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  #31  
Old 11-09-2013, 10:04 PM
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Ok, that bit comes in when you're discussing with one of the red flag family style people I'm talking about. When you discuss why you're a fan of a hub style, especially in relation to trust, they become very defensive and will often call you naive or something because you don't feel it necessary to supervise your parners relationships in the way that they do.
That need to supervise partners is not a feature of family style poly at all. It's a feature of controlling, insecure people, no matter what relationship style they prefer. I've seen exactly the same behaviour, with exactly the same frequency, in hub-style poly as well as monogamy.

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I dont understand why you are thanking someone for a post directed at me. Especially one that the person. partially rescinded once I clarified my opinion.
The thank you was directed at me, so you don't have to understand it. I understood the reason perfectly well.

I've rescinded nothing. I got you to clarify your position, and it was your clarification that I accepted, not your original statement by any means.

I stand firmly by my assertion that there's nothing inherently wrong with family style polyamory. That some people make a mess of it by having unrelated insecurity and control issues is irrelevant to the question of whether or not family style polyamory is a valid form of relationships. Just like people having jealousy issues is irrelevant to the question of whether or not polyamory is a valid form of relationship.

For each and every relationship style in existence, there are people who fuck it up. Pointing at the fuck-ups and saying "that's because they have such-and-such relationships style" is flat out wrong, a logical fallacy: "If there exists a black sheep, then all sheep are black."

What I accept is that you have personally run into a lot of these fuck-ups and this has coloured your observations of other family-style polys, caused you to put assumptions on them and then only see the evidence that fits those assumptions, and ignore any evidence that contradicts your beliefs. That's unfortunate. It's that kind of short-sightedness that leads to racism, sexism, classism, and discrimination in general.

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My opinion will alter when I come across more people in a family style of poly who do not try and control their partner's relationship, demand to be asked permission to date someone they like, have sex with them etc.
I don't believe that you will. Your opinion is pretty clearly set. You HAVE seen counter-examples, and you've chosen to cloud them with your pre-existing beliefs. You can't see that which you have already decided does not exist.

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Can you give me any examples of people who don't play that way, LR? People in family style poly situations where the members are allowed to develop relationships at their own pace without the most vocal and manipulative member of the network constantly throwing a spanned in the works just to remind everyone that they run the show? Do point them out.
LR herself is in one of those relationships. Her partners are free to develop relationships however the fuck they want. What you can't seem to comprehend is that THEY CHOOSE to only form relationships that are compatible with the family model, because THEY are not willing to give up family time in order to date other people.
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  #32  
Old 11-09-2013, 10:21 PM
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I'm sorry, from what I've read, I can't agree with you about your last comment at all.
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  #33  
Old 11-09-2013, 10:25 PM
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All right, I can accept that. You've finally whittled it down to where it's not a sweeping generalization aboutallpeople who prefer family style polyamory. Thank you.
^^

And also, are you this condemning of people who have similar "red flags" about unicorn hunters? Ie every couple seeking a triad is a unicorn hunter until proven otherwise?
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  #34  
Old 11-09-2013, 10:30 PM
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I'm sorry, from what I've read, I can't agree with you about your last comment at all.
Based on what exactly?
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  #35  
Old 11-09-2013, 10:39 PM
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And also, are you this condemning of people who have similar "red flags" about unicorn hunters? Ie every couple seeking a triad is a unicorn hunter until proven otherwise?
I'm this condemning of all people who use broad brushes to paint their assumptions on all the people in a particular group without giving individuals a chance to show their true colours.

I acknowledge that I myself have my own preconceived notions, and I strive to rise above them and allow people to show me who they are as individuals and not merely as members of their associated group. I may not always succeed, I am human after all, but I try not to make generalized assumptions about entire social groups based only on encounters with a small subset of those groups.
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The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 11-09-2013 at 10:43 PM.
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  #36  
Old 11-09-2013, 10:55 PM
london london is offline
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What I've read. I'm not prepared to discuss this further, here, but that is my opinion. Feel free to message me further about this if you so wish.

I will, however, recap my views on the topic itself:

When someone says that they practice a family style of poly where the expectation is for all members of the network to spend time as a unit and meeting potential metamours is an absolute must and that sort of thing, it raises red flags for me. It does this because when I hear the reasons why they want this, more often than not it relates to them requiring some form of.supervision of those relationships opposed to the benefits of family poly living, although they may be mentioned as an afterthought. Requiring supervision.signifies that one or more of the people in this relationship either cannot trust or cannot be trusted. I agree that people in other relationship styles raise similar red flags and I'm sure you've seen me say as much, but like a closed triad is an attractive route for a couple with all the flaws notorious in unicorn hunters, I feel a family style of poly is attractive for another type of dyad with similar flaws. And again, since I am a straight female, I am less concerned about unicorn hunters than this.
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  #37  
Old 11-09-2013, 11:01 PM
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I do give people a chance to show what they are about. That is why I now don't immediately dismiss guys who have that relationship style, I will at least ask their expectations if it isn't clear from the offset. Hearing "family style" or similar prompts me to ask additional questions to normal because of the red flags it raises for me.
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  #38  
Old 11-10-2013, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post

The thank you was directed at me, so you don't have to understand it. I understood the reason perfectly well.

LR herself is in one of those relationships. Her partners are free to develop relationships however the fuck they want. What you can't seem to comprehend is that THEY CHOOSE to only form relationships that are compatible with the family model, because THEY are not willing to give up family time in order to date other people.
I could give other examples as well-but it wouldn't make sense since none of them are people who post here.

The truth is-that just because people choose to do things similar, doesn't mean anyone is making them.

I choose to attend UAA. Other people choose to attend UAA. We take classes together, we study together, we learn together, we do group projects together. We aren't forcing each other or manipulating or controlling each other into that. We are individually choosing to do something the same way.

There are other people who are choosing to go to college somewhere else. They are also not being manipulated by us, nor are they manipulating us. They simply have choosen to do something different that we have.

Likewise with family style/hub. Both are do-able. For different people. My sister operates very "family style" with us and our larger group of friends. However-she is very "hub style" with her boyfriend and his family. The two groups aren't intermixed and theirs doesn't socialize outside of their household, together.

So for example; she had a "household bday" at their place. Then, tonight, we had friends and family and extended family including kids and oso's BUT NOT INCLUDING her household here. Her idea. Her plan. In both cases.
Because she CHOOSES to use both styles.
Shrug.

For our household we each have different REASONS for choosing a family style. But it's our choices. Once the kids are grown, a lot of that will change. But the kids aren't grown.
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  #39  
Old 11-10-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by london View Post

When someone says that they practice a family style of poly where the expectation is for all members of the network to spend time as a unit and meeting potential metamours is an absolute must and that sort of thing, it raises red flags for me.
I agree with this. Now.when I was seeing Z, it was fine to.do activitiea with his gf and her other partners ans N because we were already friends anyway. Bit if I was talking to someone new and it was required that I.mostly spend.time with his.other partners I would back away. I don't mind meeting someone but mt relationship is with the person I am involved.with, not their partners. I understand people like that dynamic and that is fine.for thwem and.there's but I choose not to participate. Unless it just happen to develop that way. I had never expected to friend J but since she lived with my bff and N'a mom we happened t spend time together in group activities that we just naturally became frienda.
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  #40  
Old 11-10-2013, 07:48 PM
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I understand people like that dynamic and that is fine.for thwem and.there's but I choose not to participate.
And there is the key detail that has been repeatedly missed in the conversations.
None of the examples I ever gave suggested someone else should EVER EVER agree to be a part of our dynamic if they weren't comfortable with our chosen relationship styles.
It would make some people crazy.

But-the fact that we all three choose to do it that way-works for us. We're not trying to force other people to do it our way. We're saying, we don't date people who aren't like-minded.

The guys flat refuse to write on here-because they think it's a wasted effort to explain to "internet people" what they prefer or how they choose to live their lives and neither is interested in participating in any poly groups because they think there is too much "this way or you aren't really poly" attitudes that they find offensive.
But-that doesn't mean that they don't have opinions. It doesn't mean I "make them" do things "my" way. It means-they don't want to talk to anyone on here.
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