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  #11  
Old 11-17-2013, 09:04 AM
london london is offline
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The successful closed triads that I know aren't actually closed triads. I say that (and they say that) because there wasn't ever actually an agreement that they would be a closed triad and if one of them did want to see someone else, they'd adapt accordingly. They just don't have the inclination to have other relationships due to preference (nobody wants to sleep with anyone else rather than prefers their partners not to) or lack of resources (time mainly).
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  #12  
Old 11-17-2013, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by pulliman View Post

I can imagine there are some triads that are monogamous to the triad (i.e., closed, poly-fi). How do three people negotiate that moment? In a binary couple, someone might propose to someone else, or you have The Talk about exclusivity, or whatever it might be. How does a triad do that?
Not sure why the desire to be 'exclusive' if as Poly people you accept that exclusive does not equal commitment. I wonder about the desire to fall into the safety of monogamous thinking and behaviours that seem safe but are actually attitudes extracted from the status quo, like having to have a 'talk' about exclusivity "You're mine now.....".

Also if a marriage between the original couple did not indicate lifelong exclusivity (obviously or we wouldn't be here) why does a proposal to the new partner/relationship indicate exclusivity?

Why not leave it up to each individual to determined what commitment means to them without having to mould it into standards that suit the will of one?

Just my tuppence.
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  #13  
Old 11-17-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by pulliman View Post

I can imagine there are some triads that are monogamous to the triad (i.e., closed, poly-fi). How do three people negotiate that moment? In a binary couple, someone might propose to someone else, or you have The Talk about exclusivity, or whatever it might be. How does a triad do that?

I ask these questions as I am thinking about the ever-tightening connections between WI, AM, and me. So far, so good, but it's nice to gain stories that others have experienced. I'm not sure we'll end up "monogamous" to the triad, but we're kind of headed there (with EL still a part of my life, long distance). Stories, advice, and insights would be great. Thanks!
Yeah, you've got your long distance gf, so what exactly is this poly fi idea you've got? You have 3 women you are romantic/sexual with... because I assume you and EL do have sex, either cybering or actual real time together? Or not?

Anyway, you know many Unicorn Hunter type couples have the idea of sharing a woman, moving her in, being poly fi from a very early stage of the relationship. It's usually quite obvious that this "need" comes from insecurity, lack of trust born of low self esteem, jealousy, fear of abandonment.

Indeed, in our mono culture at large, the idea of somehow formally committing to exclusivity is very common. But why? Same reasons. Also, breeding. A male wants to make sure the kids he might raise are his own genetic material.

What is YOUR motivation for wanting a formal declaration of exclusivity from your wife and gf? It's early days yet with the gf, isn't it? A few months of dating/having sex? What would be so terrible about your gf having another lover outside the triad? What if another woman caught your eye? After all, 3 already did...
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  #14  
Old 11-17-2013, 03:59 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
What is YOUR motivation for wanting a formal declaration of exclusivity from your wife and gf? It's early days yet with the gf, isn't it? A few months of dating/having sex? What would be so terrible about your gf having another lover outside the triad? What if another woman caught your eye? After all, 3 already did...
Hi Magdlyn. I suppose I HAVE implied that it's me with a desire for exclusivity, but I haven't meant to. This isn't about me, actually, and I'd sure be a hypocrite if I asked for exclusivity when I'm not (because of my long distance relationship with EL).

My question comes from observing the flow of our several relationships. What I'm seeing with the three of us is that we are moving in the direction of exclusivity. I mean, nobody's sleeping with anyone outside us three (except me, who rarely sees EL). And yet we're not exclusive, with AM in a transition space in her life, where she isn't sure what comes next. She wants something deeper and more connected with the two of us, on the one hand, and wants freedom on the other. I'm okay with both - we're not sure yet which direction we're headed. Sure, my wife has concerns about safe sex, but that's a detail separate from the principle of AM having a lover...

As for another woman catching my eye, I gotta admit. I'm full up here. I got nothing left, no space for attention to others. I'm kinda flooded, in a good way, if that makes any sense. In the future, maybe again. But right now?! Good lord, no way!
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  #15  
Old 11-17-2013, 04:07 PM
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Hi Natja - nice purchase with those tuppence.

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Not sure why the desire to be 'exclusive' if as Poly people you accept that exclusive does not equal commitment.
A great point - right now, I'm writing while thinking about and putting myself in AM's shoes. She wants a sense of commitment and importance, a place where she (incoming to two people who have been in a long marriage that has previously struggled with poly) wants to know that there are times when she "comes first." And it's not even about being "first" so much as counting on my (or WI's) presence, when needed.

Commitment is such a deep concept, and it's so often not about what others do, but what you feel on the inside. I was, during some difficult times in my marriage, pretty unsure about my wife's commitment to me. It had nothing to do with vows, with exclusivity, or what she was actually doing with me. It had to do with my seeing and accepting the "with me" part of her actions, and trusting that she'd keep staying.

Quote:
Why not leave it up to each individual to determine what commitment means to them without having to mould it into standards that suit the will of one?
Yeah, there's no "will of one" in this situation. It's just that (as I've said elsewhere) AM and WI have no desire to enter these boards or talk about these issues anonymously. So I think from their end, try to learn about their thinking by listening to others, and hope that what I learn can be of use when as we move to wherever it is we're going.
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  #16  
Old 11-17-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pulliman View Post

My question comes from observing the flow of our several relationships. What I'm seeing with the three of us is that we are moving in the direction of exclusivity. I mean, nobody's sleeping with anyone outside us three (except me, who rarely sees EL). And yet we're not exclusive, with AM in a transition space in her life, where she isn't sure what comes next. She wants something deeper and more connected with the two of us, on the one hand, and wants freedom on the other. I'm okay with both - we're not sure yet which direction we're headed. Sure, my wife has concerns about safe sex, but that's a detail separate from the principle of AM having a lover...

As for another woman catching my eye, I gotta admit. I'm full up here. I got nothing left, no space for attention to others. I'm kinda flooded, in a good way, if that makes any sense. In the future, maybe again. But right now?! Good lord, no way!
Well, as long as you and your wife are being supportive of AM, why not just let it flow as it is and see where you all stand in a year or so after NRE dies down? I'd like to see you work out your resentment around WI being so bitchy about EL til she got her own lover... That kinds sticks out to me.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

There's no lying in polyamory!

I'm a 58 year old woman with 2 partners:
miss pixi, my live-in gf, 36 (together since Jan '09)
Ginger, bf, 61, married, lives nearby (together since Jan '12)
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  #17  
Old 11-17-2013, 09:32 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulliman View Post
I mean, nobody's sleeping with anyone outside us three (except me, who rarely sees EL). AM [..] wants something deeper and more connected with the two of us, on the one hand, and wants freedom on the other.

I'm full up here.
There's no such thing as "exclusive except." You're exclusive, or you're not. It's pretty black-and-white. If you're not exclusive and you have no intention of being so (by dropping EL), then why waste all this energy overthinking it? Live your lives day by day, take things as they come.

Even if everyone is polysaturated and doesn't have time or energy for new people, that doesn't automatically make it exclusive. And making an exclusivity policy just because everyone happens to be polysaturated at the moment is both silly and moot.

You are not exclusive because you have EL. AM is not exclusive because she is in transition and may decide she wants space and support to explore outside the group.

So at most, it would make sense for you to just let the others know, as a matter of current circumstances, that you yourself are not planning on seeing other people right now.

Exclusivity doesn't make a deeper connection. Spending time together, building intimacy, showing respect, talking about hopes and dreams... those are the things that build deeper connections. When you're not home, you're not home. The connection won't "notice" whether you're at work or on a date. The connection will notice how much time you do spend together and what you do when you're together, not what you're doing when you're not together.
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  #18  
Old 11-17-2013, 09:55 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
Exclusivity doesn't make a deeper connection. Spending time together, building intimacy, showing respect, talking about hopes and dreams... those are the things that build deeper connections. When you're not home, you're not home. The connection won't "notice" whether you're at work or on a date. The connection will notice how much time you do spend together and what you do when you're together, not what you're doing when you're not together.
Hear hear! This wasn't what the thread was intended to be about, but sure, I agree with this. Like I said a little above, it's not my use of the word exclusivity that I'm asking about... It's that others have been trying on the term for size. And finding it sometimes doesn't fit.

As for any relationship, no matter how you spend time together, of course it's about what you do when you're together (or apart, but talking asynchronously, or not even talking but just keeping the other person in mind).
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  #19  
Old 11-17-2013, 09:57 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
I'd like to see you work out your resentment around WI being so bitchy about EL til she got her own lover... That kinds sticks out to me.
Thanks for reading my blog, where that story is talked about. Resentment and bitchy - perhaps harsh words, but I know what you mean by them. We're doing what any couple would do after a set of big changes - working it out. Mostly it's resolved, I'd say, but revisited as needed as we refine our understanding and work through our feelings.
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  #20  
Old 11-18-2013, 03:36 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulliman View Post
Hear hear! This wasn't what the thread was intended to be about, but sure, I agree with this. Like I said a little above, it's not my use of the word exclusivity that I'm asking about... It's that others have been trying on the term for size. And finding it sometimes doesn't fit.
By "others," you mean your wife and your shared gf? And they seem confused about whether they want to "go steady" (to use a Stone Age term), and so you're coming here to get advice on how polys choose to go steady? Not that you want to make a formal declaration of going steady yourself.

I'd say, when in NRE, it's easy to "go steady," because the sun rises and sets on your partner, who is idealized in the early stages.

Going steady should be reserved for after NRE has died down some and you want to make more serious commitments about life sharing. Moving in together, sharing finances, taking long vacations together, coming out to family, etc.

Personally, I like to keep my options open. I havent had a date, with someone besides my LTR people, since July. But I am very busy lately. However my bf had a flurry of dates with 3 new people this summer, and my gf is chatting with about 6 guys online, one of whom she has met once. And she has a date set up with an on again/off again bf for tomorrow.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

There's no lying in polyamory!

I'm a 58 year old woman with 2 partners:
miss pixi, my live-in gf, 36 (together since Jan '09)
Ginger, bf, 61, married, lives nearby (together since Jan '12)
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