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  #11  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:00 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Originally Posted by Drummerboy74 View Post
Well, we recently met this 23 year old guy that lives about an hour away from us. He is not out yet, has a good new job, he is very cute, and he had only been with one guy before meeting my hubby and I. He had every opportunity to meet people, but had never gone through with it. He wanted to meet us because we actually had a conversation with him instead of the "you looking??" responses you get from a lot of the guys online (which is how we met). Also, he found us both very attractive, and got a good vibe from us.

We've since had this guy over 3 out of the past 5 weekends, and again in a couple of weeks. We've gone out to sports bars, had beers, took our small boat out, went hiking -- all together. Laying in bed with these two handsome guys is unbelievably hot to me. We've had some pretty passionate sex together, to be honest. There is something about the dynamic of the 3 of us that is really exciting to me. I love hanging out as a trio, I love seeing my hubby interacting with him, and the goofing around between the 3 of us. I know there is an age difference here, but it truly doesn't seem like it when we hang out - in any way. He's a mature 23 (or we are an immature 39/37). Ha. And I know he likes us, and loves hanging out with us. It just kinda clicks well.

All of this (finally) brings me to my question. Is this normal?? I know my hubby has really little to no interest in having a "boyfriend". He's called our new friend more of a "friend with benefits" kind of relationship. He has a much easier time with keeping sex and emotions separate than I do, anyways. He doesn't want to lead this guy on at all, and I know that this young man is really new to this whole thing anyways. But the thought of the 3 of us together, even once in a while, is very exciting to me. I think I've come to realize after hanging out with our new friend that I wasn't necessarily looking for random hookups when we played with a third, but a potential "boyfriend" of sorts -- or some one person that we could have a sort of relationship with
Congrats! You are a very normal gay man! And so is your husband and your FWB (for lack of a better term). It is quite common for committed gay men to have some sort of an open relationship - NSA sex, FWBs, - some configuration of ethical non-monogamy. There are studies about this out there somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Here in poly land, where we can be male, female, trans, poly, mono partnered with a poly, bi, gay, straight, pansexual, we usually call having casual NSA sex "swinging." In that configuration, steps are taken to NOT become emotionally attached, and love is a bad word.
I have to disagree with Mags here. I don't consider all casual, FWB, NSA etc. sex to be swinging. I don't consider all sex where an emotional component is not wanted to be swinging. Open relationships, swinging, casual sex, NSA, FWB can all be subsets of ethical non-monogamy. Swinging to me is more of a subculture of ethical non-monogamy, one that often does emphasize physical and friendly connections over emotional and romantic connections. But there are many swingers who only swing with others that they have developed an intimate connection with. For me, the line between swinging and poly is a fine one - they can shade into each other. Many poly folks are not into casual connections at all but some are. Some swing as well as having multiple romantic relationships. Also swinging tends to be rather hetero-centric, if not outright homophobic. I hear this is slowly changing. But not all poly folks think of casual sex and swinging as the same.

That said, I think Mags has a point - and others who have commented too - is that there is a potential mismatch or difference between what you may want - a romantic triad with three men or some variation of poly where love and romance are part of the relationship, and your husband who seems to prefer a more casual sex, open relationship model where love and commitment to outside partners is not allowed. Your expectations and dreams regarding outside partners may be very different. It is definitely time to start a conversation with your husband not in particular about this young man but about what you may want down the line. Is he ok with outside committed relationships? Do both of you need to be involved with a third man? (Triads are the hardest relationship structure to form and maintain - tag search 'triads' 'unicorn' 'third' 'couple privilege' and similar words here to learn more about triads and get a sense of the pitfalls.) What about each of you being involved with another (that's called a 'V')? If falling in love happens, how to handle it? On this forum, we see a LOT of pain and drama caused by people who expect their partners to walk away from a lover. Personally, I believe it is best to remain more on the casual side of things than inflict that kind of damage on all involved.

It is difficult to control who falls in love with who, especially if there is cuddling, going out on activities together, getting to know each other. That is indeed a recipe for falling in love. It's generally not possible to control feelings. We feel what we feel.

There is lots to mull over here. Lots to learn and sort out what you and he (and maybe the younger man too) believe and where you want to go. This is not a conversation that will wrap up quickly. It could take years. But now is a good time to start it with your husband, regardless of how things shake out with the young man.

But... it is probably a bit early to start this kind of conversation with the younger man. It is early days yet. And he sounds relatively new to being out, being gay, having gay connections, etc. If things progress emotionally? Well, then yes, conversations with all three of you would be necessary. But if he is ok with being the occasional third in your marital bed? I would hold off until you and your husband have begun talking.
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  #12  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:18 PM
Drummerboy74 Drummerboy74 is offline
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All of these points are very valid. Makes sense. To answer one question though - there would be no relationship other than with BOTH my hubby and I together. It would be a triad of sorts, if it were to ever go anywhere (not a V type relationship). No emotional relationship for either of us separately outside our marriage. That is something I know we would both agree on. And I agree that it is way too early to speak with this young man about any of this. My hubby and I would def talk first.
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  #13  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:21 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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Quote:
The thing that is really stopping me from asking these questions to both of them (especially my hubby) is that I think it may be too early for it.
You already have shared sex with the man.

You are now confused as to how to proceed because you find you have soft loving feelings toward him.

So you are NOT going to have conversation with DH and with BF person to clarify because it is "too early" to ask what each of you expects from this relationship?

That seems like you talking yourself out of doing what needs to be done to me.

I would have had that conversation before sharing sex and opening the marriage. To me this is catching up conversation that could have been had before.

But that's me. *shrug*

Quote:
I also feel that I'd be convincing my hubby to give this a try, when I know that it isn't what he wants. Obviously, there's an issue there.
WHEN did you ask your husband to consider his willingness for polyshipping with this man? So you KNOW for a fact that he's not willing because he said "NO."

You seem to dance around answering that point blank. Did you or did not not actually ask your husband?

Could you be not wanting to actually ask at this time because you fear his response is going to be "No, thank you. I'm not willing for more than casual sex fun." And then your DH may no longer even want to hang out with your crush much less share sex because now he knows you have love feelings toward the crush?

I'm wondering if that is a reason for your reticence / avoiding.

Quote:
My best bet at the point is to prob just see how it goes from here on out, naturally and organically. Thoughts?
If that is what you prefer, so be it.

But I disagree. I think your best bet is having this conversation with DH and with BF person each in turn AND all 3 in the same room. So you all know where you stand what each one wants, and can proceed to enjoy the relationship without this cloud over your head.

Either as friends only, FWBs, or something more. But at least all on the same page here. If your hope is to someday be in a triad... then you could practice having these kinds of talks and sharpen your communication skills. Have to start somewhere sooner or later.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-31-2013 at 06:31 PM.
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  #14  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:30 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Originally Posted by Drummerboy74 View Post
All of these points are very valid. Makes sense. To answer one question though - there would be no relationship other than with BOTH my hubby and I together. It would be a triad of sorts, if it were to ever go anywhere (not a V type relationship). No emotional relationship for either of us separately outside our marriage. That is something I know we would both agree on. And I agree that it is way too early to speak with this young man about any of this. My hubby and I would def talk first.
A lot of people want what you want. And there is nothing wrong with that at all. But... it is freakin' hard and full of pitfalls. (Ethical non-monogamy is full of pitfalls in general.) Amble about this forum - there is lots and lots of threads on various aspects of triads. And while there will be some differences because you are all gay men, the general points on unicorn hunting and couple privilege still generally apply. Do tag searches for both here. Lots to read!

I also find Solo Poly blog interesting - http://solopoly.net/. You do not need to agree with her point of view to get information out of her posts. She does a better job than most of explaining the implications of couple privilege and the 'escalator' in relationship.

There are some books that may be useful to you. I like both the "Ethical Slut' (authors name is escaping me) and "Opening Up" by Tristan Taortina. Both are on Amazon and neither are exclusively poly focused. 'Opening Up' in particular describes a bunch of different ways to be ethically non-monogamous.

Good luck!
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  #15  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:35 PM
Drummerboy74 Drummerboy74 is offline
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I def want to talk with my hubby about this, no question. I know he feels this way because he has said in the past that he does not want a boyfriend or a 3-person relationship. This has been stated. However it's a catch 22 in a way. Total monogamy is not ever going to happen. That's a fact. So threesomes will comtinue, and chances are that at some point feelings will develop again (with someone else). So it's kind of a lose-lose situation in some ways. I am not overly interested in casual sex. I find it cold and unfulfilling. But maybe that's the way it should be with us.
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  #16  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:44 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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Quote:
I def want to talk with my hubby about this, no question.
Good.

If these are the limits you have to work within:


Quote:
He has said in the past that he does not want a boyfriend or a 3-person relationship.
Quote:
I am not overly interested in casual sex. I find it cold and unfulfilling.
Then...

1) Could stay monogamous and stop engaging in "lose lose" behavior.

2) Or open so he has casual sex elsewhere and you do not.

3) Or open so you have meaningful BF elsewhere and he does not.

4) Or both 2 and 3.

I'm sure it is hard to feel and process, but the behaviors are pretty straight up. Talk to him.

Hang in there.
Galagirl
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  #17  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:54 PM
Drummerboy74 Drummerboy74 is offline
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Thank you all. Your responses have been awesome and have helped a lot. One other thing to mention -- this desired-after "triad" of sorts wouldn't really be a true full-time relationship. At least not for quite a while. We both have busy lives and family and friends we see often, events, holidays, etc. This would almost be a continuation of what it is now - with maybe the added knowledge that it is "something" - not just a trick we have over sometimes. Maybe I should stop trying to find a label for it? Ha.

Oh, and I DID just buy Opening Up on audiobook, and Ethical Slut through Amazon. Ha. :-).
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  #18  
Old 11-01-2013, 03:50 AM
london london is offline
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You need to start thinking about the other person. So far, you want them to have sex with you both, stop their feelings from going too far and plough the lines in your marriage. What about them? What can you offer them? You say you don't like casual sex but any sort of romantic attachment s forbidden in your relationship. Doesn't that automatically make the sex casual? You have feelings for this guy that or hubby doesn't. Why can't you acknowledge that you are individuals that feel differently so a blanket ruling isn't going to work very effectively? What makes sense to me is you carry on as you are with some progression of the relationship with you and the other guy. Progression that reflects your feelings for him.
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  #19  
Old 11-08-2013, 05:00 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummerboy74 View Post
My best bet at the point is to prob just see how it goes from here on out, naturally and organically. Thoughts?
I'm going to go against the general grain of responses here and say that, at this point, this is what I would do.

You go on to say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummerboy74 View Post
One other thing to mention -- this desired-after "triad" of sorts wouldn't really be a true full-time relationship. ... This would almost be a continuation of what it is now - with maybe the added knowledge that it is "something" - not just a trick we have over sometimes. Maybe I should stop trying to find a label for it?
I know the poly mantra is "Communicate, communicate, communicate." but I have never understood the need to determine ahead of time what the "goals" of a relationship are - what it is "supposed to look like" down the road.

If the three of you are enjoying yourselves and appreciating what you have now...then why try to shape it into something different? Or label and define it? It is what it is.

Sure, deeper feelings MAY develop over time...or one of the three of you may decide that you are no longer happy participating in this three-way thing the way you are now...

*****

On another note - I agree with opal here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
I have to disagree with Mags here. I don't consider all casual, FWB, NSA etc. sex to be swinging. I don't consider all sex where an emotional component is not wanted to be swinging. Open relationships, swinging, casual sex, NSA, FWB can all be subsets of ethical non-monogamy. Swinging to me is more of a subculture of ethical non-monogamy, one that often does emphasize physical and friendly connections over emotional and romantic connections. ...Also swinging tends to be rather hetero-centric, if not outright homophobic.
Not all relationships have to be deep and growing deeper. For me it is possible to have "casual sex" with my friends. We do have a "relationship" - that of friendship. (As opposed to say, random sex with anonymous strangers or one-night-stands - not all "casual sex" is the same.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
It is difficult to control who falls in love with who, especially if there is cuddling, going out on activities together, getting to know each other. That is indeed a recipe for falling in love. It's generally not possible to control feelings. We feel what we feel.
This may be specific to the individual - for me these are activities that are a recipe for creating bonds between people...but not necessarily romantic bonds (even if you throw sex into the list). Maybe it is because I am NOT someone who "falls in love" easily (it's happened exactly twice for me), or maybe my definition of "love" is much more narrow. Maybe it's because my "friendships" are all very close (I don't have "casual" friends - I call those "acquaintances") and share a lot of qualities that people associate with "love."

**********

Just an alternative perspective...

Jane("If-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it")Q
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Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (together 21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (together 3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs on this site:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
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  #20  
Old 11-22-2013, 11:35 PM
Drummerboy74 Drummerboy74 is offline
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Just wanted to post a quick update of this situation. Our new friend spent the entire weekend here with us last weekend, and the three of us get along really, really well. Went to see a hockey game on Sun, stayed over Sat & Sun nights, and went to work from here on Mon morning. We are gonna see him again for a couple nights in two weeks, and prob late Dec as well -- and we are going away together for a weekend in Jan to a ski area. We all "group text" pretty much every day. He has told us that he def has feelings for us. But I still think my hubby is either hesitant or even mostly against the idea of a triad. I DO know that he likes him, and is absolutely attracted to him. I think he's just a bit more "traditional" than I am. So I still don't know where this is going, but it's been pretty damn enjoyable so far. Thoughts?
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