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  #81  
Old 11-27-2013, 06:57 AM
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ColorsWolf ColorsWolf is offline
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Kevin, I just think you focus too much on the color of some one's skin or what their "Race" is, is all I am saying.~

I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to make my point here:

It isn't how some one looks, it's their way of life: if you notice that some people of a certain culture are not so numerous in participating in polyamory then that in my opinion is what we are talking about here.~

I am sure there are plenty people with "black skin" that have polyamorous relationships, it's not like "people with black skin are allergic to polyamory", it all has to do with the culture they were raised with and what kind of person they are.~

For example, we had some people here talking about how it is in some Caribbean cultures and others talked about American Black Cultures, etc..~

I am glad you are learning more about people first hand and I am glad you are beginning to realize that there is so much more than just the surface when it comes to people such as the color of their skin or their "race".~

Sincerely,

ColorsWolf
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  #82  
Old 11-27-2013, 08:45 AM
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Re:
Quote:
"Kevin, I just think you focus too much on the color of someone's skin or what their 'Race' is, is all I am saying."
Even after that last post when I tried to stop saying "blacks" and start saying "people" instead? Why can't you affirm my efforts instead of continually shooting me down for my past mistakes?

Of course I care more about someone's way of life than I do their skin color! Their skin color isn't even as significant as their clothing color, since at least they can usually pick out their clothing color and that in turn maybe says something at least about their preferences.

Re:
Quote:
"If you notice that some people of a certain culture are not so numerous in participating in polyamory then that in my opinion is what we are talking about here."
But, but ... what I've been hearing is that many American descendants of slaves do indeed practice polyamory: It walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck; they're just not comfortable calling it a duck (or anything else for that matter). They don't want to call it anything, they don't want to attend our meetings, they just want to "live the life." Which is their right.

I don't feel *entitled* to have people of every ethnicity attend my poly potlucks. It's just something I thought might be cool if all relevant persons wanted to agree to it.

Re:
Quote:
"I am sure there are plenty people with 'black skin' that have polyamorous relationships, it's not like 'people with black skin are allergic to polyamory,' it all has to do with the culture they were raised with and what kind of person they are."
Yes and coincidentally it's already been pointed out in various ways and by various people posting on this thread that "black polyamory" is practiced amongst some people's cultures but not others -- depending on religion, traditions, and so forth.

Re:
Quote:
"For example, we had some people here talking about how it is in some Caribbean cultures and others talked about American Black Cultures, etc."
Umm yeah, sure did. (And I read those posts. Paid attention to them as well.)

Re:
Quote:
"I am glad you are learning more about people firsthand and I am glad you are beginning to realize that there is so much more than just the surface when it comes to people such as the color of their skin or their 'race.'"
I began to realize that as soon as I was old enough to understand what the words "race" and "culture" meant. The problem here isn't about me needing to be taught to realize it. I'm already there. The problem is me figuring out how to communicate that I realize it in such a way that others can understand and believe. Frankly, I think I've made every reasonable effort to do so. There comes a time when the ball is in the listener's court. That is, the listener must actually *listen* -- not just temporarily bide their time while thinking up a devastating retort.

Have you listened to me? Have you read all my posts in this thread? Did you put yourself in my shoes when you read them, or did you merely scan them for weaknesses? You seem to have quite a penchant for putting people (especially me since a diplomat makes such an easy target) down. Do you do this so as to boost yourself up? There are better ways. What Stephen R. Covey calls a win-win. I don't have to lose in order for you to win. It is possible that the both of us can win. But we've got to stop fighting against each other first.

ColorsWolf, I am just about done with you. I've cautioned you before that I'd only take so much abuse before I'd stop responding to your posts, and we are now teetering on the brink of that change. If you desire that change, any little push now will convince me fully that you and I are done talking. If you don't desire that change, than start treating me as an equal, not as a recalcitrant pupil.

Personally, I think we've wandered far afield from what would really bring diverse poly cultures together. Instead we are arguing about why this or that word is wrong, a classic downfall of the stereotypical polyamorist. Polyamorists are (prejudicially) known for aggressively defending *their* definitions of words and what words *they* think we should use and when *they* think we ought to use them.

I wonder if people who descended in the United States from slaves haven't noticed that about "white polyamorists," and as a result want to step as far away from our semantic battles as possible. If you don't call it anything, then there's no label to argue about. Seems to simplify things, kinda ...

Anyway, I am tired of the criticism and the abuse and the disturbing reversals of personality face just when I least expect it. You need to be more consistent. Either decide that you like me and that you truly support me, or pull that rug out from under me now and be done with it.

This may be the last post I write and direct to you. I'll be thinking about that. It's also very possible the next post I direct at you will simply say, "Sorry man, but we're done."

I beg you not to put me in that position. There's a first time for everything, but I'd rather there not be a first time for this.

Now, I suggest we all get quite back on topic, meaning: What can we do to get polyamorists of every ethnicity to get and meet together more than they have up until now? You're welcome to answer that to accomplish the objective, we need to speak to people of other cultures in logical, non-offensive words. But (and this is the last time I'll ask), don't answer in that or any other way unless you can stop nitpicking at the motes in my eyes while ignoring the beams in your eyes. Remove the beams, and then you'll be able to see clearly to pick out the motes (without plucking my eyes out along with them).

No more kdt26417 versus ColorsWolf nonsense. This thread isn't supposed to be about our apparent enmity with each other. It's supposed to be about getting polys of diverse ethnicities together to join hands, both on the web and in real life.

Enough said. I've tried long and hard to please you and find common ground you and I can share. You've resisted me at every turn, either condescendingly or angrily. Well it takes a lot before I'll admit to being angry in public like this, but I'm admitting it now. *Don't* push me any further. It won't help you, and it won't help this website.

Kevin
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  #83  
Old 11-27-2013, 09:11 AM
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I'm sorry, I must have read too much into your posts as I have a tendency to be very literal online as it is extremely difficult to be so otherwise or understand otherwise.~

I'm also sorry if you thought I was arguing with you or being condescending as I did not see that at all, that was definitely not my intent, and I apologize for arguing.~


LovingRadiance also spurred me very much and made my hairs bristle, I mistakingly was seeing you agreeing with her point that it is justifiable to stereotype people and all I saw was her you and this thread taking a turn for the worse.~

But I see now I was mistaken, I realize now there are better ways to get my message across and not to mistake people in place of other people.~


For that I am truly sorry and I hope we can move on from this as you have suggested.~

I agree that we can get more people of all cultures and walks of life to join in polyamory or we might even discover that they already do but they might not "call it" as such, as I believe it was you or some one else who said that (my memory is a little fuzzy right now), if we simply talk to them and try to get to know them all assumptions aside.~

Love,

ColorsWolf
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Appreciate every thing, every thing is precious.~


Last edited by ColorsWolf; 11-27-2013 at 09:23 AM.
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  #84  
Old 11-27-2013, 09:14 AM
london london is offline
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When do we hold elections for Race Relations Officer of polyamory.com because I never got to vote in the last one. Is it cos I is black?
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  #85  
Old 11-27-2013, 07:47 PM
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Colorswolf-
I woould like to invite you to check out my real life. (I'm NOT being sarcastic). If you are interested, send me a PM and I will send you my real life info for fb. You need not add me as a friend to see it-because it's an open page.

I grasp what you THINK I was saying and meant.
What you are doing is making a few LARGE assumptions that color your opinion of my meaning. Incorrectly.

You say you are picking about being literal. But you aren't speaking in educated literal terms regarding social psychology. Social psychology (the study of how people think about, influence, and relate to one another) is VERY VERY pertinent to the question that KDT asked in this thread.
It's also MY MAJOR in school of which I am nearly finished with my bachelors and about ready to move on to my Masters (to be followed by a phd). It's my heart. It's the love of my life.

You have REPEATEDLY all over the board said you were interested in learning. So-when you vehemently disagreed with me, I posted the necessary info for you to ACTUALLY go read the experts information regarding what I said. I didn't ask you to take me at MY word. But gave you links to expert information, so that you could more easily access what I was talking about-in fuller depth-and hopefully with less confusion.

But-you didn't do that. Interestingly enough, KDT, did. I would reason to guess he's found some interesting stuff, not only written, but about himself too.

At no point was I making excuses for people mistreating others.
BUT-if we want to elicit change, it's necessary to understand the UNDERLYING reasons why people do what they do when they do what they do.

PART of why people do what they do is nurture (learned) but some is nature.

We DO STEREOTYPE naturally and we do stereotype learned.
But-before we go assuming that all stereotyping can be abolished, it's critical to understand that stereotyping at its core is a natural mechanism of humans and that can't be changed.
What can be changed is when and how and why we are stereotyping what.

I don't have time or interest in RE-WRITING all of my studies into this thread so that you can read it and finally realize I'm not being a bigoted bitch. But I was VERY interested in sharing what I have learned-because it could be HIGHLY useful not only in this thread, but in the personal lives of each of us participating in the thread.

Humans DO stereotype naturally. It's a part of who we are. That doesn't mean we can't learn to be more conscious and more careful about it. But to deny that it's true that all humans do it is naive at best.
Stereotyping is a form of classification. We classify all sorts of shit, including people.
We classify (and stereotype) by grade, by age, by gender, by IQ, by physical ability, by color, by number, by date, by time, by size, by shape....
This is a baseline truth.

In order to affect how people USE stereotypes (which is the real issue); we need to understand WHY they use them and WHAT they use them for so that we can help them be more structured and careful in their use of them.

The world isn't as simple as "right" and "wrong" or "black" and "white". There are many things that we do (like stereotyping) that have GOOD uses. For example, we stereotype plants. When dealing with plant life in a new area, we will often assess a plants useful properties and safety for eating based upon certain stereotypes learned from plants in an area we were familiar with. This can SAVE YOUR LIFE. It's a GOOD purpose.
We also stereotype in bad ways (which is what we are all used to talking about) and I won't give examples, because plenty have already been given in this thread. But the issue isn't to abolish stereotyping COMPLETELY. It's to reduce it back to the original purpose it was useful for.

Seriously-as much as you express an interest in learning about new ideas/concepts and understanding people; you should check out some information on social psych, social perception & attributions, classification and stereotyping etc. Do a search on David G Meyers-great info he's put out on the topics. Well written, clearly written, interesting, sometimes provocative and very educational. You might find that A) you enjoy the topic and B) you aren't so dead set on believing I'm some psycho bitch.

My life is fully integrated with a variety of cultures and races and lifestyles enmeshed in a close and large chosen family. You would be hard-pressed to find anyone in my real life-even if they don't like me personally-who would believe that I am remotely racist or sexist. But-I'm not about to pretend that people aren't what they are or don't do what they DO do.

My life interest is the science of why we do what we do. It's what I study, it's what I center my education on. It's what I know.
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  #86  
Old 11-27-2013, 07:55 PM
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kdt-wasn't that an awesome test set up?
I am going to go back and do more of them. There's some cool info about how they came up with that program and what they are doing with the information too. It's really cool.
On a side note-the first test it gave me was on race. Specifically looking for prejudice against "blacks" (as said in the test). It noted afterward, that *most* people in the US (of any race) tend to hold a prejudice to at least some small degree against blacks and explained some of the US cultural effect etc.
But-my test came out having no prejudice for or against either. (keeping in mind that *most by definition being the majority, but could be only 1% more).
The second test showed I had a "slightly favorable" attitude towards prostitutes.
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  #87  
Old 11-28-2013, 06:41 AM
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Re (from london):
Quote:
"When do we hold elections for Race Relations Officer of polyamory.com because I never got to vote in the last one. Is it cos I is black?"
Yes london, it's cos you is black, and as we know all blacks are bigots. Hence unfit to vote (much less run) for the Race Relations Offer job. Now bow your head and humbly and say, "Amen."

Amen. (And also, you will once again not receive a slice of cake.)

I'm definitely with LovingRadiance in the sense that some stereotying is good, necessary, and useful, while other sterotyping is hateful, pointless, and illogical. Sorry if that offends, but I can't just back down on my position -- not without a huge learning curve that gave me lots of citations to confirm the supposed facts along the way.

Yes LR, the test set-up was very nice (even though I hated the "under the clock" pressure preliminaries). Who knows when I'll find good opportunity to try it again later.

Thanks for posting the various links; I believe that they'll help a lot of people (myself included).

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #88  
Old 11-28-2013, 11:21 PM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default No offense

buddy o pal

but you have much too firm of a grip

to know what you are talking about

because the object you are gripping

matters much more than how tight

you death grip hold on things are

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 11-28-2013 at 11:29 PM.
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  #89  
Old 11-28-2013, 11:46 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Okay!

But were you talking to me?

Examples, man. Specifics. I don't have a good enough grip on where you're coming from to know what you're talking about.

You mean I'm defending stereotyping too zealously in proportion to my ignorance on the subject? Help me out here ...

While gripping the object I'm gripping too firmly to know what I'm talking about,

Kevin T.
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  #90  
Old 11-29-2013, 03:11 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Re:


Even after that last post when I tried to stop saying "blacks" and start saying "people" instead? Why can't you affirm my efforts instead of continually shooting me down for my past mistakes?

Of course I care more about someone's way of life than I do their skin color! Their skin color isn't even as significant as their clothing color, since at least they can usually pick out their clothing color and that in turn maybe says something at least about their preferences.

Re:


But, but ... what I've been hearing is that many American descendants of slaves do indeed practice polyamory: It walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck; they're just not comfortable calling it a duck (or anything else for that matter). They don't want to call it anything, they don't want to attend our meetings, they just want to "live the life." Which is their right.

I don't feel *entitled* to have people of every ethnicity attend my poly potlucks. It's just something I thought might be cool if all relevant persons wanted to agree to it.

Re:


Yes and coincidentally it's already been pointed out in various ways and by various people posting on this thread that "black polyamory" is practiced amongst some people's cultures but not others -- depending on religion, traditions, and so forth.

Re:


Umm yeah, sure did. (And I read those posts. Paid attention to them as well.)

Re:


I began to realize that as soon as I was old enough to understand what the words "race" and "culture" meant. The problem here isn't about me needing to be taught to realize it. I'm already there. The problem is me figuring out how to communicate that I realize it in such a way that others can understand and believe. Frankly, I think I've made every reasonable effort to do so. There comes a time when the ball is in the listener's court. That is, the listener must actually *listen* -- not just temporarily bide their time while thinking up a devastating retort.

Have you listened to me? Have you read all my posts in this thread? Did you put yourself in my shoes when you read them, or did you merely scan them for weaknesses? You seem to have quite a penchant for putting people (especially me since a diplomat makes such an easy target) down. Do you do this so as to boost yourself up? There are better ways. What Stephen R. Covey calls a win-win. I don't have to lose in order for you to win. It is possible that the both of us can win. But we've got to stop fighting against each other first.

ColorsWolf, I am just about done with you. I've cautioned you before that I'd only take so much abuse before I'd stop responding to your posts, and we are now teetering on the brink of that change. If you desire that change, any little push now will convince me fully that you and I are done talking. If you don't desire that change, than start treating me as an equal, not as a recalcitrant pupil.

Personally, I think we've wandered far afield from what would really bring diverse poly cultures together. Instead we are arguing about why this or that word is wrong, a classic downfall of the stereotypical polyamorist. Polyamorists are (prejudicially) known for aggressively defending *their* definitions of words and what words *they* think we should use and when *they* think we ought to use them.

I wonder if people who descended in the United States from slaves haven't noticed that about "white polyamorists," and as a result want to step as far away from our semantic battles as possible. If you don't call it anything, then there's no label to argue about. Seems to simplify things, kinda ...

Anyway, I am tired of the criticism and the abuse and the disturbing reversals of personality face just when I least expect it. You need to be more consistent. Either decide that you like me and that you truly support me, or pull that rug out from under me now and be done with it.

This may be the last post I write and direct to you. I'll be thinking about that. It's also very possible the next post I direct at you will simply say, "Sorry man, but we're done."

I beg you not to put me in that position. There's a first time for everything, but I'd rather there not be a first time for this.

Now, I suggest we all get quite back on topic, meaning: What can we do to get polyamorists of every ethnicity to get and meet together more than they have up until now? You're welcome to answer that to accomplish the objective, we need to speak to people of other cultures in logical, non-offensive words. But (and this is the last time I'll ask), don't answer in that or any other way unless you can stop nitpicking at the motes in my eyes while ignoring the beams in your eyes. Remove the beams, and then you'll be able to see clearly to pick out the motes (without plucking my eyes out along with them).

No more kdt26417 versus ColorsWolf nonsense. This thread isn't supposed to be about our apparent enmity with each other. It's supposed to be about getting polys of diverse ethnicities together to join hands, both on the web and in real life.

Enough said. I've tried long and hard to please you and find common ground you and I can share. You've resisted me at every turn, either condescendingly or angrily. Well it takes a lot before I'll admit to being angry in public like this, but I'm admitting it now. *Don't* push me any further. It won't help you, and it won't help this website.

Kevin

Grip as in recording, as in grip with a microphone, as in "tying" in to a sound board, as in some assholes justify gripping someone's car or house before they can trust them, but usually such an invasion of privacy is only viewed as acceptable to people who believe themselves superior to others.

Because if you do not have anyone gripped, than there must be a hell of lot of private messaging going on, because it your replies state to me very clearly that you either are an abusive male who doesn't really care if non-caucasians show up to your potlucks.

The only thing I can't tell is whether or not you are caucasian, if you are not I guess you might find this whole thread amusing, while that may be so, it is actually a lot closer to manipulative "playing" with people against their will, as if you enjoy these arguments like others have on other threads, they are willing to bicker back and forth for 22 pages, but they won't just say whether or not the are for equal rights or whether they support bigoted laws which wrongfully discriminate.

and if you are caucasian, if you were serious about being sensitive to offending minorities, you wouldn't keep throwing in jokes about topic, you wouldn't continue to fill the post with sarcasm, slow either you are extremely lost on your ability to learn how to respect those who are not the same as you, or you are of the very minority you are being insensitive to, which is a pretty callous think to do considering that some of us here are actually trying help instead of supplementing inferiority complexes.

So which it?

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 11-29-2013 at 04:20 AM.
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