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  #101  
Old 11-12-2013, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by willowstar View Post
London, I understand what you mean by this. Yes, making demands that a certain partner "has to" socialize with the family can come across that way. However, I wonder if perhaps these people are craving or desiring community. I know quite a few poly people who prefer "inclusive" love styles, where everyone knows everyone else. And stating that they would like the new partner to be part of the "community" is okay, but I agree the individual should be free to decide how much they would like to interact with that community...
Even in our V, I can still feel "smothered" in this way. I LOVE people, don't get me wrong, but I don't like feeling that someone is trying to bash their way into my "inner circle" - that's up to ME, not them - and I will push back when I feel that happening.

Not sure what my point is, other than I think you have a good point, and it's a good idea to be mindful of this in any configuration.
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  #102  
Old 11-13-2013, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by willowstar View Post
Yes, making demands that a certain partner "has to" socialize with the family can come across that way. However, I wonder if perhaps these people are craving or desiring community. I know quite a few poly people who prefer "inclusive" love styles, where everyone knows everyone else. And stating that they would like the new partner to be part of the "community" is okay, but I agree the individual should be free to decide how much they would like to interact with that community...
This can be true for sure.
But-the other thing is-that there is a huge difference between saying "YOU HAVE TO socialize with my family"
and
"I only have 1 day a week available to date outside of my current family commitments. You are welcome to see me ANY day-but the other 6 days-you would be seeing me AND my family."

That isn't forcing anyone.
That is letting them know the limits of your time availability-which seems to be a damn difficult concept to a few people on this board.

My situation is that I have school M/W. I am NOT available those days AT ALL period.
T/TH/F I have the kids and no available babysitter. But-I am open to date or socialize if someone is willing to do it WITH the kids in tow.
Weekends I have a couple hours free to do with as I please alone. But the largest chunk of my time is devoted to family activities. Others are more than welcome to join. But I'm not available if they are wanting exclusive time with me.

It's not manipulative or controlling to identify your limitations upfront. It's honesty and actually freeing-because it gives the other person the option to decide if your limitations work for them.
I think of it as being very similar to condom use. I'm not available for sex without a condom. That isn't manipulative even if the guy wants to have sex without a condom. That's my choice for MY body. He can choose to have sex with someone else.

Likewise-someone who wants more than a couple of hours a week and is unwilling to socialize with my family-can date someone who is available more without contact with their family. It's not manipulative. It's my life, my time, my body, my choice.
Their choice is to accept or decline.
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Last edited by LovingRadiance; 11-13-2013 at 01:22 AM.
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  #103  
Old 11-13-2013, 01:29 AM
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ImaginaryIllusion ImaginaryIllusion is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
This particular thread was started because someone labelled herself a unicorn when it was clear she actually wanted to be treated like an free woman with her own rights and opinions, which is exactly what a unicorn does not have.
And this is the kind of overloading of the term which does not belong....

The Unicorn term is used outside the poly world, through the swinging realm, and possibly some areas of the BDSM community. It doesn't belong exclusively to the poly community to redefine along a particular political agenda.

The common factor of the definitions basically comes down to the bi female who is willing to engage with couples. Period, End, Stop. That's the only factor that plays into the rarity paradigm, because everyone is looking for one, yet few if any ever seem to find one.

All this other nonsense about a unicorn being rare because they're somehow willing to give up their adult rights or to enjoy being an indentured sex slave, etc. is specific only to a few area's of the poly blogging sphere from some particular individuals with an axe to grind. Frankly doesn't do the community as a whole any service, as it's been mostly a drive to chastise and alienate a wide swath of people in or coming into poly from the monostream world.

Now, if we want to look at patriarchal overtones in things like OPP's, Unicorn hunting patterns, and lopsided relationship agreements, then there might be a basis for these issues in that discussion, because most of them are vestiges of the over-ridding patriarchal systems prevalent in the western world.
But they are not part of the Unicorn definition.
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  #104  
Old 11-13-2013, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ImaginaryIllusion View Post

All this other nonsense about a unicorn being rare because they're somehow willing to give up their adult rights or to enjoy being an indentured sex slave, etc. is specific only to a few area's of the poly blogging sphere
And now Urban Dictionary, so....well I think our definition will probably prevail.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unicorn
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  #105  
Old 11-13-2013, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
And now Urban Dictionary, so....well I think our definition will probably prevail.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unicorn
Thank you, Nadja. Let's put that definition right here, shall we? It's a well written and comprehensive overview of a common phenomenon in this poly world.

Quote:
1. Unicorn
Colloquial; Synonym for hot bi babe or HBB, often derogatory, condescending, or ironic. A bisexual person, usually though not always female, who is willing to join an existing couple, often with the presumption that this person will date and become sexually involved with both members of that couple, and not demand anything or do anything which might cause problems or inconvenience to that couple.

The term is often used to be dismissive of a couple seen to be only superficially polyamorous. Because of the demands that this type of couple places on the woman (that she be single and not take on any additional partners, and become involved with both members of the couple equally, and often "complete" their family as a surrogate mother and housekeeper and/or breadwinner and not do anything that may threaten or disrupt the existing couple), many in the poly community call this type of woman a "unicorn", as in mythical and not likely to be found, even though there are plenty of bipoly women around.

Sometimes the unicorn is expected to not develop any emotional attachment and is strictly there for a sexual relationship (equally distributed to both members of the dyad) and/or is prescripted as a secondary. This term is used as a reminder that bipoly women are people with their own desires, needs, and pre-existing lives, and not fantasy figures or pets. See related prescriptive vs. descriptive.
John wants a single, attractive woman who will love and have sex equally with him and his wife, but not interfere with their marriage, move in together, help raise their kids but not have any of her own, and not have any other partners. He's looking for something that doesn't exist - he's looking for a unicorn!
I see it's 974 thumbs up, 563 down. Perhaps II gave it a thumbs down. But about twice as many people agree with this definition as reject it.
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  #106  
Old 11-13-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ImaginaryIllusion View Post
And this is the kind of overloading of the term which does not belong....

The Unicorn term is used outside the poly world, through the swinging realm, and possibly some areas of the BDSM community.
II, are you a swinger? Did you hunt Unicorns in the swinging world? Have sex with them and your female partner, or know people who did? I don't swing, but, I imagine 3way sex (FMF) is fairly common. So, a woman willing to engage in a 3way sex sesssion wouldn't be that rare and wouldn't really be a Unicorn.
Quote:

It doesn't belong exclusively to the poly community to redefine along a particular political agenda.
"Political?" I hate politics. I just want to warn people away from being and seeking a woman that doesn't exist, given the definition above. I don't want couples to be foolish and deluded (like my ex husband and I were), and I don't want Unicorns to be hurt (as I hurt my husband's gf when she wasn't interested in me romantically).

Quote:
The common factor of the definitions basically comes down to the bi female who is willing to engage with couples. Period, End, Stop. That's the only factor that plays into the rarity paradigm, because everyone is looking for one, yet few if any ever seem to find one.
"Engage?" You mean sexually? Then it's not polyamory, it's just polyfuckery. Engage romantically, sexually, domestically, etc.-- that is the way I define it for the purposes of discussion on a poly board. We aren't a swingers board. If someone comes here from the swinging world, thinking they can get a HBB, or be a HBB in the poly world, they will see the concept here has more ramifications than just hot 3way sex. As in the thread you locked, the Unicorn was expected not just to "engage" with a couple, but to only have 3way dates and sex, never be in a dyad, and also miss out on much of the discussion her couple were having behind her back (a factor of "couple privilege.")

Quote:
All this other nonsense about a unicorn being rare because they're somehow willing to give up their adult rights or to enjoy being an indentured sex slave, etc. is specific only to a few area's of the poly blogging sphere from some particular individuals with an axe to grind.
Let me just say "axe to grind" seems a rather offensive way to put it, when we are just up to here with unsuccessful Unicorn Hunters and their unwitting prey. Don't call them Unicorns if YOU don't want to. I happen to think it does some good to have a term for it. Expanding the definition from merely "a woman willing to engage with a couple" to "a woman who is a hot bi babe who probably will get the short end of the stick in a relationship with a committed couple," seems perfectly fine to me. I don't understand why you are so angry about it.

Quote:
Frankly doesn't do the community as a whole any service, as it's been mostly a drive to chastise and alienate a wide swath of people in or coming into poly from the monostream world.
Is that so? Do you mean we've driven Unicorn Hunters away from this board and back to Craigslist, or swinging, or *gasp* to getting therapy and working on their issues, or becoming monogamous, or splitting up? Well, if an explanation about why Unicorn Hunting and trapping and catching and engaging often turns rather abusive is enough to turn away a couple from polyamory altogether, were they really poly to begin with? Do we just placate them and tell them to go on with their noble quest? Or is it OK we tell them the pitfalls of searching for this woman without calling her a Unicorn, in your opinion?

Quote:
Now, if we want to look at patriarchal overtones in things like OPP's, Unicorn hunting patterns, and lopsided relationship agreements, then there might be a basis for these issues in that discussion, because most of them are vestiges of the over-ridding patriarchal systems prevalent in the western world.
But they are not part of the Unicorn definition.
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miss pixi, 37

Last edited by Magdlyn; 11-13-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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  #107  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:37 PM
northhome northhome is offline
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
often derogatory, condescending, or ironic
Could it be that to use a term that is "derogatory and condescending" might not be the best way to engage in constructive, amiable and helpful discourse?

There might be nicer ways to get the message across. Just saying.
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  #108  
Old 11-14-2013, 05:30 AM
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Something I posted in another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
. . . "unicorn hunters" is a phrase that means a couple is looking for something mythical that doesn't exist. So, just because a bi woman is, or has been, in a triad doesn't mean she is a unicorn - to call her that doesn't make sense. If she exists, she isn't a unicorn! It isn't a triad, per se, that is mythical. The mythical creature is used to describe the unrealistic fantasies of the unicorn-hunting couple, not the relationship configuration nor the actual woman herself.
To that, BorinGuy responded:
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Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
I'm quoting this. Nobody will read it though. People will still think "unicorn " is a term of endearment and that "unicorn hunters" are misunderstood victims of victim-blaming.
In a different thread, AutumnalTone posted this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
You're coming at it backwards, though. The actual term is "unicorn hunters" and refers to the *couple* with unrealistic expectations. A woman is only thus a "unicorn" by dint of being sought by said couple.

As far as the term "unicorn hunters" being derogatory..I agree that it is, to a degree. I also think it is *rightly* derogatory, as what it describes is not a healthy situation. The presence and use of such a term provides notice to those to whom it may apply that they are best off examining their motivations and expectations to have a good chance of success with multiple relationships.

The term is not applied to all situations and relationships--at least, not by anybody who is at all knowledgeable about the term.
I know folks who are interested by the prospect of "finding a third" and who most definitely are *not* unicorn hunters.

. . . you're positing that the term is aimed at the "unicorn" and that it is applied indiscriminately. Neither of those are true.
Just thought I'd toss these into the mix.

Also, here are some juicy old threads on the topic, if anyone wants to spend some time reading:

OPP, unicorns, and derogatory poly terminology


Do I qualify as a unicorn hunter?

What's in it for a unicorn?

Single ladies, using the term "unicorn"
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Last edited by nycindie; 11-14-2013 at 05:34 AM.
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  #109  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:49 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
And now Urban Dictionary, so....well I think our definition will probably prevail.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unicorn
I think urban dictionary is about as useful as toilet paper..

haha.. in this case, it isn't a synonym for hot bi babe. A unicorn can be one but it isn't the same. What a crock!!!

I am married, as well as dating.. hot bi babes that aren't unicorns... :O:O:O holy smokes urban dictionary is wrong..

I am with II. unicorn is not a poly term. Its an alternate lifestyle term. I knew what it meant long before coming into poly. Just because some of us want to redefine a meaning doesn't make it true. Calling a donkey a horse because urban dictionary might tell me, doesn't make it so.

I did/do "swing" (my relationship is open and I liked threesomes, I didn't do swinging parties but did know swingers) and I did have threesomes. And not every fmf threesome is a "triad" setup. Finding women who actually want to fuck women and men, isn't that easy (there is also the case of bi-experimenters, which is far more common then actual bi-sexuals). So yes, they are still unicorns even in the swinging community. As we have all ascertained many times, you can have threeways without everyone involved touching everyone else.

In the end, my personal opinion and those in the poly circles I am involved in. a unicorn is a bi-sexual women interested in getting involved with a couple in a locked in threeway relationship. Period. Doesn't have to be hot, doesn't have to even be unhealthy.. I know a few "unicorns" that prefer it that way. gives them the ability to be a secondary which suits some personalities.

Is a poly unicorn more rare than a swinging one.. sure, maybe. Maybe we need to come up with sub labels for unicorns to add more clarity to the situation... (that was sarcasm by the way)

I also know very happy poly unicorn .. couplings?, trouplings?.. groups.. ahh that works, that work quite well and people are happy. So the premise that a unicorn hunting couple is damaging is just plain incorrect and ignorant. Are there ones who suck, yep as with all relationships, lots of people suck at them. Unicorn "hunters" don't own the rights to co-dependent abuse. Luckily most of the happy ones I know, don't come to forums like this. The pent up abuse because there are bad ones, would just be plain horrible for them.

Its unfortunate circumstances. But this forum abuses people who don't fit this forums poly-ideals which is dictated by the active members. The abuser is sometimes blind to the abuse they dish out, but that doesn't make it less true.

Last edited by LovingRadiance; 11-14-2013 at 09:15 PM.
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  #110  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:54 PM
northhome northhome is offline
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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
But this forum abuses people who don't fit this forums poly-ideals which is dictated by the active members. The abuser is sometimes blind to the abuse they dish out, but that doesn't make it less true.
Thanks for pointing this out, I agree totally. You're being quite blunt about it, but subtle hints have been of little use I notice. Sometimes one has to draw line in the sand.
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