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  #171  
Old 11-06-2013, 09:14 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Like Magdlyn I made a disastrous mistake also, I am not really able to talk about it still as it is too painful (really dedicated people can easily find out) but I would never, ever want any one to go through what I went through. I wish people wouldn't cling to this fantasy I really do, because I don't want them to feel that sort of pain, but I DO realise that people have to make their own mistakes also. It is hard to find the right balance sometimes.
I am sorry for your pain, Natja.

The thing is, the darn innocent or stubborn unicorn hunters that come here, maybe even after going through several women already, but still wanting to find "the right woman," they don't know it's the form of the relationship, not those women they rejected (or were rejected by) that is at fault.

Sharing a woman does not prevent jealousy!!! It can actually increase it. For example: Imagine a 3way where the husband is so excited to be with this new hot woman, he spends most of the so-called 3way focusing on her, while his wife is off to the sidelines waiting her turn. Finally it's her turn! He comes to fuck his wife, gets his penis in her vagina, and.... it wilts. Imagine the wife's humiliation! Imagine his dismay at his NRE-craving cock. Or imagine him not being dismayed, getting off his wife and getting back to fucking the gf.

(Something similar happened to me in a 4some a couple years back. My gf's ex (from 10 years ago) came to town, she was a swinger, we decided to have a 4some, with my young male playpartner. He was so excited to be with someone new, he fucked her 5 times in the course of the evening and into the next day. In that time period, he tried to fuck me once, and wilted.)
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

Mags, F, 60, poly-dating, loving and living with
miss pixi, F, 38
also seeing
Punk, 42, M (dating since Oct 2015)
and a few more casual relationships
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  #172  
Old 11-07-2013, 04:27 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I really do not have a problem with triads. I also could care less about those single women who seek couples, or those couples who seek single women.

My only grievance is with those that want this perfect woman to fit into a box. It is like they miss the part where the woman has a personality, thoughts, a voice, style of communicating, wants, and needs of her own. She has a high standard to meet even before the first day. These couples usually have been together for years, well-established, and they just want someone to tagalong to the well oiled machine. She is just automatically supposed to be gung-ho about three-way sex and all this togetherness. She is usually not allowed to be alone with the husband. The wife may or may not be bisexual. Sometimes she is just exploring that side. She might have to be okay with babysitting, disrespectful little brats, and never being allowed to have children of her own--specifically if it is poly-fi, and the male has either had a vasectomy, or the wife is not okay with said woman having children by her husband or any other man for that matter. (Last time I checked, women control their vaginas and right to reproduce.) Sometimes the woman even has to be in the closet because the other two loves of the triad are unwilling or unable to come out. Second class citizen is too good for these women. Some are treated like less.

It sounds awful, so I cannot imagine how it feels for the newly added person in these situations. I forgot the best one of all...they tell this woman that she must date both, and if the relationship ends with either of them, the whole thing is kaput. Nevermind that she will be left heartbroken and homeless if they invited her to live with them.

Admittedly, I have posed questions to those singles and couples alike. It is out of curiosity and wondering why. (It is no different than if I were to ask a mono woman why she prefers tall men with muscles and sandy brown hair or a man who makes six or seven figures a year.) Never to demean them because the truth is this one right here could not give a fuck what they do with their lives. I am not losing any sleep, and my quality of life is not being reduced, so it just does not matter. I am curious because I have no preferences, as I do not experience primary/sexual attraction, so it is interesting to find out why people seek what they do.

I would be an epic fail if I was single and seeking a couple. I hate three-way sex. I had one threesome last year and never again. I barely liked having sex with two people, and I was a-okay when my second relationship transitioned to non-sexual. So the odds of me falling for both people in that couple and loving them both? Hell would freeze over first. I would have to experience that special connection, and it has only happened five times in the years I have been dating. Very rare. The last time was when I met my ex-girlfriend...in 2000. Since then, nothing. I have only been sexually attracted to one man in my life, and he is the only man I have ever been intimate with: my husband. I am not a candidate for a triad from either side. I respect those that are.
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Last edited by FullofLove1052; 11-07-2013 at 04:30 PM.
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  #173  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:33 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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l

Frankly, neither wants to be associated with "poly" when they see the attitude of conversations on boards like this. It's one reason this thread is interesting to me, seeing the space of responses, but I'm different from the two of them...
My guys feel the same. They became so disgusted with the behavior in the "poly communities" they encountered-and the conversations on this board; that neither have anything to do with any "poly" talk, groups, social arenas etc.
They just live our life and socialize with whoever wanders into their life and goes from there.
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  #174  
Old 11-07-2013, 10:27 PM
london london is offline
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@FullofLove Weren't you in a triad where you had certain restrictive expectations of your girlfriend concerning her baby making? I'm sure I read an old thread recently. That's not to say your feelings didn't evolve over time if it was you, just you'd have more insight into someone who does have those expectations and how they feel perfectly reasonable at the time, at least.
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  #175  
Old 11-07-2013, 11:07 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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@FullofLove Weren't you in a triad where you had certain restrictive expectations of your girlfriend concerning her baby making? I'm sure I read an old thread recently. That's not to say your feelings didn't evolve over time if it was you, just you'd have more insight into someone who does have those expectations and how they feel perfectly reasonable at the time, at least.
It was not really a restriction. I am more inclined to believe it was my own red flags going up screaming red alert. I had just had a baby months prior and a very difficult pregnancy. It was a lot of stress and health issues surrounding my pregnancy and even after his birth. My hormones were batshit crazy, too. Never suggest something ludicrous to a sleep deprived, stressed out, second time mum. I will tell anybody I was not even remotely a-okay with the idea of another child. It could have been the Virgin Mary herself at that point, and I would have been like, "Bitch, have you lost your mind, and more importantly, do you need help finding it?" Different person and different circumstances back then? Who knows? Everything has changed, so that is not even in the realm of possibility. All I know is my ex? Not a chance in hell.

So yes, my feelings have evolved, and now that I know what my ex is about and what her intentions with that situation were, thank you God it did not happen. That poor baby would have been leverage in her sick and twisted game. This was by her own admission. She was a good person, but she does not need to be anybody's mother. Thank heavens she knows it. The day my daughter asks, "Who," when someone asks her about my ex will be a wonderful day. I want her to forget that nightmare.
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  #176  
Old 11-08-2013, 03:17 AM
RiverDwellers RiverDwellers is offline
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Now I find this enlightening, all this talk about triads and "unicorn hunters". So many terms for me, a newbie to learn. But what I come away from this, is that everyone just wants to make everyone else feel loved in the relationship. Isn't that the way it is supposed to be? I mean, when someone in your circle looks at you, don't you want to feel loved, wanted and respected? It seems to me that open communication is always the key and you should never do what you don't want to do or be "pushed" into being anything you don't want to be. We haven't found our "other" and don't know who it will be, whether its a man, woman or a couple. We aren't in any hurry and if it happens, it happens.

Personally, though, I hate titles and just think you should be free to love, like, feel affection for anyone you choose.
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  #177  
Old 11-08-2013, 09:32 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveBunny View Post
As for the labels, they bug me. "Unicorn hunters" and "swingers" are looked down on, who gets to decide this?
I acknowledge that I have some contradictory opinions when it comes to labels. On one hand, I want nothing to do with them. But on the other hand, everyone gets really attached to theirs, and they don't want me to take theirs away.

The challenge is that labels are only useful in conversation if everyone agrees with the language. If I pick up a bottle on the grocery shelf and the label says "ketchup" then I know what my hotdog is going to taste like when I pour it on. I shouldn't have to write to each manufacturer to make sure that all the bottles of "ketchup" are basically what I expect them to be. Within the label of "ketchup," I expect to find variations in seasoning. I don't expect each brand of ketchup to taste identical, but I expect them all to "taste like ketchup."

That's why I get so pedantic about language and labels. If someone calls themselves a unicorn, that word has a meaning that is generally understood in the context of "unicorn-hunters."

It's important to understand the order of events. First, there were people who looked to "complete" their relationship with a very specific type of woman with virtually unattainable characteristics. Often, they disrespected the autonomy of the woman they're seeking. Who gets to decide that disrespecting someone's autonomy is deplorable? I do. And I'm in good company. So first these people were out there doing this thing. It was only when they reached a critical mass that other people went "Wow, this is really a 'thing.' Let's give them all a name so that we can refer to them more easily. They're looking for something imaginary. Unicorns are imaginary. Let's say they're hunting unicorns."

It simply wasn't the case that first there were these women out there looking for couples to date, and they were like "Hey you know who else likes to date couples? Unicorns. So I'm going to call myself a unicorn, because that means someone who likes to date couples." No. Unicorns are just horses with a magical pole sticking out of their forehead.

Someone called me out for all of this contradicting my tag. I don't believe that it does. You see, labels ARE sticky. They come with connotations and assumptions. When you define yourself with labels, you inherit all those assumptions, like it or not. So if you're going to slap a big sparkly sticker on your forehead, it's probably a good idea to do some research first and make sure you really understand what that sticker says, and how others will interpret it. Because when you find that out after the fact, you'll realize that it's left glue all over your skin.
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  #178  
Old 11-08-2013, 10:01 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
...Wait a minute, they are on a board with hundreds of members, asking for advice, and they get ton of it, from well meaning people, and then they feel piled upon!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
Like Magdlyn I made a disastrous mistake also, I am not really able to talk about it still as it is too painful (really dedicated people can easily find out) but I would never, ever want any one to go through what I went through.
And that's just it. By and large, these arrangements explode like the Challenger. The fact that the most recent thread to trigger this conversation "again" was yet another "I don't understand why my unicorn story didn't have a happy ending" is only more evidence AGAINST this whole approach.

What kind of logic dictates:
Them: "I applied this label to myself. I went out seeking to fulfill my label. I fulfilled it, and then it crashed, and now I'm not happy. What went wrong?"
Me: "How about abandoning the label?"
Them: "DON'T JUDGE ME!"
?

Honestly, I don't believe it's wise for anyone to deliberately seek out specific relationship models, with rigid expectations and catastrophic consequences if things don't go exactly as planned. I think it's a bad idea for monos, polys, triads, and any other type of relationship model you can come up with. From all the relationships I have been in personally, observed in real life, and read about here and on other forums, it's become abundantly clear that the best relationships develop when you abandon your intent and just let life happen.

The other thing is that I think unicorn hunters delude themselves. They probably genuinely believe that they're a perfectly happy couple with no real issues to work on, and nothing but sugar and roses to share with their special woman. But c'mon. If you were that happy, you wouldn't feel the need to search, desperately, for someone to complete your family. You'd be too busy staring dotingly into each other's eyes to have time for spending hours and hours scouring the internet and local groups for this woman. So it's really no wonder that these things blow up, because nothing highlights major cracks in your foundation like building a second floor on your house.
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Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 11-08-2013 at 10:04 AM.
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  #179  
Old 11-08-2013, 11:22 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I believe you could be right, SC.

I look at how most of these couples describe themselves, and it sounds...perfect. "Still madly in love, open communication, been married 16 years to my university sweetheart, love to cuddle, love to take long walks on the beach, have exactly 2.5 children, a dog, and we just need a third/woman to complete us and our family." With all of that gushing happiness and perfection, who needs more?

Quote:
Honestly, I don't believe it's wise for anyone to deliberately seek out specific relationship models, with rigid expectations and catastrophic consequences if things don't go exactly as planned. I think it's a bad idea for monos, polys, triads, and any other type of relationship model you can come up with. From all the relationships I have been in personally, observed in real life, and read about here and on other forums, it's become abundantly clear that the best relationships develop when you abandon your intent and just let life happen.
How incredibly true.
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Matt (Hubby) - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 13 years and father of our four children.
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My Blog
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  #180  
Old 11-08-2013, 12:15 PM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
It's important to understand the order of events. First, there were people who looked to "complete" their relationship with a very specific type of woman with virtually unattainable characteristics. Often, they disrespected the autonomy of the woman they're seeking. Who gets to decide that disrespecting someone's autonomy is deplorable? I do. And I'm in good company. So first these people were out there doing this thing. It was only when they reached a critical mass that other people went "Wow, this is really a 'thing.' Let's give them all a name so that we can refer to them more easily. They're looking for something imaginary. Unicorns are imaginary. Let's say they're hunting unicorns."

It simply wasn't the case that first there were these women out there looking for couples to date, and they were like "Hey you know who else likes to date couples? Unicorns. So I'm going to call myself a unicorn, because that means someone who likes to date couples." No. Unicorns are just horses with a magical pole sticking out of their forehead.
Perfect!

And, yes, you are in good company in judging disrespect for autonomy to be deplorable. I also agree that each of us is entitled to make such judgments, and that such judgments cannot be dismissed in the name of some easy relativism - "but I've thought about it for a long time, and it's what I waaaant!"

Sure - I keep holding myself back from saying to them - you can do what you want, but you are bound to acknowledge that others can make choices of their own, and you are bound to respect their freedom to make choices that don't align with your desires, even if - and I don't grant this at all -your desires are well considered.

As seems to be the case with others here, the language used by unicorn hunters makes my skin crawl. My pet peeve of the week is the locution "our special lady," which showed up yet again in a personal ad from yet another perfect couple seeking someone to complete them.

"Girl" is demeaning enough, but "lady" is especially loaded, culturally; both of them are quite distinct from "woman," which implies maturity, self-possession, independence . . . autonomy.

"Our" . . . don't even get me started. As if their "one true (other) love" is out there, destined to be with them, if only they could find her. As if she belongs to them, like "our" house or "our" car.

Then there's "special", the non-specific honorific, which somehow manages to be saccharine and bland at the same time. It may here serve to reinforce the cultural baggage of "lady" - a precious thing to be treasured and protected and - above all - owned.

Okay, now my skin is crawling and my gorge is rising. Time to think about other things!

Last edited by hyperskeptic; 11-08-2013 at 12:52 PM.
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