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  #11  
Old 03-18-2010, 02:59 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
It sounds like he was supporting his kids and their mother but could neither file jointly as a (common-law) married couple nor claim his partner as a tax deduction.

Correct me if I'm wrong about that, GS.
Yep - you got it Ygirl. Nor even claim the children ! Even though we lived full time together - same legal address etc.
I don't believe that's changed yet either but can't be certain. We chose to cave and get married - although that wasn't the ONLY reason. At that time, and in that place (conservative area) we felt it unfair to risk exposing the kids when they started school to the "bastard" label.
But to us - it was never anything more than a legal contract for mutual benefit. We don't even have the marriage certificate, don't remember the date (or celebrate it). We celebrate the day we started living together. And in our case, we have a verbal agreement that were we ever to go separate ways we would be as fair as humanly possible about the whole deal. But if we knew then what we know now, we probably would have drawn up some prenup and felt that much better about the whole thing. Because you never know what can happen once emotions become involved - or money. As down to earth people as we are - people are people.
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2010, 03:12 PM
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jackrabbit jackrabbit is offline
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Yep, that's basically the impetus for the thread. No matter what you think and feel now, or how strongly you think and feel it, it may not be what you think and feel in the future. So everyone should at least accept the possibility.
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2010, 03:24 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
Yep - you got it Ygirl. Nor even claim the children ! Even though we lived full time together - same legal address etc.
This I do not understand. Did you not have yourself put on their birth certificate as their father? Then I can see why... But if you did declare paternity on the birth certificates AND no one else was claiming them as dependents, then I would have to say that you got some erroneous advice from somewhere - either a lawyer, or the tax-preparer, or from some cubicle-clerk at the IRS.
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Old 03-19-2010, 08:18 PM
saudade saudade is offline
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It seems to me like the most reasonable defense against an adultery charge for a couple entering a legal marriage in the US is to have a prenup that clearly delimits how to parsel joint resources back out in the event of a divorce. IMO, marrying couples of any lovestyle with any real funds to speak of need to get a prenup, just so that both sides have to have a conversation about how they both feel about the money they have, and to keep their expectations together.

None of that protects children in a divorce where poly is involved in the US (and I suspect in many other places). According to the Wiki prenup page:
Quote:
Prenuptial agreements in all U.S. states are not allowed to regulate issues relating to the children of the marriage, in particular, custody and access issues.[citation needed] The reason behind this is that matters involving children must be decided in the children's best interests.
Of course, nothing but a good lawyer and a sensible judge seems to protect poly parents when their fitness to parent becomes a legal question.

At the end of the day, I have to agree with SchrodingersCat:
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Don't marry the sort of person who's likely to stab you in the back if things don't work out.
Go in with your eyes open, and make all the necessary arrangements (including your wills), and then surround yourself with people who will respect the agreements you've made, legal or no.

@jackrabbit, I'm getting the sense you're curious about this topic academically... Am I off the mark? (Sorry for prying, but it's hard to give advice at a theoretical level sometimes.)
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2010, 08:25 PM
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Sure, it's just academic. I personally have no interest in getting married to anyone at all. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2010, 10:38 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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GS: Under those tax restrictions, I can definitely see why the "legal contract" form of marriage would make a lot of sense. And what I like about how you've presented it is that it's exactly that. As opposed to a lot of couples who get married for financial reasons, and then proceed as though the marriage itself has given them some kind of skills or status that will somehow protect them, so they don't have to work on their relationship continually... then they're astonished when the love disappears and they want a divorce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saudade View Post
IMO, marrying couples of any lovestyle with any real funds to speak of need to get a prenup, just so that both sides have to have a conversation about how they both feel about the money they have, and to keep their expectations together.
I can see this point as a "legislative" argument to force couples to have prenups... I've read that money is the #1 thing couples argue about.

In that sense, I'm somewhat a fan of some of the churches which make their members take marriage courses before allowing them to wed. I'm not normally a fan of churches, but that's one thing that makes some sense.

So ironically, my stance is that "I don't want a prenup for my relationship, but I believe it would be good to legislatively require them." Because if it was required, then I wouldn't feel like doing such a thing meant I didn't believe in my relationship (which is how I feel). We had those talks [about finances and kids and future career plans etc] of our own volition. People definitely should be having those important conversations before making such a commitment, and if it takes a law to make them do it, then so be it.
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2010, 11:34 PM
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vandalin vandalin is offline
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Quote:
In that sense, I'm somewhat a fan of some of the churches which make their members take marriage courses before allowing them to wed. I'm not normally a fan of churches, but that's one thing that makes some sense.
I don't know if Minnesota is the only state that does this, but we get a huge discount on our marriage license if we do take some kind of marriage course. This can be through a church or through a trained professional. Our officiant is a good friend of ours and although a church person herself, she knew and understands that Cajun and I are not so she tailored not only the "classes" but also her part of the ceremony to fit with our beliefs. So these marriage classes don't have to be religious and filled with doctrine, and I agree, they should be required for practical reasons (also parenting classes).
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