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  #11  
Old 11-10-2013, 01:11 AM
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Emm Emm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunoni View Post
I would be ok with doing counseling but I know she won't agree to it
Have you actually asked, or are you assuming this?
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2013, 02:17 AM
Brunoni Brunoni is offline
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I have actually ask a couple of times.

She has said no I don't want to tell anyone my shit, as she puts it, or will say I don't need any counseling you do.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2013, 06:21 AM
london london is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
Reading between the lines, I get the impression that these "agreements" are more like you telling her how you want it and pushing until she concedes. It doesn't sound like her needs are being taken into account.

I agree that trust is earned and that she has broken it and therefore does not merit trust. But trust works both ways. She has to be able to trust that sharing her feelings with you will be safe, that you won't try to take away the other people that make her happy.

I also believe that your behaviour has created half the problem. She started seeing "affair #1 guy" with your knowledge. You didn't like the way he bought her gifts, but she did. Maybe you envied his ability to give her things she wanted that you could not give her. So you laid down the law and forbade her from seeing him, even though that relationship was already under way. When she didn't obey your command to stop seeing him, you considered that cheating. But she is not your property and it is not your right to end her existing relationships.

Her time is hers to spend with whomever she wants. The time she chooses to spend with her girlfriend is not "your time." You don't own her. You don't own her time. Your feeling of entitlement and possessiveness does not change that basic fact.

You're expecting her to behave in a way that clearly does not follow what she wants. So "trust" is not the core issue, if you're expecting her to fit into your ideals and she is not willing to bend to your rules.

If you want to save your marriage, you need to stop trying to control her. You've taken away everyone she's tried to love. Is it really so surprising that she now wants to hide them from you, lest you destroy those relationships too?

If you want her to be honest with you, you need to foster an environment where she is safe to tell the truth without fear that you're going to use it against her. You don't have to like her lovers, you don't have to get along with them. She loves them, they make her happy. Love and especially marriage mean you sometimes put their happiness first. It's not all about you.
From what I read, she was supposed to be swinging with the first man. Not dating him in that sense. That was the betrayal and from there, she kept slipping.
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2013, 02:35 PM
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Derbylicious Derbylicious is offline
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Do the people who she's talking to know that you have access to all of her conversations? If I have a private conversation with someone I'm not sure I'd be comfortable having the contents of that conversation passed on to someone else. I think that it's OK for you to know who she's talking to and even to ask for an idea of what the conversations are about but it's an invasion of privacy on your wife and even more so on the third party to expect to read these conversations on a whim.

As for asking if getting together with her girlfriend without your knowledge or permission is an affair, I don't believe it is. It may be disrespectful but you do have knowledge of their relationship and it is ongoing. Even if she doesn't tell you every single time they hook up it's not an affair. It seems a little strange to have to ask for permission before seeing an established lover every time you see them.
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  #15  
Old 11-11-2013, 01:24 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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How about listing behaviors you would like?
  • You would like to heal from past affairs. To help with that...
  • You would like her to apologize.
  • You would like her to make amends by
    • not dating new people for the next X months? Stick to the GF so you have a chance to get used to some stability?
    • let you read her email/FB/phone for the next X months to show she is trustworthy and isn't plotting new affairs so you can calm down?
    • go see a counselor together?
    • Time spent with you, dates, etc. Not taken for granted.
    • To know ahead of time on family calendar if she plan to go out and not just take off
And then behaviors she would like?
  • She would like her privacy.

Then ask her if she is willing and able to do it or not.

If she's not willing/able to work with you/consider your needs in relationship?

Then you could have a different conversation. Because if she's just not willing to relate? There's no two way relationship here. Sigh.

I am so sorry you are dealing in this. But try to move it forward to healing/healthy space for YOU at least. With or without her.

Galagirl
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  #16  
Old 11-11-2013, 01:26 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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How about listing behaviors you would like?

You would like to heal from past affairs. To help with that...

You would like her to apologize.

You would like her to make amends by
  • not dating new people for the next X months? Stick to the GF so you have a chance to get used to some stability?
  • let you read her email/FB/phone for the next X months to show she is trustworthy and isn't plotting new affairs so you can calm down?
  • go see a counselor together?
  • Time spent with you, dates, etc. Not taken for granted.
  • To know ahead of time on family calendar if she plan to go out and not just take off

And then behaviors she would like?
  • She would like her privacy.

Then ask her if she is willing and able to do it or not.

If she's not willing/able to work with you/consider your needs in relationship?

Then you could have a different conversation. Because if she's just not willing to relate? There's no two way relationship here. Sigh.

I am so sorry you are dealing in this. But try to move it forward to healing/healthy space for YOU at least. With or without her.

Galagirl
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