this summer, and then he could rent it cheap or I could rent it to someone else.

I am not comfortable renting for other than short term unless housing market convinces me otherwise (it hasn't.) I once bought a house for what was *supposed* to be only an 18 month stay because market was perfect for it.

P wants to co-mingle funds & buy a home together, for the two of us in new city.

Fear:
If something happens to P or to the potential "us" - I would want to know I could still afford to live in my home.

Fear:
If we bought a home together, and PW ran up or accrued bills that P is legally obligated to cover, or if they divorced and PW wanted her $$ legal share of he home, that I would be forced to buy her/them out and would not be able to afford to & be forced to sell myself.

My solution A:
I buy a home that I can afford on my own income/resources. Limited, but definitely do-able in today's market with a fixer. And P can live with me splitting all other living expenses (except TV - I would rather live without it)

My solution B:
I agreed in theory that I would be willing to co-mingle funds on real estate if PW were willing to sign legal papers that if she ever wanted/needed the house sold so she could access the marital funds invested in it, that she would have to wait until I sell it to get her $.
Is this even legally possible?

P is overwhelmed to point where he commented he wanted to withdraw his resume.
I'm frustrated. One smallish yet significant part of the reason I broke up with P 5 months ago was his asking me to look for a job in my former city and move away & he promised to follow, in part so he could figure out if PW actually loved him. I would NOT have any part in that game. After I refused, he apparently gave up trying to figure that one out on his own, assuring me they were solid and very happy living platonically as "best friends". (I wish I didn'y have an opinion on that & could trust those words at face value - yet he says other words that contradict.)

Could P afford to move by himself & still support PW? She has her own job, own potential access to health insurance. Would she even need him to still kick in for bills there, or still expect it if he lived far away with his "own"/separate bills? They are legally bound financially.

Why should I even be asking myself that. Their relationship should be their FREAKING business & not mine.

Right now as while I consider him simply as a FWB, he visits me a night or two a week and only contributes financially by buying groceries for half of shared meals. I won't even consider him a boyfriend, much less a partner, in part because then I would be frustrated by him not kicking in financially (plus now he takes his laundry home)

/End rant
(for tonight)
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  #29  
Old 01-14-2014, 09:21 PM
Monogamish1 Monogamish1 is offline
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Default Didn't get the job ~ lessons learned

P did not get the job. It had been looking so good.
He came for a one night visit a few hours after he got the news.

What did I learn?

I learned that yes, I would want and be willing to tag along, even though I do not currently consider him more than a visitor.

I learned that he values and appreciates my opinions more than I had known.

I learned that even if he were willing to live with me full time, I would be unwilling to comingle assets in real estate unless he were single.

We discussed how our parents managed finances and how we approach/ed this in our own marriages. He now knows that even if we were legally married I would want each of us to have some of our "own" assets with which to do with as we pleased without needing to seek approval from the other. I have always had this and can't fathom having to beg permission for something ultimately insignificant.

I encouraged him to continue the dialog with his wife as to whether or not she will follow when he ultimately does find a job in the field he trained for, rather than letting it drop as he has before. Odds are slim to none he will find it where he lives now.

We discussed salary, and how he doesn't want to work for less or even same as he makes now, that reality is he probably would to start... But the tradeoff of being in a positive work environment where one is happy is well worth it.
I helped him find a job search site with entry level listings, and encouraged him to start earnestly applying to those. And I am sponsoring some ads in programs for brewing events to say he is looking for work, I consider it an investment in someone I believe in. Why not marry the career you want to a company in an industry you love the fruits of?

Throughout this, I am reminded of myself. How my ex~hubby discouraged my dreams outright and when not to Spooty, at least did not offer the slightest encouragement. It was my Poly partner and friends who kept me bouyant. Had I let the hubby's lack of enthusiasm rain on my parade, instead of going forward under the umbrellas of those who showed me encouragement, I would not have had twenty years of success and contentment in my work.

Last edited by Monogamish1; 01-14-2014 at 09:25 PM. Reason: spelling errors (blamed on autocorrect)
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  #30  
Old 01-18-2014, 02:19 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monogamish1 View Post
He now knows that even if we were legally married I would want each of us to have some of our "own" assets with which to do with as we pleased without needing to seek approval from the other. I have always had this and can't fathom having to beg permission for something ultimately insignificant.
Just a quick comment to say that I ABSOLUTELY agree with this! I think there area various ways that it can work depending on the people involved. MrS and I have always done this - although they shape of how it was done has fluxed over time (depending on our circumstances, who was working, who was in school, etc.) Now that Dude is part of the household, we have worked that in as well.

If they want to spend their "fun money" on new speakers and I want to spend mine on books...it's all good
__________________
Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
TT: poly male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
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