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  #11  
Old 12-07-2013, 05:45 AM
Firelight Firelight is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
You had something wonderful and now it's gone, and you're mourning that loss. Does that sound about right?
sounds bang on. Trying to move forward but because I am missing answers, I am not sure how to do that.

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I can't say for sure of course, but it doesn't sound like there were any warning signs for you to "miss." (Of course, if there were, you missed them and therefore didn't report them here... catch-22) It's reasonable to believe that after 15 years of being poly, they would have worked out this shit.
I think I stirred up some underlying issues between them.


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The problem is, if they're still using vetoes after 15 years, there's a good chance they (she?) have a lot of shit that they've never actually dealt with, but rather bypassed by just shutting it down whenever it got "hard."
We ended up having a one on one meeting with just her & myself and then another one with the three of us. I saw a pile of resentment from previous relationships and they acknowledged that. I asked if they were able to work through that to accommodate this new relationship and they said yes but it would be a lot of work. I hesitated after that talk & wasn't sure but he told later that they would work through it & that they always have. To trust the process. I am new & naive to poly. I wanted to trust the process.

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Breakups aren't fun. There really is a process of mourning to go through when you lose someone. Veto breakups are probably extra hard because you know it wasn't even your own partner who broke up with you.
I think this is the core of my issue. He asked for space to let her figure it out and he said that it would be okay in the end. Just be patient. I respected that. Then a week later, he calls me telling me that he had to make a choice and I wasn't it. Not even friendship. Even though he was making the call, it felt like she was the one calling. Not him. It felt like he was being manipulated. Forcing him to take responsibility for the break up when he wasn't the one actually doing it. A passive aggressive move on her part? The whole thing felt strange. He said he was sad & discouraged it wasn't going to work. You are are absolutely correct. Hard to accept when it wasn't really my partner breaking up with me.
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I don't like vetoes. We don't use them. I don't date people who use them, at least not if they allow them to be used after relationships are established. For example, Auto and her hubby have veto agreements for PREVENTING relationships before they start. But if he tried to make her break up with me now? She'd tell him to go to hell.
a good lesson I learned from this relationship. Agreed.
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2013, 09:55 AM
london london is offline
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Anyone who needs any sort of check in or permission seeking before they act on their feelings gets instant rejection from me. I'm not interested in anyone who cannot kiss who and when they want, fuck when they want and has partners with agency over their relationship.

Even when people who have those rules claim there are no veto rights, they aren't being truthful. What will happen is that one or more existing partners will make it so very difficult for them to keep seeing you that they might as well of just said that they are pulling a veto. Please believe me, anyone that is in a poly relationship but has to seek approval, permission or blessing from an existing partner to proceed with a relationship should be treated with extreme caution.
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2013, 11:30 AM
northhome northhome is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
I'm not interested in anyone who cannot kiss who and when they want, fuck when they want and has partners with agency over their relationship.
Which probably reduces the number of potential partners dramatically. But I can see where you're coming from. That filter should lower the amount of drama and hassle enormously.
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2013, 12:12 PM
scarletzinnia scarletzinnia is offline
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You didn't blindside her because he had her permission to start a relationship with you. Was it supposed to not include kissing?

I am wondering, did she witness the kissing? That could have triggered her in some way if he kissed you somehow differently, or more, than he kisses her. Which isn't your fault at all, of course, but you do seem to be wondering how this happened.

Regardless, you don't want to be with a man who caves to a groundless veto because his primary throws a tantrum. He may have other partners, but who knows how many other women they have already done this to?

I was once on the receiving end of a veto when the primary partner got jealous. I had been with him for a year, but we had only recently fallen in love. I was stupid, I hung in there, tried to pacify her, begged him to stick up for me. All I did was prolong the inevitable, getting dumped by him. She was OK with us staying "friends" at least online, and I still loved him, so we tried that. I spent almost a year IMing with him and seeing him for a couple of teary in-person conversations too, and trying to persuade him that he should assert his right to continue the relationship with me. He told me repeatedly that he still cared, and missed me, but he wouldn't do a thing to change the situation, just kept giving me false hope.

Well, that guy was not my friend. He eventually showed his true colors to me not too long ago, he is a petty, judgmental, hypocritical piece of crap, and I was finally able to walk away from him decisively.

My point is, your guy can't possibly be a good guy either, if he treats people who care about him like disposable garbage. I wish I had figured that out sooner, I would have spared myself a whole lot of pain.

Have you considered telling his other partners what happened to you, do you know them at all? If I was dating this guy, I would sure want to know how my relationship could evaporate on his wife's whim. People like him need a warning label.
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2013, 12:37 PM
london london is offline
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Originally Posted by northhome View Post
Which probably reduces the number of potential partners dramatically. But I can see where you're coming from. That filter should lower the amount of drama and hassle enormously.
Ooh it does, and it's very hard to stick to that when you are fairly sure the person you actually want to date doesn't require those sorts of control mechanisms, but still, not worth the hassle.
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  #16  
Old 12-07-2013, 03:31 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by scarletzinnia View Post

Regardless, you don't want to be with a man who caves to a groundless veto because his primary throws a tantrum. He may have other partners, but who knows how many other women they have already done this to?
My sentiments exactly!!! Lucky escape there OP, though I appreciate that it must hurt
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  #17  
Old 12-07-2013, 08:23 PM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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Originally Posted by Firelight View Post


I think this is the core of my issue. He asked for space to let her figure it out and he said that it would be okay in the end. Just be patient. I respected that. Then a week later, he calls me telling me that he had to make a choice and I wasn't it. Not even friendship. Even though he was making the call, it felt like she was the one calling. Not him. It felt like he was being manipulated. Forcing him to take responsibility for the break up when he wasn't the one actually doing it. A passive aggressive move on her part? The whole thing felt strange. He said he was sad & discouraged it wasn't going to work. You are are absolutely correct. Hard to accept when it wasn't really my partner breaking up with me.
a good lesson I learned from this relationship. Agreed.
I was in a very similar situation - except that our relationship was actually encouraged by the wife - until she suddenly changed her mind completely, and there was no negotiating. We lived together. She gave him ultimatums time and again, but he would never choose. However, each fight between them resulted in requirements that he pull further and further away from me. She finally asked me to leave herself. He let me go and tried to make their marriage work for the sake of their children, but their marriage ultimately did not survive. They were married 15 years.

Because I lived with them, I was privy to the complete and constant emotional hell he was subjected to. I actually did not see how he withstood it. At times I wanted to leave hoping it would end his pain, but he always asked that I stay. I would be willing to bet that your guy is dealing with something similar. I am not saying it forgives how he treated you (I am betting he feels very guilty about it, because my guy did and he stood his ground and refused to choose), but you probably do not have a full picture of the emotional anguish to which she subjected him.
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  #18  
Old 12-08-2013, 03:21 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firelight View Post
Even though he was making the call, it felt like she was the one calling. Not him. It felt like he was being manipulated. Forcing him to take responsibility for the break up when he wasn't the one actually doing it. A passive aggressive move on her part? The whole thing felt strange.
Oh, but he was the one doing it. No one can force us to do anything. They most they can do is make us wish we had. Even though she pressured him and manipulated him, I wouldn't let him off the hook by saying she "made" him or that he "had no choice." We always have a choice. People can control our environment, but they can't control us. We can only control ourselves.
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  #19  
Old 12-08-2013, 03:24 AM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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I agree with SC.

He did what he wanted to do.
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  #20  
Old 12-08-2013, 05:35 AM
Firelight Firelight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
Oh, but he was the one doing it. No one can force us to do anything. They most they can do is make us wish we had. Even though she pressured him and manipulated him, I wouldn't let him off the hook by saying she "made" him or that he "had no choice." We always have a choice. People can control our environment, but they can't control us. We can only control ourselves.
You are absolutely right. He ultimately has to take responsibility for his own actions, regardless of outside pressures or expectations.
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