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  #701  
Old 11-07-2013, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
I wonder if some kind of "email friendship" wouldn't work better for you than an "in-person friendship." That way you could truly keep her at a distance, while still conversing with her and being friendly toward her.
I can handle that. All the face to face interaction, lunch dates, buddy-buddy stuff...no, I am great on that. E-mails and social media (Twitter, Instagram, etc.) are fine.

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I also wonder if during her first eight years with you, she wasn't perhaps really sincere about the poly dynamic, and maybe it was only from 2008 on that she started to develop her cowgirl mindset.
She was sincere about our poly dynamic up until late 2007. She dropped all of her partners at the tail end 2006. She wanted to close. I encouraged her to even seek a primary when she did that because I knew those were not shoes I could fill or even wanted to. Her transition to my co-primary did not happen until after I was pregnant in 2008. Up until that point, nothing changed. We kept doing what had been working for years. Instead of seeking someone else, all of her attention honed in on me.

I told her around September of 2007 that I was going to have my implant removed at the start of 2008 in the hopes of conceiving. (I conceived in March.) Shortly after I informed her that we would be expanding our family, she implemented her plan. He always thought her timing was suspicious. (Someone going from never wanting children and always maintaining that having a relationship with our future children was out to wanting to be part of appointments, my pregnancy, and wanting to be considered a co-parent. He questioned her back then.) I had babies on the brain, and my maternal desires took over rational thoughts. The transition process took the back burner because the pending arrival of my first child was more important than forcefully integrating her into my daily life.

I found out all of this during the last face to face interaction. Covered that interaction Here. She admitted that was when the thoughts started and when she started working towards the goal of getting rid of Matt. She explained it in great detail. It was a multiple step and year process, and she was committed to it. It was hard to listen to it.

So no, originally the cowgirl tendencies were not part of it. She had other romantic interests; mostly tertiary. She did have a primary at the start of our relationship. They gradually tapered off in 2000, and I became friends with her. All of her attention was not focused on me, our marriage, and our newly established family unit. Jealousy and envy ate her alive. She wanted what he/we had, and if meant bumping him out of the picture, so be it.

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In any case, your best move is to agree to the kind of friendship that *you'd* feel good about, that your *conscience* would feel good about. Forgiveness is great and friendship is fine, as long as it doesn't involve anyone getting sucked into anyone else's whirlpool. Don't befriend her out of a sense of guilt ("I caused her to become this desperate, clinging person"); instead, do it if and only if you *want* to, and feel sure no harm could come of it.
Strictly platonic and not in person is what would work for me. I am trying to remember that under all shitty judgement was a decent person. The person I originally loved and enjoyed having in my life.

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Everyone played a role in what went wrong post-2008. That's now all part of the past, fixed points in the timeline of history that can't be altered. Yes, the here and now is the *only* place where choices can be made, so choose something that will serve the here and now well.
It took a lot to forgive her. He has yet to forgive her, and I am not sure he ever will. It is not weighing his soul down, and he has moved on. I had to dig deep and remember that under all that rotten behaviour, there was some good in there. I have to figure out what it is that she could bring in to my life that I do not already have. If I pursue it from that angle, nothing but slight familiarity.

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I know that's awfully generalized prose, but it's meant to respect your freedom and judgment in making the choices that affect your life. I'm just an observer (albeit a friendly one).
Tis very much appreciated. As always.
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  #702  
Old 11-07-2013, 06:58 AM
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Sounds like electronic contact devices are your friends. That way you could maintain a strictly-platonic, not-in-person relationship.

Suppose I might be worried a tad by the question, Why the push by her to be friends? You mentioned that "slight familiarity" is probably all you'd get out of the deal. What would she get, or -- what would she be hoping to get?

I guess if you take up on her offer, do it electronically and "sleep with one eye open." Hopefully I'm being paranoid for nothing, but I've encountered enough fibbing (all sizes) in my day to be ever suspicious. Right now you need more info about what's currently making her tick.
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  #703  
Old 11-07-2013, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Sounds like electronic contact devices are your friends. That way you could maintain a strictly-platonic, not-in-person relationship.
I have to keep her at a safe distance, so electronic communication is the only way to go.

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Suppose I might be worried a tad by the question, Why the push by her to be friends? You mentioned that "slight familiarity" is probably all you'd get out of the deal. What would she get, or -- what would she be hoping to get?
Who she became is not the person I once loved and cared about, so it is some element of familiarity in that I once knew her and remember her being something and someone different. I would love to know what she stands to gain. I have some ideas.

Quote:
I guess if you take up on her offer, do it electronically and "sleep with one eye open." Hopefully I'm being paranoid for nothing, but I've encountered enough fibbing (all sizes) in my day to be ever suspicious. Right now you need more info about what's currently making her tick.
I am paranoid and suspicious, too. I swear she has a personality disorder. Saying all the right words, but the emotion behind them is empty. I think she lacks the ability to truly be empathetic or feel even an ounce of remorse. I believe she can feign empathy in social settings. Just enough to appear like a caring person, so it does not present any red flags. Her "apologies" are proof of that. I am more inclined to believe she blames him for marrying me and being in her way than feeling an ounce of regret about being a cowgirl or using my children.

I am not convinced that she believes what she did was wrong. Even if she is not over me, I cannot say she loves me. She is like a narcissist, and she needs me to supply that need. That is probably what she is after now. The past five years were here happiest years in our relationship to her because she was on that high. She got off on me putting her wants and needs before Matt's and believing that our marriage was inferior to the relationship I had with her. She got off on feeling like she was number one in my life. She was happy when he left me. In her mind, that meant all of the love and attention that was going to him was going to be showered on her. She had succeeded in getting rid of him. To hell with whoever got hurt, but she was happy. The catch is she got pissed when Matt came back, and she realised that things were going to change.

I definitely want to know why this interest in being "friends" with me has resurfaced. The last time I saw her, it was not rainbows and fairy floss. I wanted to slap the shit out of her. If she was truly sorry, surely she would know that it would take longer than two months for me to welcome her back with arms wide open. More like forever and the next lifetime, too.
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  #704  
Old 11-07-2013, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
I am not convinced that she believes what she did was wrong. Even if she is not over me, I cannot say she loves me. She is like a narcissist, and she needs me to supply that need. That is probably what she is after now. The past five years were here happiest years in our relationship to her because she was on that high. She got off on me putting her wants and needs before Matt's and believing that our marriage was inferior to the relationship I had with her. She got off on feeling like she was number one in my life. She was happy when he left me. In her mind, that meant all of the love and attention that was going to him was going to be showered on her. She had succeeded in getting rid of him. To hell with whoever got hurt, but she was happy. The catch is she got pissed when Matt came back, and she realised that things were going to change.
Sounds like someone to stay FAR FAR away from. Have this conversation with your best friend and get her opinion. She knows you both and can give you better advice than any of us here. Given you opinion above, I'd hazard a guess that this will NOT help to improve your relationship with Matt. If I were him, I'd have all the wall back up and be constantly on my guard.
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  #705  
Old 11-08-2013, 12:28 PM
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I was happy that we were off today. It was a relaxed day. We spend every Friday with our son. Matt and I had a breakfast launch to attend for 7 AM. We did not leave the house until 6:55. It was not my doing. Our friends were like, "Why were you and Matt late?" We answered at the same time, "Traffic." There was no traffic. Early morning loving is what happened. Never have sexy times early in the morning when you know you have somewhere to be. In the afterglow and when I was snuggled up to next him, he was like, "You know it is like 6:30, right?" From that point on, it was a mad dash.

On the way to the breakfast, we talked about my monthly hell. It is not late. It is just not quite on time. I am only three weeks late. Before he went out tonight, he went to Coles and bought me pregnancy tests. He handed me a bag and was like, "I think we need these." I am probably just late because it has been a stressful few weeks.

Our daughter got out of school at 12:30. He picked her up, and my son and I met them for lunch. We took them home, so they could take their afternoon naps. He asked if we could go somewhere and talk. Of course the topic was what is going on with my uterus. He asked if I had any symptoms recently. Nothing that cannot be attributed to travelling, different seasons and weather conditions, and stress. I am on the fence about finding out right now. I want to give it a few more days to see if my unwelcome visitor decides to visit. I said I wanted a happy ending for 2013.

We had counselling from 4-5:15, and as always, it was productive. Matt is opening up to her more and more. He is not guarded around her, and I think he realises he can trust her. She actually has our best interests at heart and is rooting for us. He actually talks and has opinions. He has also been opening up to me at home, and I love it. I actually feel like I know some of what crosses his mind. When he speaks, I listen to him like a song. She is impressed with our progress and how far we have come. I ran the friendship with Si thing by her, and I thought our she was going to explode. She asked for Matt's feelings on it, and he basically said he trusts me but he will never trust her because she is a reason to worry. She asked if he thinks a friendship with her is a healthy idea. He simply said no.

In a short synopsis, my ex is unhealthy for all of us. Her presence in my life alone could easily cause progress to regress. Matt might become guarded again, stop confiding in me, distance himself from me because of her, lose trust in my abilities, and start questioning how committed I am to staying on the straight and narrow. All bad in other words. Someone that determined to destroy our marriage is looking for an "in" to finish the job. She asked me what my intuition was telling me, and I told her it was telling me it was too risky and provides no benefits to my life. "I think your heart and mind are in agreement about what you should do."

In other news.

My best friend was NOT impressed, and she thinks befriending Si is a horrible idea.

Her e-mail said it best:

Quote:
WHY? How can you consider being friends with someone who was uncaring and blatantly disrespectful? You forgave her. Good. Go get your blessings and walk on past her. You had a good run. No need for syndication or reruns.

You think it's your fault? Stop it. Is it the chef or waitress's fault at Maestro's if I order one of everything on the menu and can't fit in my jeans? Is it the bartender's fault if I drink all the time and develop a beer gut? No, I have the choice to exhibit self-control. I may want everything on the menu, but I can't have it and accept it. She wanted you, couldn't have you, and wouldn't accept that. She had the choice to respect you, him, your commitment, and your family, but she didn't. Who needs a friend like that?

She's the reason she's getting screwed anally with no lube. She put herself in that position. Nobody told her to tamper with what God and fate put together. I don't feel bad for her because life is all about choices. When making selfish, foolish, and stupid choices, there are always going to be consequences.
I have doubts, so I am trusting myself on this. I am fine with keeping the peace, but letting her back in? No, thank you. My judgement was clouded by empathy and feeling bad for her. My empathy does not dismiss any of what happened. I am not sure we will ever be friends again. I think our time has passed and too much damage has been done to recover from it. I will continue to wish her well, but this is where our story ends.

We are happy, healthy, and doing something right for the first time in a long time. Back to reading threads. That wonderful husband of mine is out, and my children are sleeping.

Peace, quiet, Ghost Whisperer, and blooming tea.
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  #706  
Old 11-11-2013, 02:01 AM
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Happy Monday! The day is halfway over. Time is flying by.

I read something over the weekend, and when I tell you it yanked it my heart strings and made me mad simultaneously, you just do not know. I found myself wondering how my child would feel when I was reading remarks made by the teenager of poly parents. The little she described made me want to reach out, hug her, and bitch slap her parents. I am re-evaluating my beliefs surrounding poly and children. Maybe it is not as innocent and simple as them accepting what is presented. It could be like someone else said, they probably think it is normal, but what happens when pearl clutching people hear about it and give them the impression that it is not as normal? If they are like this girl, they start questioning it.

My child walked up to me and told me out of her own mouth that she was never supposed to have more than two parents. When I mentioned her and suggested that she spend time with her, the mood shifted. She had an epic meltdown one day, and she started speaking in another language. When she gets that upset and passionate about something, there is no reasoning with her. Imagine if I had kept driving the idea of accepting Si into some predetermined role that I wanted her to fit in. Imagine if she encountered one of those pearl clutching folks who made her feel uncomfortable and like poly was wrong. It was not going to end pretty. We dodged a bullet.

This girl is probably a good 10-12 years older than my baby, and the shit she described made me want to cry. She has been around poly longer than my baby was, so she has had time to see the ins and the outs. My baby has time to forget the experience. Are her parents that daft? Do they not realise that poly is not embraced with arms with open? Then again, she said they encountered their own set of problems. Surely they realised that flaunting--not hiding--their relationship style at a religious institution (the girl's school) would not be received and welcomed. Some parents thrive off gossip, and teenagers can be mean girls and little bitches.

My daughter goes to an Anglican school, and you know what? There is no way in hell Si would have ever stepped foot on the grounds of her school or been introduced as my girlfriend. That would have been one place that we would have been closeted. I am not going to do anything to make her life any harder.

I went through some hell when I came out. Until you have been referred to as your husband's first wife, like you were divorced or deceased, been referred to as his bubs' mother/surrogate, told that your girlfriend was not allowed in any of the family homes--including holiday homes, or had the unfortunate pleasure of someone saying, "I had no idea Matt was married," and you have been married for almost 12 years...you would never understand WTF that I have been through. That was only from one side of the family. I think walking through a storm of golf ball sized hail and getting pelted would have been more enjoyable.

Why would put my baby through any of that or anything similar? All that proves is, poly has a longgggg way to go before it is accepted. This means I need to shield my babies from the wrath that I incurred. I am not going to do anything to put them in the line of fire. If I was dating, what I read further proves why being closeted would be the only option. I would not even tell my children I was poly. Partners would never meet my children or be around them anyway. It is fine if people want to talk shit about adults, but if my duckies were put in positions to fight my wars and defend my choice of relationship structure, that is a problem. It has made me want to have a conversation with my daughter. I guess we can do that today during our mummy-n-princess block.

Other than the above thoughts, my weekend was really good. I was with my family the entire weekend.

Saturday: Two family walks; one in remembrance of babies who died from SIDS and the other for brain cancer research. We attended the final day of spring racing carnival, and our winning streak was on a high. We went to a Bohol fundraiser family day. We had dinner as a family. DH and I attended a cocktail party for the parents of premature babies. Very near and dear to our hearts because our son was premature. It was a feel good day.

Sunday: We attended two church services. DH and I took part in a 10k. Nanny J and our little duckies were at the finish line cheering us on. We enjoyed the weather at Albert Lake and took part in a family 5k. I cooked Sunday dinner. DH and I went to a show last night at a lounge in Fitzroy. The proceeds went to a positive cause.

It was a feel good weekend, and we were able to get our little duckies involved.

I am about to find something to eat. I am craving some cajun food. Gumbo would be great. A fried catfish po-boy with tartar sauce and honey mustard would be even better. I hope everyone is enjoying their morning, afternoon, or evening.
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Last edited by FullofLove1052; 11-11-2013 at 11:10 AM.
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  #707  
Old 11-11-2013, 07:21 PM
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As parents, we do have to be conscious of the world that surrounds our kids and act accordingly. If we are living outside the norm of the area where we live or our kids socialize, then it's up to us prepare them for the fact that, our lives are NOT what everyone else would consider normal. I've seen this happens more so with religion and some people will be self-righteous to the point of cruelty. On the flip side, it is also our job to inform our children that just because we are living what would be considered a "normal" life, others may not live the same way and that's okay. There are kids that DO have more than two parents, there are step-parents, grandparents acting as parents, adoptive parents, etc.

As for teenagers - lets face it as a parent, it doesn't take much to piss off and embarrass a teenager. You could be as inconspicuous as you like and some teenagers would still be embarrassed by their parents, especially girls.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
As parents, we do have to be conscious of the world that surrounds our kids and act accordingly.
Most definitely.

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If we are living outside the norm of the area where we live or our kids socialize, then it's up to us prepare them for the fact that, our lives are NOT what everyone else would consider normal. I've seen this happens more so with religion and some people will be self-righteous to the point of cruelty.
Indeed.

I often say that people in the church tend to be the biggest hypocrites. It is a shame when self-righteous behaviour evolves into cruelty. I have seen it with so-called "Christians" more than just random people. Fake ass Christians.

Quote:
On the flip side, it is also our job to inform our children that just because we are living what would be considered a "normal" life, others may not live the same way and that's okay.
Tis true, but what would happen if my child encounters foolishness and ignorance like I did behind my decision to be a polyamorist? I am fast forwarding and wondering, if I start dating again, "What would I tell my daughter if she had to defend my polyamorist tendencies due to being ostracized?" I would be bloody daft to think it would be seamless and flawless for her. It was not that for me, and I remember what it was like to be a teenager. Some of my former schoolmates were bitches, and they made life hard for people who were different. Be it different because their families were not "old money." Be it because they were lesbians and gay. Be it because they were goth, had piercings, or a lot of tattoos. I am sure that still happens today. I just know I would not want to be the cause of my child getting bullied. I am supposed to stand up for her. Not the other way around.

Quote:
There are kids that DO have more than two parents, there are step-parents, grandparents acting as parents, adoptive parents, etc.
My daughter knows about same-sex parents, adoptive parents, single parents, stepparents, but in her mind, she was never supposed to have more than two. As a gifted child, she was caught up in the biological aspect, and she could not shake the fact that biologically, it was not feasible. She is wise beyond her years.

Quote:
As for teenagers - lets face it as a parent, it doesn't take much to piss off and embarrass a teenager. You could be as inconspicuous as you like and some teenagers would still be embarrassed by their parents, especially girls.
Tis true for the most part. Some parents do the absolutely most, though. They set out to embarrass their children. I hope I do not ever do that. I am ripping a page out of my parents book on parenting during my childrens' teen years.
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  #709  
Old 11-12-2013, 05:27 AM
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I like that you're putting heavy thought into what's best for your kids, and realizing that a stable loving monogamous marriage will do them wonders both at home and at school. Carry on and never ever let Si or anyone else get in the way of the positive direction your family is headed.

Regards always,
Kevin T.
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  #710  
Old 11-12-2013, 04:10 PM
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Hi Ry,

Thanks for the link. It was a very interesting article and the comments by Jadye were stunning....so much so that for me they over shadowed the article and go to the many threads on how kids handle poly or "coming out" to the family and the community

http://www.mommyish.com/2013/11/08/p...-kids-and-sex/



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Jayde CMJ
3 days ago

My parentals think everything is blissfully perfect because THEY are happy. In their eyes, I'm just a moody, hormonal teenager, with a bad attitude, so to them, I don't need therapy. I'd be doing it as a way to seek attention. They'll never accept that they're the reason for my attitude change. I've walked down that fork in the road a hundred times over the past couple of years. They're just short of telling me that I'll grow out of these feelings and will accept this one day. I'm a "child," so my feelings aren't valid on grown-up matters. They know what is best, so why do I need a voice, huh?


xxxxx




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Jayde ElleJai
2 days ago

Hi. It's deeper than their need to be out. They wanted their girlfriend to be recognized and respected as my third parent. They keep pushing that on me. When I push back, they make me feel like I'm a bad seed. They don't want her to feel like a dirty secret and promote equality.

Recently I was on the homecoming court. The parentals were going to talk to the administrators to get her added to my list of my escorts during halftime. I told them no because for one night I wanted to be normal and share the moment with my mom and dad. I was ok with her supporting from the stands. They told me I was being inconsiderate of HER feelings because I didn't want to share that moment with her and didn't consider her my parent. She isn't a parent to me so I saw like no reason for her to be introduced as one. They were determined to make my moment about validating her and showing the world that three parents and polyamory isn't harmful to kids. Nevermind that I didn't want it. They did and that's all that mattered.

There's so many flaws I can talk about. Let's talk about how I've lost friends. Let's talk about all the partners and how much it hurts when they leave my life. Let's talk about how they'd miss school functions because of dates and sleepovers. Don't get me started. I've seen and been thru too much behind them. My dislike has been a long time coming.



This is just a few of this girls comments. I suggest newbies with kids read this girls comments.
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