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  #31  
Old 11-01-2013, 05:57 AM
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Oh. How come she feels like she's made a mess of things? Here I was thinking we were making a bit of progress.

I see your relationship with her is deepening and your connection with her is growing ever stronger. I hope circumstances will come together to help aid that process.

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"She did tell me that she was going to ask him again and when she told me that I said, 'I really want for you to stay over sometimes but I have let go of it. If you can great, if not that's fine too.' See, after last week with the whole swinging issue, I realized that I need to be able to let her go. I'd rather not but saw it as a distinct possibility."
Gosh, we're not talking about a conceivable break-up here are we? That would be depressing.

Well, let's see what happens. For what it's worth, I'll keep my fingers crossed regarding your trial sleepover and that her husband will come out okay on the other side.

Regards,
Kevin T.
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  #32  
Old 11-02-2013, 06:08 PM
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Oh. How come she feels like she's made a mess of things? Here I was thinking we were making a bit of progress.

Gosh, we're not talking about a conceivable break-up here are we? That would be depressing.

Well, let's see what happens. For what it's worth, I'll keep my fingers crossed regarding your trial sleepover and that her husband will come out okay on the other side.
I think the mess of things that she was referring to was that he had the idea she wanted to stay over with me just occasionally and when she said two or three times a week, it took him by surprise. He told her something like that they would have to get a bigger house with an extra room for me. She told me, "He's been reading too many of those CNN articles on polyamory". I think that when she told me that she had "made a mess of things" all she meant was that it had become more complicated but not in a bad way.

One, he communicated his acceptance of our relationship. The "trial" aspect of our first overnight is because they have not come to an agreement on how frequently she will stay over. Remember, I asked for every other night but, I have to ask myself a little more seriously now how often I really would want her to sleep over. Regularly for sure. This overnight was nice and likely propelled us a lot further along our uncharted journey. So, we all have to come to an agreement. Or rather we have to discover what will work.

Two, he is envisioning a future with me in it too by reading polyamory articles and talking about a bigger house which by the way is not something I'm looking for. I just want a girlfriend. I think that's all I want. And I'm talking about a girlfriend to love not "just a girlfriend". This is all just a bunch of words and often hard to convey the truth of what's going on. It's real though. Real people with real feelings and touching something beautiful. Whatever I write, there is that behind it. It's hard to convey so back to the details.

Kevin, you have to read me a little deeper. No, there is no conceivable break up. Well, I can conceive of it. From the first time that I was ever with her, I told her that I would let her go if having me in her life made her life too complicated. I meant what I said then but actually didn't come to terms within myself of truly being able to let her go until I wrote about it the other day. Still not being clear here... I'm talking about the kind of release implied in the quote, "if you love something let it go. If it comes back to you it's yours". The example being that when I told her again the other day that I would let her go, the result was our first night together. Letting go is not breaking up.

Last edited by pcflvly; 11-03-2013 at 12:00 AM.
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  #33  
Old 11-03-2013, 01:51 AM
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We're all three meeting at the wine bar later. I'm nervous, not incredibly so because I realize that there are benefits in getting to know him better. This was his part of the agreement but when it came right down to it, no plans were made. I had checked in with her a couple times during the day and each time she said that he had not mentioned it and that she didn't plan to bring it up.

That didn't sit very well with me. The agreement was that she could stay overnight with me if we all three went out together tonight. I was counting on it and had to psych myself up even. Finally I told her, "Ultimately, nobody wants to do this. The idea of it is uncomfortable but in fact, when we all get together and sip a drink it will be friends hanging out having a drink. Having fun. You want me too so we just have to face this and have fun." She agreed and we're all going out later as planned. I hope it's not too awkward for anyone but we need to do this. We agreed. It's no big deal, her husband is kind, I'm kind and we are all entangled.
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  #34  
Old 11-03-2013, 04:23 AM
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Sounds like you aren't necessarily intent on moving in, but you do want a close emotional relationship with a "real girlfriend." On the other hand, her husband is thinking a bigger house is needed so you can move in ... perhaps because he read some where that poly families do it that way?

So, letting her go is a state of mind? detaching yourself from a specific outcome? letting it be what it needs to be? that type of thing?

Sounds like not everything about your wine bar plans has been confirmed. Hope he'll keep his word, and that the three of you will be relatively relaxed in each other's company.

Keep the communication going as much as possible.
Regards,
Kevin T.
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  #35  
Old 11-04-2013, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post

Sounds like not everything about your wine bar plans has been confirmed. Hope he'll keep his word, and that the three of you will be relatively relaxed in each other's company.

Keep the communication going as much as possible.
Communication is hard in our situation. Her and I talk about things and him and her talk about things but she is the only avenue of communication between me and him. So it was good to meet again. We had a few drinks, one uncomfortable silence, several words of heartfelt communication, and all culminating in a feeling of understanding and acceptance.

I held her hand or touched her leg the entire evening. He never touched her nor did she touch him. There was no distance between them but the dynamic was mellow unlike our attraction for each other. Yeah, it's the dynamics that intrigue me. Out of respect, I'm not going to describe too much what he was like. It's safe to say that the dynamic was all about the difference between NRE feelings and LTR feelings. He wants the NRE feelings too. He's a bit jealous of that.

All in all it was good and the results are fantastic. We already have our next night on the town and overnight planned.
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  #36  
Old 11-04-2013, 06:48 AM
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Sounds like a good idea; keep those plans coming.

Do he and she often go out together on special dates, just the two of them? If not, it might be step in the right direction of warming things up between them (though I can't guarantee NRE levels).

You and he will probably get more chances to talk face-to-face as times goes on, which will no doubt help communication matters a lot. But even go-between talk with her in the middle is a start.

Keep on truckin', we're pullin' for ya here.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #37  
Old 11-05-2013, 05:30 PM
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Do he and she often go out together on special dates, just the two of them? If not, it might be step in the right direction of warming things up between them (though I can't guarantee NRE levels).

It sure is heating up. She came over to visit for two hours before her meditation class and stayed for five hours. Unlike any of her other visits, this time she had her phone off, claimed it was discharged, and didn't plug it in. It wasn't easy for her to leave nor was I inclined to hurry her along. I just wanted to keep her all night but she finally did go only to report that she passed him driving around to find her.

I don't know if she has ever before experienced the continuous intense mutual attraction that we share. I don't think so. It seems to be causing problems with her husband too. He wants reassurance but he employs terrible strategies to get it. He needs to just let her alone and act like it's not bothering him. Anything else he does is just driving her away. She doesn't want to leave him. That's not in the picture but he is making her uncomfortable which undeniably adds more distance.
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  #38  
Old 11-06-2013, 04:44 AM
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Well how did she and he come to be married in the first place, "if that spark wasn't there?" Just just enjoyed doing shared hobbies together, or they felt they were a good match, or they felt *something* and that was enough?

They need to start dating. Yes, they're married, and I still think they need to start dating again (on a regular basis). If they're already doing that, then it might be time to look for a poly-friendly couples counselor. There should be way for him to communicate his fears/worries/insecurities/whatever to her without making things worse. Solving that problem might take a professional.

In addition to dating, they should be sitting down once a week for a heart-to-heart chat about what's going on. There are strategies for making this chat successful, but for starters, it's just something that needs to start appearing on the calendar.

The last thing you need is for him to develop a ball of fear/resentment that he holds inside even while it grows and grows. Stuff like that can't be held inside forever.
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  #39  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:56 AM
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Well how did she and he come to be married in the first place, "if that spark wasn't there?" Just just enjoyed doing shared hobbies together, or they felt they were a good match, or they felt *something* and that was enough?

The last thing you need is for him to develop a ball of fear/resentment that he holds inside even while it grows and grows. Stuff like that can't be held inside forever.
You're funny Kevin but unless she's feeding me a lot of bull, that's exactly how they got together, they felt they were a good match. She says that it's always been nice to be with him but never all consuming. She said that when they met twenty years ago, she needed somebody who could calm her down and he's always been good at keeping her calm. That was his forte. So she's had a fire in her all this time and I'm the lucky guy around when she was ready to light it. And no, he doesn't have the spark that ignites that fire. He's an introvert. Seriously, he went to trivia night at the introvert club tonight. She called that progress and said that she has been trying for years to get him to do anything independently outside of the house. I don't think that it's as bad as it appeared.
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  #40  
Old 11-07-2013, 06:28 AM
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She's probably used to him "not talking" (being an introvert) but he has to start learning the skills of calm, considerate, effective communication. It can only be done through practice (including making many mistakes during the learning process).

She needed only him when she first married him, but now she needs him and you. This is the change that he was never ready for. I'm guessing he knows how to share sexually but not emotionally. Still think a poly-friendly counselor might be something to look into.
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