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  #21  
Old 11-17-2013, 01:08 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
has no problem understanding the difference between intentionally interfering with another's life who in living their's in no way infringes upon your rights, you you make a choice to infringe upon their's, even if it is only done by wrongful discrimination
I don't understand what you're trying to say.
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  #22  
Old 11-17-2013, 01:46 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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an example of what I am trying to say, has to do with privilege and ignorance, like a poly community attempting to influence peoples private, intimate relationships and when they don't succumb to the influential pressure they are shunned, afflicted, or otherwise marginalized for for exercising their rights of making their own decision on whatever matter is the issue

I am pretty much baffled by situations such as when a marginalized group (such as any form of non-monogamy, but here, specifically poly) who understands and has even experienced wrongful discrimination can ever justify wrongfully discriminated against others in nearly identical situations

specifically a couple who would like to form a triad.




or

anyone who wishes they could get married, yet won't allow others the same privileges, rights, and benefits

like any married couple who would prevent same sex marriages
the same as any same sex marriages would prevent polyamorus marriages

wherein those who claim the only issue is semantics, and it's about the word "marriage" or the sanctity of it is a moot point until there are no rights, benefits, or privileges being unconstitutionally withheld
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  #23  
Old 11-17-2013, 02:04 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
I am pretty much baffled by situations such as when a marginalized group (such as any form of non-monogamy, but here, specifically poly) who understands and has even experienced wrongful discrimination can ever justify wrongfully discriminated against others in nearly identical situations
I used to be baffled at this as well. Then I thought about it a little more, and realized that we're all only human, with limitations and faults. It can be hard to project the feeling of being discriminated against onto other people against whom you are discriminating.

The truth is, on a neurological level, we see people as "us" and "others." Some people are much more accepting, with a broader definition of "us," but it's something each and every human does. No matter how tolerant you are, there will always be some group of people who are "others." It may be to the extreme of Nazis or KKK or the Ford Nation, but no matter who you are, there is some group of people that you see as flawed.

It's our tribal heritage, brain physiology carried over from a period when basic survival meant competing for nuts and berries and hunting grounds, and the only way to assure your personal survival was to help protect "us" and combat the "others."

We are getting better, though. The "us" group is growing with each generation and the "others" group is becoming a small and deliberate opposition who truly don't care for the well-being of the majority. But still, we're only human. We have flaws, we make mistakes, we act without thinking, we think without acting, we feel without reason.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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  #24  
Old 03-22-2014, 01:10 AM
Ashley612 Ashley612 is offline
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Thanks so much for sharing this post. I am totally new to open/poly idea, so honestly didn't get all of that, but what I did get was information that telling me how I feel is totally ok.

I have past damage (emotional) from a first marriage, and it's the only thing that is preventing me from going into poly lifestyle with no fears. I realize it's my problem, and the line about us being used to love being snatched from us and being broken to not fix it hit the nail on the head. That's what makes me hesitant. I love my husband with all my heart and don't want my poly desires and/or the idea of him having someone else ruin our relationships.
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  #25  
Old 05-24-2014, 09:12 AM
Jesse Jesse is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
I'm a firm believer in the notion that the only people who get a vote in how a relationship works are the people in that relationship.
Yes. Some people want nothing more than to be the boy/girlfriend-on-the-side. I should hope that's not what poly is all about, but I think we can agree that such an arrangement does fall within the definition of poly, so long as each participant understands and agrees to the arrangement for what it is.

One consideration that was largely missing from this thread is that of children. Poly is whatever you agree to, but parenthood is its own sort of commitment, with its own category of moral and ethical issues worthy of debate. Many parents will choose to maintain a structured household that prioritizes a stable family environment, such that polyamorous connections must be hierarchically subordinated ("secondary") and subject to extra restrictions. When kids are involved, it would seem to me haphazard to operate with the only rule being "don't be an asshole."
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  #26  
Old 05-24-2014, 04:57 PM
KerryRen KerryRen is offline
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One consideration that was largely missing from this thread is that of children. Poly is whatever you agree to, but parenthood is its own sort of commitment, with its own category of moral and ethical issues worthy of debate. Many parents will choose to maintain a structured household that prioritizes a stable family environment, such that polyamorous connections must be hierarchically subordinated ("secondary") and subject to extra restrictions. When kids are involved, it would seem to me haphazard to operate with the only rule being "don't be an asshole."
It is, however, an excellent place to start from. Don't be an asshole with your partner(s); don't be an asshole with your partner(s)'s children. In general, don't be an asshole.

I have been a child, of course. Frankly, I hated it, for many and varied reasons, but one that sticks with me is that I was an intelligent capable person crippled in my pursuits because I was young. Other people -- adults -- often looked down and talked down to me because I was young, and discounted my knowledge and experiences for that reason. Not all of them, thankfully, but far too many.

I am trying hard not to inflict this on my own children, in their own house; sadly the social attitude persists.

My mother was divorced. Dated, at times. Had live-in boyfriends from time to time. Remarried twice. When she went out on dates, I don't recall it ever bothering me. The live-ins, though, they usually bothered me by claiming authority in the household I didn't perceive them having or deserving. (At least one was nuts, but that's a different issue entirely). At least one new husband bothered me by trying to step into the "father" role; I had one, even if he didn't live with us, and marrying my mother didn't make the man my father. (Might have been different had I been more estranged from my father.) I felt pushed out of my house by the second stepfather, and it wasn't a good start to our relationship.

Had any of them consciously thought of their effects of their behavior/attitudes on me, things might have gone better.

So I try to do the same for my children, and those I'm around. Both of my partners are divorced from previous marriages, and have children from them. Liam's children are not much younger than I am; in the course of our 14 year marriage, I've tried to see what sort of relationship they want from me. Mostly, not much, and that's been fine. Jai has two adult children and one minor one; I've met them all, but not recently.

Liam and I have three minor children. Jai has met the older one, recently, but not the younger two, mostly due to timing.

Potentially, yes, it could be a tangle. But, not worse, I think than some of the situations I encountered growing with my mom. (After she divorced my 1st stepfather, we attended his mother's funeral. With her new boyfriend. It did not feel weird to me at that time, but threw others when I described it later).

I'm sure there would be resentment and problems if, say, Jai tried to act in a father role with my children -- but that could happen if we were in a more standard mono relationship by way of me being widowed or divorced.

Treating the children as people in their own right helps, I think. Letting them determine the relationship they want with non-bio adults is important. Or, for that matter, bio-adults -- I did a surrogate pregnancy, traditional not gestational. As they live across state, we mostly maintain an email friendship. But I've visited them, and they visit at least once every year. This was not determined by contract; by contract I wanted a yearly update with a picture. This is connection, and friendship, created by getting to know each other and having things in common as well as interesting differences. Our shared child, when she visits, refers to me as her mother. She also calls her mother, who raised her, her mother, as you'd expect. This is how she sees things, and we're all fine with it. We've become an extended family, with the shared child as a hinge.

So, anyway, I've rambled on quite enough now....
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- Jai, 41 y/o bi male
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