Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 11-06-2013, 04:36 PM
PolyinPractice PolyinPractice is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 519
Default Misconceptions

I have no problem with triads/quads/etc. Find them to be the most stable relationship structure, even more so than monogamy (I know four is supposed to be the "most" stable number, at least in numerology, not sure where it comes from, really). So a quad would be the most stable? Maybe? Not important.

I do think that so many couples do group relationships very poorly, which makes it all the more frustrating for those of us who very much consider the needs of all involved.
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 11-06-2013, 05:23 PM
Dagferi's Avatar
Dagferi Dagferi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,247
Default

People assume triad is the only configuration for a polyamorus relationship because that is all that gets exposure in the media. The showtime show has just reinforced that stereotype.

When people find out my true relationship status one of the first things people assume is we must all sleep together. Do everything together and are quite shocked that nothing of the sort happens. They assume my life is full of drama and etc. They seem disappointed when they find out otherwise. I have a rather boring life. I divide my life equally between two homes. I cook, clean, and make household decisions in both.

I don't have a problem with triads. I have a problem with people trying to force anyone into a box to meet their needs at the expense of the other persons needs. Couples looking for their third seem especially guilty.
__________________
40 yo straight female
Married in the eyes of the government to Butch since 2001...
Murf my monogamous second husband has been with me since May of 2012.
In a V relationship with an average 50/50 split of time between my two husbands.
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 11-06-2013, 05:54 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern US...
Posts: 182
Default

Being in something that's starting to look like a triad (three couples within a group of 3 people...) and also part of what I call an N (long distance relationship with a married woman), I suppose I could talk about either side of this conversation.

So far, the replies here say "I have nothing against triads," which I believe. At the same time, in the contentious/closed threads, people who write in talking about their personal circumstances (say, starting married and perhaps opening things up in small steps, or enjoying being with couples because they like the dynamic of joining something established) and get pounced on with questions that others seem to not get asked. Have you thought of THIS, have you considered THAT, and so on. Many of the questions imply that the member of the couple or the person joining a couple is a dumb-ass, or self-centered, or rude to the others in the relationship, or lacking in the wisdom that is this forum. Which may be true. Yeah, people opening up don't know what people who have lived this way for a while know. But the pouncing is what looks different.

But I don't want to make too big a deal of it. Someone just posted about the distinction between family-style and hub-and-spoke style poly, and the critiques that both sides get. Maybe it's just that more family-style attempts at triad life are showing up here, and people don't typically write in or seek advice when they're looking for a V? Or Z/N/longer chain? I don't know.

Whatever the case may be, I know that it's been really helpful to have people's perspectives from when their relationships have worked - no matter what kinds of relationships they have! I come here to celebrate success and learn from it, and I don't care if that's about triads or not.

Don't know if this response helps, but those are my thoughts on the issue, for now.
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 11-06-2013, 05:55 PM
Natja's Avatar
Natja Natja is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 839
Default

And the terminology they use just bugs me, it all seems so very....objectifying.

"Looking for our third/ our girl/our special Unicorn" To share/enjoy/add to our relationship/marriage. Sometimes it is cringeworthy....at least it is to me and then I have to stand back and realise....wait...most of these people have not been exposed to the same amount of stuff I have. To them it is entirely new, entirely reasonable and in some cases hot, sexy and/or romantic...

Like the couple who were 'Looking for their "Other half" No need to mention the Math Fail there.....

Or the handful or so of single men who turn up both here and other places looking for two bisexual women specifically..... It is so pervasive because it is supposed to be so fulfilling but most of those people have never done it.

And out of those who have, it is almost entirely the OR (original couple) who want to give it another go...because the first Unicorn was "not right for us" but the next one will be perfect. Because, of course it just needs to be the "right people" and we know what we are doing, we have thought of all the variables and we know it will be hard but we are in no rush to find exactly what we want.....

It is so..repetitive.
I don't blame Showtime because, let's face it, this was a problem before that show came about, it is Porn. The threesome in porn is such a staple, especially the FMF threesome, with all eyes focused on penis at the end...why else the single men looking for it if not for this pornified ideal? It's not like there is a bisexual wife to satisfy is there?
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 11-06-2013, 06:00 PM
LoveBunny LoveBunny is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Florida Keys
Posts: 366
Default

I think the reason the male-female couple with a bisexual gf thing is the most, I don't know, socially acceptable? triad formation is because, sadly, the world is dominated by hetero men. In the gaze of the Old White Male, it's ok for a female to sleep with another female but not another male, its ok for a woman to be bi, but not a man.

Sometimes the couple/gf triad occurs organically,and sometimes, yes, people seek it out. A couple seeking a girlfriend is no less ridiculous than a single woman with kids seeking out a single man of a certain age and income bracket who will love her kids and has qualities like good sense of humor and must love dogs...Will she get exactly that guy, and even if she does, will he be the right guy for her? Who knows. They say the universe gives us what we need, not what we want. Relationships take on a life of their own, and those couple/gf triads either fall apart or evolve, just like any relationship, monogamous or non-monogamous.

But why wouldn't people on this forum, especially those who have gone through it on one side or the other, not want to help these people in this situation? No one gets frustrated dealing with the same issues over and over again from mono partners dealing with jealousy for their poly partners, or people trying to move from cheating to polyamory. Why not show the couple/gf triads the same empathy and compassion? They're at a place in their journey.

As for the labels, they bug me. "Unicorn hunters" and "swingers" are looked down on, who gets to decide this? I remember when I first came on the boards, I described the woman I was sleeping with outside of my marriage as my "mistress. " People on the board promptly "corrected" me. "She's your girlfriend," (well, no, she wanted no responsibility or attachment.) "Call her your paramour." (What is this, Versailles circa 1809?)

We all come here because we want relationship advice for the kind of relationships we likely didn't ever see growing up. We are all trying to figure out how to make this work for us, and have more love/sex/passion/companionship in our lives. Let's embrace the full spectrum of that.
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 11-06-2013, 06:14 PM
london london is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: UK - land of the free
Posts: 1,635
Default

The thing that really, truly makes me feel sick is when a straight woman is trying to make herself bi and force herself to feel sexually and romantically towards a woman.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 11-06-2013, 06:19 PM
Dagferi's Avatar
Dagferi Dagferi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,247
Default

LB... People with all sorts of configurations get called on their shit all the time.

Gorgeouskitten got called on the the carpet on her jealousy at the prospect that her ND wanted to date someone else.

I have been called on the carpet about an issue with my husband Butch and his getting involved with a couple.

There are many many more if you look.

I have a problem with anyone applying rules to someone rises relationships without the effected party getting a say. For an example a wife or husband saying no overnights with the gf or bf or you can only spend x amount of time with so and so cause I say so. I call these people on issues too.
__________________
40 yo straight female
Married in the eyes of the government to Butch since 2001...
Murf my monogamous second husband has been with me since May of 2012.
In a V relationship with an average 50/50 split of time between my two husbands.
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 11-06-2013, 06:24 PM
Dagferi's Avatar
Dagferi Dagferi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
The thing that really, truly makes me feel sick is when a straight woman is trying to make herself bi and force herself to feel sexually and romantically towards a woman.
All to fulfill their husbands "dream".

I wonder how many triads we have lurking here on the boards are beyond the NEW point and still going strong?
__________________
40 yo straight female
Married in the eyes of the government to Butch since 2001...
Murf my monogamous second husband has been with me since May of 2012.
In a V relationship with an average 50/50 split of time between my two husbands.
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 11-06-2013, 06:26 PM
YouAreHere's Avatar
YouAreHere YouAreHere is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SoNH
Posts: 1,066
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
I don't blame Showtime because, let's face it, this was a problem before that show came about, it is Porn. The threesome in porn is such a staple, especially the FMF threesome
Good point, although if all Showtime is doing is following porn's lead, then I still see it as more of a titillator than a normalizer, and it still makes me work harder at undoing perceptions of my relationship rather than letting me explain what it is. That's why I just say that P's "non-exclusive with two committed long-term relationships" - lotsa words, but pretty much to the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveBunny View Post
We all come here because we want relationship advice for the kind of relationships we likely didn't ever see growing up. We are all trying to figure out how to make this work for us, and have more love/sex/passion/companionship in our lives. Let's embrace the full spectrum of that.
This is true. I came here, as someone who isn't Poly, simply because it was one of the only places I could talk about this stuff without immediately getting judged as a victim, or having my relationship be looked at as casual or disrespectful.

However, what I tend to see when the couples come on the board (usually) is first a gentle poke about "have you thought about this stuff" and a link to the unicorn hunter or couple privilege articles. It doesn't usually seem to get heated unless the original posters come back with, "Well, that's not us - here's why it's not us <lists several reasons that indicate that it is, in fact, them>." Or if someone else starts arguing in the thread on behalf of the OP, which tends to happen from time to time.

The self-proclaimed unicorns seem to regularly get flak for using the term. I personally have no feelings on it either way - if they realize it can be a pejorative term, and they still identify with what it represents, it's okay by me if they call themselves that. In the thread that was closed, the OP even stated that she fully expected couple privilege and didn't expect equality at all.

If the "unicorn" is fully informed and consents to all this, then I see this as no different than a negotiated D/s relationship. It's not for me, but I respect others' decisions to enjoy that in their relationships.

It's when the person is uninformed or doesn't fully consent that they run into trouble. In both cases.

Maybe the folks poking a bit hard at the "unicorns" are trying to make sure they're truly informed and understand all this, and I think that's a good thing. But at what point do you back off and say, "Okay - have at it then"?

No answers here, just questions. Thanks for creating a thread where we can discuss it without having to tie it to someone's particular situation, Mags.
__________________
Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids (DanceGirl, 14; and PokéGirl, 11), two cats, one house, many projects.
Chops: My partner. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
Slightly more polished blog with a mono/poly focus: From Baltic to Boardwalk
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 11-06-2013, 06:27 PM
Natja's Avatar
Natja Natja is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveBunny View Post
I A couple seeking a girlfriend is no less ridiculous than a single woman with kids seeking out a single man of a certain age and income bracket
People will criticise a woman for her shallowness just as much as Unicorn hunters, maybe even worse....I recall a thread on a Kinky forum when a flame war occurred after a woman said she had no desire for a short Dom...drama!!!!!

Imagine a thread starter like.....I'm single, but I only want a rich man.

That wouldn't be ignored either, People get annoyed when we see others create boxes and expect others to fill it leaving no room for variation.

I spent ages talking to a married man the other day before he said "but as my wife is bi, so she needs to be considered" "and what has that got to do with anything"? I ask...."because the women will be sleeping together..."
"but why do you have that expectation"? (bear in mind there was nothing about this on the profile).

"It's not an expectation, it is a requirement, we come as a package deal"
.................
Yes, it is frustrating.
Quote:

and those couple/gf triads either fall apart or evolve, just like any relationship, monogamous or non-monogamous.
It wouldn't be so bad if there were not a trail of often homeless, broken hearted Unicorns left in its wake because she dared to not live up to the 'love us both equally' expectation.....just sayin.

Quote:
But why wouldn't people on this forum, especially those who have gone through it on one side or the other, not want to help these people in this situation?
People do try to help, often and also try to help them avoid not getting into these situations in the first place.

Quote:

(What is this, Versailles circa 1809?)
psst...French Revolution.....*whistles*
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
adding a partner, attitude, expectations, love, one penis policy, opp, polyamory, polyfidelity, triad, truth, unicorn, unicorn definition, unicorn hunters, unicorn hunting, unicorns

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:16 AM.