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View Poll Results: How should we tell the Newbie? (please read post before answering)
The Secondary should tell the Newbie right away. 9 81.82%
The Secondary should tell the Newbie after their relationship progresses. 0 0%
You should tell the Newbie ASAP. 0 0%
You should tell the Newbie after her relationship with the Secondary progresses. 0 0%
Everyone should talk about this together ASAP. 2 18.18%
Everyone should talk about this after the relationship between the Newbie and Secondary progresses. 0 0%
You and the Primary should break up with the Secondary. 0 0%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 12-11-2013, 01:37 PM
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It's possible you may need/want to talk to Newbie personally at some point. I'd consider telling Secondary this and asking him to let you know if/when he's filled Newbie in on the nature of your major relationships. Then if/when you get word of that from him, ask him to give Newbie your contact info and to let her know you'd like to meet/greet her, as close to in-person as you can get.

Not sure of all the details of that advice yet, but the point is, talking to Newbie directly would be a way of "knowing" (as much as one can know) whether Secondary has told Newbie what you really needed him to tell her in order for you to stay in a romantic relationship with him.

Not even 100% sure you'd want/need to talk to Newbie yourself, but it's something to consider.

Hope all works out alright.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2013, 01:52 PM
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Emm Emm is offline
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Any option that involves waiting until a relationship is established before telling a new partner about existing partners (such as #2, 4 or 6 in your poll) is, in my opinion, highly unethical. It relies on using an emotional bond forged under false pretences to make someone choose something they may not otherwise accept. Bait 'n switch is no way to start a relationship.
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:07 PM
Azzy Azzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
It's possible you may need/want to talk to Newbie personally at some point. I'd consider telling Secondary this and asking him to let you know if/when he's filled Newbie in on the nature of your major relationships. Then if/when you get word of that from him, ask him to give Newbie your contact info and to let her know you'd like to meet/greet her, as close to in-person as you can get.

Not sure of all the details of that advice yet, but the point is, talking to Newbie directly would be a way of "knowing" (as much as one can know) whether Secondary has told Newbie what you really needed him to tell her in order for you to stay in a romantic relationship with him.
Thank you for the input. I'm going to cool off for a few more days, then check in with the (now former? ha) Secondary. If he's told the Newbie what he said he would, I'm going to take him back and do as you advised. I think I'm just going to send a Facebook message to the Newbie at first, as that is how I've communicated with her in the few times I've talked to her before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emm
Any option that involves waiting until a relationship is established before telling a new partner about existing partners (such as #2, 4 or 6 in your poll) is, in my opinion, highly unethical. It relies on using an emotional bond forged under false pretences to make someone choose something they may not otherwise accept. Bait 'n switch is no way to start a relationship.
I see your point and am glad we did not go with those options.

Also, while all this was going on, another poly person has asked both me and the Primary on a date for this weekend. I know newer poly people are sometimes warned about triads, but this person doesn't seem like the unicorn type to me, so the Primary and I have accepted.

This is sure an interesting time for our relationship
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  #14  
Old 12-12-2013, 11:26 PM
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Welcome to the board.
Please feel free to lurk and browse.
There is a LOT of helpful information in "goldennuggets". Worth taking time to read.

Please be sure to read through the guidelines so you know what the expectations are.

The board is an open forum, where anyone can (and will) share their opinions. So keep this in mind if you post questions or seek advice. Any given opinion may not fit for your situation and that's totally ok. You can ignore any posts that don't interest you. You can also block any posters you feel a need not to continue reading.

If you encounter any spam or offensive posts, please report them. The mods will continue to do our best to address all reported posts in a timely manner.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please feel free to private message a moderator (of which I am one). We will do our best to help.
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  #15  
Old 12-17-2013, 07:26 PM
Azzy Azzy is offline
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Thanks for the welcome message, LovingRadiance. I checked out the Golden Nuggets section and wow, there is great stuff in there

To update on my situation, after getting back to the (former) Secondary after a week of no contact, during which the only request I had left him with was to simply explain my relationship with him to the Newbie and get her approval or disapproval, I came back to pretty much the same situation. The Secondary basically just said that he told the Newbie that he had previously been in a "romantically involved relationship" with me. I asked whether the Newbie had indicated her comprehension and given approval for an ongoing relationship, and then he started being really vague again. He just assured me that he loves me and wants to continue being in a relationship with me, but wouldn't say anything concrete about the Newbie.

So, I decided to follow kdt26417's advice and talk to the Newbie myself. With the Primary and Secondary helping, I wrote the Newbie a short letter explaining the situation, asking her permission for me and the Newbie to continue a relationship, and asking what the Newbie's desired boundaries for my interactions with the (former) Secondary and the Primary's interactions with the (former) Secondary should be. I explained all of the terms I used and was very specific with each of the few questions I asked her.

This was more than 48 hours ago. The Newbie immediately acknowledged receipt of the message and has been completely ignoring my existence since. The Newbie didn't even mention my message to the Secondary.

It is now the 18th day of this bullshit and I really can't wrap my head around why I am being treated like this. I feel like I am just getting played with mixed messages. If this is really a break-up, and I still don't even know after more than two weeks, it is actually one of the worst I've been through, because it's being dragged out as long as possible. Even what I considered really bad break-ups in the past, like a guy I was dating for over a year and living with accusing me of cheating on him with the guy everyone knows as my brother—which I hopefully don't need to clarify that I didn't do!—at least was over in 10 minutes.

I had been in remission from mental illness for 7 years before this and now I have been feeling clinically depressed again for the past two weeks. I have been trying to make appointments with psychiatrists but it's hard to find anyone taking new patients. Last night, I was up past 1 a.m. just crying.

I have tried to be honest, ethical, and loving, so I don't get why I deserve to be jerked around and ignored!

Thanks for letting me rant.
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  #16  
Old 12-17-2013, 08:34 PM
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Giving Newbie the benefit of the doubt, it seems possible that (former) Secondary gave you an email address that Newbie doesn't actually use. Yes, I am suspicious that (former) Secondary is pulling the wool over both your eyes and Newbie's. This might be a time to strongly consider meeting with Newbie in the flesh, assuming you even want to bother with the relationship after witnessing (former) Secondary's trickery.

Sorry to hear you're getting treated like this. I hope you'll be able to meet with a good counselor soon.
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  #17  
Old 12-17-2013, 08:43 PM
Azzy Azzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Giving Newbie the benefit of the doubt, it seems possible that (former) Secondary gave you an email address that Newbie doesn't actually use.
Nah, she directly acknowledged receipt of my message from her own Facebook account through a short IM. It's just that that was more than 2 full days ago now, and she's been ignoring me since

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Yes, I am suspicious that (former) Secondary is pulling the wool over both your eyes and Newbie's. This might be a time to strongly consider meeting with Newbie in the flesh, assuming you even want to bother with the relationship after witnessing (former) Secondary's trickery.
The thing is that I don't think he is being tricky on purpose. I think that he thinks he has provided enough information and doesn't understand why I am upset. It is possible that the Newbie is the one being vague with him and that is why he has not been able to give me a flat "yes" or "no" as to whether she approves of the relationship.

The intention doesn't matter beyond a certain point, though. This forum has helped me understand that poly isn't for people who can't communicate, no matter what the reason for their lack of communication skills is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Sorry to hear you're getting treated like this. I hope you'll be able to meet with a good counselor soon.
Thank you for your support. I will keep trying to contact a professional. Just reading the forum and knowing I can post on here has been helping me.
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  #18  
Old 12-17-2013, 09:18 PM
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Yes, I think it's a good place to vent. (And get feedback.)

I can see how it could be just a miscommunication (or even damage control) on (former) Secondary's part. And I suppose you could tell him you need more communication from (both) him (and Newbie). But you should probably only bother if you think it's worth it. Maybe he could develop better communication skills over time? I don't know.

I wonder if he'd "get it" if he read this particular thread? Might be worth considering.

Anyway, if Newbie is truly just ignoring you, then she must not have any big objections to the (proposed) situation. I suggest paying her no further mind, unless she comes to you with a concern.

I hope things work out in some way shape or form.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #19  
Old 12-17-2013, 10:03 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azzy View Post
To update on my situation, after getting back to the (former) Secondary after a week of no contact, during which the only request I had left him with was to simply explain my relationship with him to the Newbie and get her approval or disapproval, I came back to pretty much the same situation. The Secondary basically just said that he told the Newbie that he had previously been in a "romantically involved relationship" with me. I asked whether the Newbie had indicated her comprehension and given approval for an ongoing relationship, and then he started being really vague again. He just assured me that he loves me and wants to continue being in a relationship with me, but wouldn't say anything concrete about the Newbie.

So, I decided to follow kdt26417's advice and talk to the Newbie myself. With the Primary and Secondary helping, I wrote the Newbie a short letter explaining the situation, asking her permission for me and the Newbie to continue a relationship, and asking what the Newbie's desired boundaries for my interactions with the (former) Secondary and the Primary's interactions with the (former) Secondary should be. I explained all of the terms I used and was very specific with each of the few questions I asked her.

This was more than 48 hours ago. The Newbie immediately acknowledged receipt of the message and has been completely ignoring my existence since. The Newbie didn't even mention my message to the Secondary.

I have tried to be honest, ethical, and loving, so I don't get why I deserve to be jerked around and ignored!
Repeat after me: 'This is not about me.'

You can ask for what you want in any situation. In this case, you want some clarity about if your relationship with Secondary will continue and, if so, on what grounds. But asking does not mean you will get it, or even a response.

She did let you know she got the letter. That is a response. It is not an answer. She is not obligated to answer you, as rude as that may seem. There is no obligation for her to write a fully detailed letter explaining how you and Secondary may or may not interact in the future.

Her lack of response - in the way you wanted - to your precisely worded letter may not be about you at all. Or alternatively, she may be so overwhelmed with it all, that she has withdrawn to think things over. If Secondary has been less than forthcoming (as I suspect he has), she has a lot to think over.

I urge you not to take this personally. Newbie may not be ignoring your existence as so much as wrapping her head around the situation. She might need quite some time to figure out what she wants, and how to say it to you.

(As an aside, why did Secondary help write the letter instead of just talking to his primary? That's just odd. You basically did his 'dirty' work of telling her about you for him.)

Further, I gently suggest you may be angry with Newbie in part because you are angry at Secondary. I don't know why he's been so vague. But I've found in my own life when someone is vague and non-committal like that, it is because they want to make everyone happy and not offend anyone. So they don't make a decision. This usually results in people being pissed at them anyway. But Secondary's lack of definite answers is not Newbie's fault. That's on him.

I also wonder if Secondary is being opaque because he really doesn't want you interjecting your relationship with him into his relationship with Newbie. He may not see the need to get 'permission' from her for him to continue interacting with you. Not everyone acts on the model that partners need to give permission to interact with others. A lot of people do, in one form or another, but it's not a given. I generally want to meet the people my partner is dating or may want to date but he doesn't need my permission to date. And vice versa.

But really, it seems to me that Secondary wants his romantic interactions with you and a primary relationship with Newbie, and he is not sure she would be totally ok with that. Hence the waffling.

I also hate lack of clarity and do pursue answers. Sometimes I don't get them. That drives me truly mad. But the reasons I don't get answers usually have nothing to do with me, or even with the situation. People have so much going on in their lives that we may or may not be aware of.

So repeat after me 'It's not about me.'

Last edited by opalescent; 12-18-2013 at 04:51 AM. Reason: goof fixing
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  #20  
Old 12-17-2013, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Repeat after me: 'This is not about me.'

You can ask for what you want in any situation. In this case, you want some clarity about if your relationship with Secondary will continue and, if so, on what grounds. But asking does not mean you will get it, or even a response.

She did let you know she got the letter. That is a response. It is not an answer. She is not obligated to answer you, as rude as that may seem. There is no obligation for her to write a fully detailed letter explaining how you and Secondary may or may not interact in the future.

Her lack of response - in the way you wanted - to your precisely worded letter may not be about you at all. Or alternatively, shemaybesooverwhelmed with it all, that she has withdrawn to think things over. If Secondary has been less than forthcoming (as I suspect he has), she has a lot to think over.

I urge you not to take this personally. Newbie may not be ignoring your existence as so much as wrapping her head around the situation. She might need quite some time to figure out what she wants, and how to say it to you.


I also wonder if Secondary is being opaque because he really doesn't want you interjecting your relationship with him into his relationship with Newbie. He may not see the need to get 'permission' from her for him to continue interacting with you. Not everyone acts on the model that partners need to give permission to interact with others. A lot of people do, in one form or another, but it's not a given.
I agree with all of this, especially the last bit. I'm like that and the way you are behaving after I've told you that I want to be with you would make me feel like you're pressuring me to be different.
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