Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #141  
Old 12-18-2013, 02:46 PM
YouAreHere's Avatar
YouAreHere YouAreHere is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SoNH
Posts: 844
Default

My observations and experience have been different, and your response reminds me of when my mom used to say, "They say things about you because they're jealous of you."

Well, no. They said things because they want to fit in with their peer group, and I didn't fit in, so I got to be a target instead. Us versus them. They sure as hell didn't want what I had.

My friends who've had negative things to say about Poly don't want to BE poly. They've taken umbrage at the whole idea of poly relationships, and believe they're disrespectful and that I must be "getting hurt" somehow, or being taken advantage of, and I'm not able to see it for myself. They are, in their own way, being protective of me, and getting indignant FOR me. Some have taken it so far as to ostracize him from their lives.

They sure as hell don't want to BE me, nor do they want to be P.

Maybe your experience is different, but you can't make an absolute statement based on your anecdotal experience (and neither can I).
__________________
Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids (DanceGirl, 13; and PokéGirl, 10), two cats, one house, many projects.
Chops: My partner. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
Slightly more polished blog with a mono/poly focus: From Baltic to Boardwalk
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 12-18-2013, 04:30 PM
ColorsWolf's Avatar
ColorsWolf ColorsWolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: CA, U.S.A.
Posts: 362
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YouAreHere View Post
My observations and experience have been different, and your response reminds me of when my mom used to say, "They say things about you because they're jealous of you."

Well, no. They said things because they want to fit in with their peer group, and I didn't fit in, so I got to be a target instead. Us versus them. They sure as hell didn't want what I had.

My friends who've had negative things to say about Poly don't want to BE poly. They've taken umbrage at the whole idea of poly relationships, and believe they're disrespectful and that I must be "getting hurt" somehow, or being taken advantage of, and I'm not able to see it for myself. They are, in their own way, being protective of me, and getting indignant FOR me. Some have taken it so far as to ostracize him from their lives.

They sure as hell don't want to BE me, nor do they want to be P.

Maybe your experience is different, but you can't make an absolute statement based on your anecdotal experience (and neither can I).
I didn't make an absolute statement, I said this, "Usually whenever people get upset at anything to do with Marriage at all of OTHER people, it is because they themselves have a secret desire they are suppressing.~"

I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound like those kind of people are really your "friends".~ If they disregard your happiness, what you want, don't even TRY to understand your relationships, and assume that they know what is best for you and NOT you then proceed to alienate some one who means some thing special to you: that doesn't sound like "friendship" to me.~

The fact that you defend their behaviour in the way that you do seems borderline delusional to me.~ But I am not going to tell you what to do nor play mind games like it seems these people are or were doing, because it is your life NOT "mine".~

Sincerely,

ColorsWolf
__________________
Love yourself, you are beautiful!~ ^_^

*Believe in yourself, you can do anything*!~ ^_^

Appreciate every thing, every thing is precious.~


Last edited by ColorsWolf; 12-18-2013 at 04:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 12-18-2013, 06:37 PM
YouAreHere's Avatar
YouAreHere YouAreHere is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SoNH
Posts: 844
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColorsWolf View Post
I didn't make an absolute statement, I said this, "Usually whenever people get upset at anything to do with Marriage at all of OTHER people, it is because they themselves have a secret desire they are suppressing.~"
Fair enough, but I don't know how usual it is, either. If it is in your experience, then so be it. It isn't in mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColorsWolf View Post
I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound like those kind of people are really your "friends".~ If they disregard your happiness, what you want, don't even TRY to understand your relationships, and assume that they know what is best for you and NOT you then proceed to alienate some one who means some thing special to you: that doesn't sound like "friendship" to me.~

The fact that you defend their behaviour in the way that you do seems borderline delusional to me.~ But I am not going to tell you what to do nor play mind games like it seems these people are or were doing, because it is your life NOT "mine".~

Sincerely,

ColorsWolf
No, instead you'll just tell me that I'm teetering on delusional. Got it. Thanks.

Anyway, the fact that they do not agree with my decision doesn't mean that they aren't my friends. When this was happening, it was during a fairly emotionally volatile time for me, and they saw what they felt was something that was harming me, when in fact it wasn't really that simple, and I really just needed some time to adjust to the "new normal" (recently divorced, with two children, and just starting a new relationship with my poly partner, when that was all new ground for me - I tried to do a lot at once ).

They did what they did out of caring. I do know that. They also don't talk about it with me anymore, as it's been a couple years and things are going pretty well... they keep their opinions (mostly) to themselves, but honestly, if they disagree with something I'm doing, it's not necessarily a bad thing to talk about it.

One who did ostracize P, I will concede is more of an acquaintance, and I think she sees the poly relationship structure as inherently abusive somehow - that I "deserve better" and am being "disrespected". Shrug. She doesn't talk about it, really, and I don't bring it up. The other friend had a separate falling out with P that this added to. I don't think the poly relationship was the real reason behind it, but it added fuel to the fire.

Anyway, we've gone pretty far off-topic. You and I can agree to disagree on this one. I still do not see their opinion on Poly relationships being anything relating to them wanting to be Poly themselves. What I usually end up seeing is either a variant of, "Oh HELL no!" or "Well, I couldn't do that." The one friend who actually decided to have a poly relationship of her own was pretty non-judgmental over the whole thing.
__________________
Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids (DanceGirl, 13; and PokéGirl, 10), two cats, one house, many projects.
Chops: My partner. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
Slightly more polished blog with a mono/poly focus: From Baltic to Boardwalk
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 12-20-2013, 01:15 AM
ColorsWolf's Avatar
ColorsWolf ColorsWolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: CA, U.S.A.
Posts: 362
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YouAreHere View Post
Fair enough, but I don't know how usual it is, either. If it is in your experience, then so be it. It isn't in mine.



No, instead you'll just tell me that I'm teetering on delusional. Got it. Thanks.

Anyway, the fact that they do not agree with my decision doesn't mean that they aren't my friends. When this was happening, it was during a fairly emotionally volatile time for me, and they saw what they felt was something that was harming me, when in fact it wasn't really that simple, and I really just needed some time to adjust to the "new normal" (recently divorced, with two children, and just starting a new relationship with my poly partner, when that was all new ground for me - I tried to do a lot at once ).

They did what they did out of caring. I do know that. They also don't talk about it with me anymore, as it's been a couple years and things are going pretty well... they keep their opinions (mostly) to themselves, but honestly, if they disagree with something I'm doing, it's not necessarily a bad thing to talk about it.

One who did ostracize P, I will concede is more of an acquaintance, and I think she sees the poly relationship structure as inherently abusive somehow - that I "deserve better" and am being "disrespected". Shrug. She doesn't talk about it, really, and I don't bring it up. The other friend had a separate falling out with P that this added to. I don't think the poly relationship was the real reason behind it, but it added fuel to the fire.

Anyway, we've gone pretty far off-topic. You and I can agree to disagree on this one. I still do not see their opinion on Poly relationships being anything relating to them wanting to be Poly themselves. What I usually end up seeing is either a variant of, "Oh HELL no!" or "Well, I couldn't do that." The one friend who actually decided to have a poly relationship of her own was pretty non-judgmental over the whole thing.
Perhaps you are right, I do not know: they are after all "your friends" and this is "your life", so you decide what to do with your life and how to feel about things.~

I just hope and wish positive fortune to you as I do for all.~

Also, I didn't claim your "friends" are Jealous of you like I said before, my conclusions about others before this discussion about your "friends" started were drawn from my outside observations, but that is just 1 perspective of such matters when there can be possibly an infinite number of such.~

I'm sorry I was confusingly vague, I shall try to be more specific that my statements are not meant to be absolutes but just 1 of a possibly infinite number of perspectives in my future posts.~ ^_^

Love,

ColorsWolf
__________________
Love yourself, you are beautiful!~ ^_^

*Believe in yourself, you can do anything*!~ ^_^

Appreciate every thing, every thing is precious.~

Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 12-20-2013, 01:31 PM
YouAreHere's Avatar
YouAreHere YouAreHere is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SoNH
Posts: 844
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColorsWolf View Post
Also, I didn't claim your "friends" are Jealous of you like I said before, my conclusions about others before this discussion about your "friends" started were drawn from my outside observations, but that is just 1 perspective of such matters when there can be possibly an infinite number of such.~
Nope - I was the one who used the "jealousy" analogy. Your post was more akin to "they have bad things to say about it because they have a secret desire to BE it" and my brain immediately flipped to "they say those things because they're jealous of you". It felt the same way - well meaning, but not right (in my case).

The problem with both sentiments (IMO) is that it sets up a premise that makes it easy to avoid looking at the real reasons people have a hard time with an idea. They hate poly? They must want a second relationship! Aha! Wouldn't THAT be ironic!

Well... no. It's not usually that simple. There are a myriad of reasons why people would be against such a thing. If (in my friends' case) they see something they feel is hurting their friends, then Poly is obviously a "BAD THING". If they don't like it for religious reasons, that's another completely different case. There could be other reasons. Each reason, if you're going to discuss it with people, needs a different argument against it. Is it abusive? Well, no, not in my case, because of A,B,C. Is it against your religion, well okay, but your religion is not mine. Is it a guy who can't keep his dick in his pants? Well, in our relationship, it's more x,y,z and not that at all... or, who cares if he likes variety in his sex life, if everyone else is okay with it?

Reducing the argument to, "Well, they just want that for themselves," doesn't allow us to get to any of those reasons, and you really can't have a good discussion with people when you come at them with this argument. "Oh, you just want to be me," doesn't get taken well, and doesn't show the other person that you respect them and their opinion (which goes miles in trying to get them to respect you and yours).

Remember, I'm mono. Being told that any of the problems I had with poly in the beginning were because I just want a second partner of my own is laughable. I don't want that. Truly. And if anyone ever said that to me, depending on who it is, I may just shut the argument off right there, because it's obvious they don't want to hear the real reason behind any of it. May as well move on to talking about the weather. Or sports.

Hey, how about them Mets?
__________________
Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids (DanceGirl, 13; and PokéGirl, 10), two cats, one house, many projects.
Chops: My partner. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
Slightly more polished blog with a mono/poly focus: From Baltic to Boardwalk
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 12-20-2013, 01:36 PM
YouAreHere's Avatar
YouAreHere YouAreHere is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SoNH
Posts: 844
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColorsWolf View Post
I call the people that I love and who love me to my "Lovers", because I like that word and I am using it properly.~ Any one who thinks this word automatically has negative connotations no matter who uses it is an ignorant person, an uneducated person, or is a fool to me.~
And why be so "on the attack" about people who don't like using the word "lover"? I don't like using it. I feel that it implies something more sexual than I'm comfortable discussing in general conversation. Partner or boyfriend works better for me.

Am I ignorant, uneducated, or a fool? I think my definition of "uneducated" and "ignorant" would be different from yours in this case. I've certainly heard the reasons for using the term, and I reject them for myself. I'm not ignorant of those reasons, and education has nothing to do with it.

Perhaps, though, arguing on the Internet about it is a bit foolish. I will concede that one.
__________________
Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids (DanceGirl, 13; and PokéGirl, 10), two cats, one house, many projects.
Chops: My partner. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
Slightly more polished blog with a mono/poly focus: From Baltic to Boardwalk
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 12-22-2013, 07:05 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pennsyl-tucky
Posts: 1,131
Default

Responding to the gist of the thread (rather than recent posts):

I use "husband" and "boyfriend" because those are the most readily understood terms. Although at this point "long-term life-partner" and "other significant other" (or "other partner") would probably be more accurate...and I hate the term "boyfriend" (soooooo jr high/high school). When talking to people who know us, I just use names.

For VV I would use "girlfriend" "lover" "FWBs" or "lover friend" - depending on the circumstances - there is a long history there and she will sometimes refer to me as her "long distance girlfriend", but I usually refer to her as "My VV". For MsJ I could use "FW occcassional B" "special friend *wink*" etc. But usually refer to her by name or as "Rube's Wife". (She would refer to everyone other than MrS in my life as my "lover" however... - as in "How many lovers do you have, anyway, girl?"

My relationship with Lotus is still evolving - so "FWB" or "lover-friend" or "Dude's GF that I'm involved with" would all apply. I think the possibility of us being "girlfriends" might be evolving ... but I'm usually pretty slow on the uptake in that regard. I think she is awesome and would want to be friends with her even if there were no sexual interest or she wasn't involved with Dude (incidentally, I think that MrS feels the same way).

It's the boyfriend/girlfriend nomenclature that really trips me up - there is such a huge range of what people mean by those terms...
__________________
Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 12-22-2013, 03:47 PM
bookbug bookbug is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
Responding to the gist of the thread (rather than recent posts):

I use "husband" and "boyfriend" because those are the most readily understood terms. Although at this point "long-term life-partner" and "other significant other" (or "other partner") would probably be more accurate...and I hate the term "boyfriend" (soooooo jr high/high school). When talking to people who know us, I just use names.
I am glad to know that I am not the only one who finds gf/bf juvenile.
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 12-23-2013, 01:21 AM
wildflowers wildflowers is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boston area
Posts: 181
Default

I can understand the "juvenile" objection to bf, esp since mine is over 50, but like You Are Here I'm also uncomfortable with "lover", since to me it puts the emphasis on sex. i have nothing against sex - in fact I wish I had more opportunity for it with my bf - but I don't want it to appear that sex is the focus or the reason for the relationship. I guess I could go with love, or sweetie, or any of the terms that I use to him, but here I've just tended to go with bf for clarity and simplicity.
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 12-23-2013, 01:53 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,376
Default

I don't find boyfriend juvenile (I never had one in high school so to me it's still an adult thing) but I hear it with the context of uncommitted. I'm just to used to people saying their wife/husband if they've been together 2 years or more (whether they plan to get married or not) so I really think of it as "this guy I've only just met, and I'm not sure if I want to stay with him yet. It's not that serious".
So if I want to convey the connotations of "this is my partner that I'm seriously involved with" I'll use husband.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boyfriend, fun, girlfriend, language, lover, relationships, word

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:00 AM.